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Discussion of "Angel Aftermath #20" Release 22/04/2009 (IDW)

Buffyverse Fan

* The 28th *
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Sineya
Angel #20 Aftermath Discussion *SPOILERS*

Kelley Armstrong has taken MORE liberties with Angel, yay!

Apparently, Angel now has claws when he's vamped out, yay!


Gwen's kind of become a sociopath, yay!

The Powers That Be have an army of ANGELS, yay! For some reason, the Oracles didn't bother contacting this army when they were being killed back in the S1 finale, yay!
 

white avenger

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Unless Ms Armstrong is doing the art as well as the writing, the claws are the fault of the artist, and to be honest, the only time that I ever actually saw a vampire's hands was when Dru slit Kendra's throat. That seems pretty claw-like to me. Then again, maybe it's just that Angel has been so busy brooding lately that he hasn't had time for a manicure.

On the other hand, the were-leopard who seems to be able to control her shape shifting sounds more like Armstrong's werewolves than Oz and Nina.
 

Mumrik

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Unless Ms Armstrong is doing the art as well as the writing, the claws are the fault of the artist, and to be honest, the only time that I ever actually saw a vampire's hands was when Dru slit Kendra's throat. That seems pretty claw-like to me. Then again, maybe it's just that Angel has been so busy brooding lately that he hasn't had time for a manicure.

On the other hand, the were-leopard who seems to be able to control her shape shifting sounds more like Armstrong's werewolves than Oz and Nina.
She had normal hands with very sharp fingernails and they didn't look at all like Angel's do there which in fact reminded me of this (I did not do the bad cut out job):



- Definitely not of long fingernails.
Though yes, it could be just bad art and this might not be Armstrong's fault while the angels are.

Are there really really angels? Oh boy. Is she turning it into Supernatural?

The shapeshifting were-leopard I can accept. Maybe she is just a shape-shifter and not at all like Oz and Nina.
 

Angelic Slayer

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As you guys probably noticed, I merged this new thread with the existing one (just so that all the discussion threads are uniform), big thanks to Buffyverse Fan for getting the discussion started :)
 
B
Buffyverse Fan
No problem ;) . I just wish it wasn't a stream-of-consciousness critique on my part, lol. It's kinda sad, especially since I had nothing but praise for AtF's 17 Issue-run...

Buffyverse Fan

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^I'm pretty sure White Avenger's joking. Personally I'm just shocked at how bad Armstrong's Aftermath is, some of the stuff we're pointing out are just quibbles, but some of them are major plot issues.

Anyway, I think this lost scene explains the Angel Army Problem:

The lost scene from To Shanshu in L.A.:

[The Oracles of the Powers that Be in their realm]
MALE ORACLE: It seems that Vocah has been summoned by Wolfram & Hart to destroy our Champion, incapacitate his Seer, and kill his Associate.

FEMALE ORACLE: Should we contact the Army of Immortal Angels with enchanted weapons?

MALE ORACLE: Nahh, let's just see how it plays out.

FEMALE ORACLE: But he's on his way here right now, presumably to kill us.

MALE ORACLE: Yeah, but I have free Nights & Weekends on Verizon, so let's just hold off until 7pm.

FEMALE ORACLE: He'll surely be here before then, do you have any combat skills at all? Let's just call the Super-Powered Army of Angels.

MALE ORACLE: No, I have a plan, I'll call him a "lower being." His pride will be damaged and he will retreat.

FEMALE ORACLE: How is that plan better than calling the Immortal Army of Super-Powered Angels with Magic Weapons which burn through demon flesh?
 

Buffyverse Fan

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^That's probably because it's... horrible. The funny thing is, David Fury (Angel Showrunner) said that it's hard to write for Angel (the character), because Angel's such a complex guy, yet Kelley Armstrong (Aftermath) says it's EASY...
 

Frketson

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^That's probably because it's... horrible. The funny thing is, David Fury (Angel Showrunner) said that it's hard to write for Angel (the character), because Angel's such a complex guy, yet Kelley Armstrong (Aftermath) says it's EASY...
Thats because Kelley Armstrong is the greatest writer known to man.

All Hail!
 
white avenger
white avenger
No, she's good, but she'll never hold a candle to Edgar Rice Burroughs.

white avenger

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^That's probably because it's... horrible. The funny thing is, David Fury (Angel Showrunner) said that it's hard to write for Angel (the character), because Angel's such a complex guy, yet Kelley Armstrong (Aftermath) says it's EASY...
Well, if you notice, she's basically written every major character out of the series except for Angel himself, and that might be only because it's his series. Also, the entire support cast now, aside from Angel himself and Connor, are female, the same as the lead characters in Ms Armstrong's books, and, at the moment at least, a good part of the general storyline seems to be focused on the stories of Kate, Gwen, and the new were-leopard, Kaz.
 
B
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Buffyverse Fan

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Well, if you notice, she's basically written every major character out of the series except for Angel himself, and that might be only because it's his series.
heh, arguably, she's also written out "Angel." After all, Joss said that anyone who says Angel has or will atone before it's all over is "mad" and/or "stupid," so the bodybuilder with a soul that Armstrong's writing about isn't the same guy Joss, Greenwalt, Fury, Bell & Lynch wrote...

Also, the entire support cast now, aside from Angel himself and Connor, are female, the same as the lead characters in Ms Armstrong's books, and, at the moment at least, a good part of the general storyline seems to be focused on the stories of Kate, Gwen, and the new were-leopard, Kaz.
All of whom bear little physical or psychological resemblance to their TV/After the Fall incarnations.

It's really just amazing to me. Brian Lynch was pretty much an unknown, certainly not a "name" writer, and he did a great job with Joss' guidance. This Armstrong is churning out almost laughably bad writings and seems to have a bit of arrogance about it...
 

AndrewCrossett

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Dez the were-leopard is by far my favorite character in this comic... which says to me that Kelley Armstrong would be much better off writing comics about her own original characters rather than trying to figure out other people's.
 
white avenger
white avenger
Well, that's pretty much what she's doing, with an occasional guest appearence from the original cast.

white avenger

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Well, since Kelly Armstrong is pretty much creating her own whole new mythos, this would be a great time to get that Buffy/Spike reunion we've all, well, most of us, been wanting since Issue 1 of Season 8. (And if he wanted to introduce Illyria to the gang, that would be just fine, too. (Just imagine Xander, with his attraction to demon ladies of one sort or another, becoming love struck with a hell god)
 

Buffyverse Fan

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I don't know if IDW is allowed to introduced continuity-changing stories with non-Angel Buffy-characters, even if it's not canon, from a legal standpoint. And Spike reuniting with Buffy would definitely be a game-changer.

I think you're right about just about everyone wanting to see a reunion of some sort, given as far as we know, Buffy thinks Spike's still dust. I'm not a Spuffy, and it's still on the top of my list.
 

Tranquillity

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I think you're right about just about everyone wanting to see a reunion of some sort, given as far as we know, Buffy thinks Spike's still dust. I'm not a Spuffy, and it's still on the top of my list.
I know it's what I'm waiting for :)
I'm not enjoying Armstrong's arc of the story. I don't even get what's going on and I don't like it enough to re-read. This is so disappointing after the magnificence that was After the Fall. The really great Angel comic at the moment is John Byrne's Blood and Trenches - I'm a sucker for fanged four flashbacks and this one about Angel is excellent, canon-worthy stuff.
 
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I think, I've been nothing but staunch supporter of the current Angel-line of comics, but even I will be glad when this arc is over. The story isn't quite as bad as some people make it out to be, but it lacks a certain focus that makes

As for the Potentates, I can be okay with it. The PTB have always kept their cards close to themselves, and they look out for more than just LA (or even this world). They have all sorts of people working for them, some are Oracles, some have visions, others are Champions, and others well, they're winged soldiers from the netherworld, who have been off fighting evil elsewhere, until now.

As for Dez, she's brought on too strongly. If only she were a little weaker, little less important, little less new-writer-trying-to-make-her-own-character-cooler-then-all-the-original-characters, her storyline, which is okay, would be rated as okay, instead of lame.

I don't mind the cast has a significantly different line-up. In fact, I think it's interesting to see Angel surrounded by women this time. It used to be a real guy's show(, even though it was created by a feminist). I wonder if after the Gunn and Drusilla arc, when Angel comes back (hopefully penned by Brian) there'll be anything left of this team, or if we'll get back to the old team. (Is that even possible? Gunn might be restored, but Spike gets his own series, and Illyria moves on over. With Connor's newfound importance in the story, he couldn't be left out again.)
PS: Has anyone noticed that if the comics dip to the depths of Doublemeat and Season 4, we instantly begin to call canonicity into question, whereas when it was still a TV show, we grudgingly accepted it. (There's some very obvious reasons for this, but I still wanted to share this amusing little quirk about the fandom. :))
 

Buffyverse Fan

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^I never questioned the canonization of the TV show, I guess some others did. The problem with Aftermath's canon status is that Armstrong's the only one who claims it's canon. Joss has said many times that what he writes/maps out is what the real canon is--he mapped out every TV season, Season Eight and After the Fall, to our knowledge, he's never even seen and issue of Aftermath.

Armstrong also contradicted recent statements by Joss saying that Angel will NOT atone until it's all over. Since he mapped out After the Fall, obviously he doesn't think that its events square Angelus' evil away.

Joss says that the whole point of telling the Angel story is his quest for atonement and anyone who thinks Angel should atone before it's all over is "mad" (his exact word).
 

Buffy Summers

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I don't mind this issue that much, though I do think it's playing off the angel popularity thing. I don't like the Island of Dr. Moreau thing, though Dez could be an okay supporting character. We should have waited a while to see her backstory, though.
 
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