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Discussion of Angel 11.09 - Released 9/27/17 (Dark Horse)

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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Sineya
#1
Illyria tries to transport herself and Angel back to the present when it becomes clear that changing the past is perhaps not the solution to the future. But she is having difficulty convincing Angel that he should not, and cannot, fix the past . . .

Source: Dark Horse
 
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#2
Amazed to say that I really enjoyed this issue. Finally feels like we're moving towards something. It's written as thought Angel is going to stop his own siring, but Fred/Illyria want to stop him. Of course he'll still be sired because the repercussions of his not being sired would be catastrophic for the verse, but I still like that it 'might' happen
 

Mrs Gordo

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Black Thorn
#3
So any apocalypses on the horizon for Angel?
 
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#4
So any apocalypses on the horizon for Angel?
It definitely feels like it's building to something big in S11, but it's been a weird season. Angel was haunted by dreams of bugs (beetles) and flowers and he's been jumping through portals to visit his own past. He met Angelus and Darla and was talking about going back to stop himself being sired. There is also a slim chance that he could go back to stop the curse, or change the 'perfect moment' clause.
 

Mrs Gordo

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Black Thorn
#5
There is also a slim chance that he could go back to stop the curse, or change the 'perfect moment' clause.
SHUUUUUUTTT UPPP! Don't tease me like this!

But this would have ridiculous ripple affects to present day Buffyverse. That would have meant no Angelus in Season 2, no acathala, no Buffy going to LA, Jenny alive? or maybe she never goes to Sunnydale?, my mind would be blown. I actually bought this volume but I'm trying to finish ATF (I know... I'm super behind - LOL.)
 
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#6
SHUUUUUUTTT UPPP! Don't tease me like this!

But this would have ridiculous ripple affects to present day Buffyverse. That would have meant no Angelus in Season 2, no acathala, no Buffy going to LA, Jenny alive? or maybe she never goes to Sunnydale?, my mind would be blown. I actually bought this volume but I'm trying to finish ATF (I know... I'm super behind - LOL.)
Lol, honestly I have no clue what is going on in the Angel comic this season. It's either far too clever for me to follow or it's a total mess, I can't figure it out. It's either building to something, which is why Faith was taken off the title, or it's going to be a damp squib and all this time travel will change nothing
 

Grace

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#7
I liked this issue too, @Priceless. It actually went somewhere I wasn't expecting at the end. I'm interested to see what happens next.
 
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Sineya
#9
Remember in "Time Bomb", Illyria beheaded Angel and staked Spike but it all reset itself. In "Dead Things", the Rwasundi demons created a temporal shift that convinced Buffy she had killed Katrina but she hadn't. IWRY is a story of a day that got wiped out of existence for everyone but Angel. Time travel does not seem to create the paradoxes that it does on other shows - everything gets reset and goes back the way it was. I think this season will be a story of a failed attempt by Angel to change his past but there could be an interesting wrinkle like Buffy suddenly remembers the events of IWRY. That could throw a wrench into the well-oiled Spuffy machine.
 

Grace

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#10
Do you think Angel is going to change anything about his past?
I doubt anything that exciting will happen. Angel and Fred/Illyria will screw something up but it won't be on purpose. I do hope Angel gets some sort of new insight on his human life as Liam and his relationship with his father in the next issue.

I think this season will be a story of a failed attempt by Angel to change his past but there could be an interesting wrinkle like Buffy suddenly remembers the events of IWRY. That could throw a wrench into the well-oiled Spuffy machine.
While this would be awesome from my perspective, I think they specifically sent Angel on a time-travel adventure so they wouldn't have to worry about the two books lining up in any way. So I think it's unlikely there will be any crossover, sadly.

I would like to be proven wrong on all of this and have some sort of big development come out in the last few issues, but I think it'll end up being a damp squib, to use @Priceless's term. :)
 

Mrs Gordo

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#11
I think this season will be a story of a failed attempt by Angel to change his past but there could be an interesting wrinkle like Buffy suddenly remembers the events of IWRY. That could throw a wrench into the well-oiled Spuffy machine.
This would be interesting! But at this point I'm pretty sure that Buffy will never remember IWRY events. Its been too long. I feel like its gone stagnet.
 
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#12
Remember in "Time Bomb", Illyria beheaded Angel and staked Spike but it all reset itself. In "Dead Things", the Rwasundi demons created a temporal shift that convinced Buffy she had killed Katrina but she hadn't. IWRY is a story of a day that got wiped out of existence for everyone but Angel. Time travel does not seem to create the paradoxes that it does on other shows - everything gets reset and goes back the way it was. I think this season will be a story of a failed attempt by Angel to change his past but there could be an interesting wrinkle like Buffy suddenly remembers the events of IWRY. That could throw a wrench into the well-oiled Spuffy machine.
I'd love something like this to happen. It'll move Angel's story forward and impact the whole verse, so it would have real depth of meaning. I'm going to be so mad if this season changes nothing
 

Grace

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#13
In retrospect, this last arc is really frustrating. I really hope we get some payoff tomorrow!

A few lines that stood out:
Illyria: "I have learned a lesson or two since we began traveling...so a little credit might be nice."

Fred: "Just think about how unnatural this is. You've lived through this. And here you are again. And then you met yourself. And traveled with yourself."
Angel: "That wasn't really--"
Fred: "I know, but it also was. What I'm saying is, I think time might protect itself. And it might not like what we're doing by going back and changing things. Big things."

Fred says bringing an extinct bird forward in time would be a huge paradox. "The chain of cause and effect would be completely broken. And I'm starting to think that's the problem. Not anything that happened a long time ago. Don't you see, Angel? It's the paradox that is the problem."

Angel: "If Angelus is never created, none of the rest can ever happen."
and later: "Listen, whatever else happens, I couldn't go home knowing I had the power to fix this and didn't. You must understand that, especially now."
 

thetopher

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#14
can't decide about this issue; finally Fred and Illyria are thinking about the repercussions of time travel, after 8 issues...
Angel trying to 'fix' his past is actually very him, even if it is really dumb. Without Angel coming into being Buffy dies in S1...

I hope we get SOMETHING out of this particular setting, and that the whole season is leading to something important. The apocalyptic aspect is still incredibly vague and jumbled. Hard to care if we don't understand the nature of the threat.
 
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Black Thorn
#15
So I've got this far into the Angel season 11 and it really is dreadful. Random visions of a bug and a flower so they decide to jump around in time to fix something that barely seems like a threat?

Has Angel been lobotomised at some point? I know he's got form for messing around with time and trying to fix things but he can't seriously expect to go back and save an entire species of demon and leave the present entirely unchanged barring stopping whatever the bugs and flowers plan on doing?

Then this episode he's trying to interfere with his siring or Darla's eating habits or whatever. He's been involved in so much that messing with his own timeline will do a ridiculous amount of damage.

Ilyria/Fred is very dull. I don't think anything has been achieved by restoring Fred at all. I liked her character on the show and that gave her death meaning, it was tragic and unstoppable. Now she's back so the death loses meaning and the writers don't seem to have any feel for the character at all. She's just there and then conviently a god when Angel is getting a beating.

Also why does Angel look like Clark Kent on steroids?
 
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