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Discussion of Angel and Faith 9.20 "Spike and Faith" - Released 03/27/13 (Dark Horse)

brinkster130

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Angel is ridiculously close to his goal of resurrecting Giles"”when he's suddenly sidetracked, forcing an unlikely partnership between Faith and Spike. Tensions run high as Slayer and vampire hit the mean streets of London . . .

***************

Overall, I thought the issue was intended to be funnier than I found it. I enjoyed Faith through out but wasn't particularly impressed by either Spike or Angel.

Pulling Giles' soul out of Angel seemed pretty easy in the end.

This was my favorite part:




So what did you all think??
 
B
Buffyverse Fan
My favorite scene too!

Kean

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Personally, I found it incredibly misogynistic.

Spike coming on to every female in sight was ridiculous and his "nice guy" rant about Buffy was appalling.

Angel's "thank you" was disgusting.

Plus, I felt removing Giles' soul was far too easy.

Ultimately a very disappointing issue at the end of a good arc.
 
janas
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brinkster130

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Personally, I found it incredibly misogynistic.

Spike coming on to every female in sight was ridiculous and his "nice guy" rant about Buffy was appalling.

Angel's "thank you" was disgusting.

Plus, I felt removing Giles' soul was far too easy.

Ultimately a very disappointing issue at the end of a good arc.
Seriously. I don't see how using Harmony for sex AGAIN is in any way Spike moving on or getting on his own path. I didn't think Spike was really out of character (like a lot of the internet did) but I don't think it was necessary for the writers to go down the Harmony path...

I was disappointed with how easy (and problem free) removing Giles' soul was too... Which is sad, because that should have been the main part of this issue instead it got thrown on the back burner for horny Spike and pimp Angel.

Faith was by far the best thing about this issue.
 
janas
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Kean

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Seriously. I don't see how using Harmony for sex AGAIN is in any way Spike moving on or getting on his own path. I didn't think Spike was really out of character (like a lot of the internet did) but I don't think it was necessary for the writers to go down the Harmony path...
Myself and [MENTION=6332]Lyri[/MENTION] talked about this too and while we couldn't say it felt completely in character, it didn't feel out of character either. Maybe it juts feels played out? I really don't want to still be seeing this stuff in the verse. I thought we'd dealt with the Harmony situation in S5 of Angel.

I was disappointed with how easy (and problem free) removing Giles' soul was too... Which is sad, because that should have been the main part of this issue instead it got thrown on the back burner for horny Spike and pimp Angel.
Very much agreed. I feel like there has been a lot of opportunities in this season to pursue interesting stories and we keep getting the easy, lazy, boring options instead.
 

brinkster130

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Myself and [MENTION=6332]Lyri[/MENTION] talked about this too and while we couldn't say it felt completely in character, it didn't feel out of character either. Maybe it juts feels played out? I really don't want to still be seeing this stuff in the verse. I thought we'd dealt with the Harmony situation in S5 of Angel.
Yeah. We did deal with it in S5 - I'm not entirely sure what happened to all that. My thinking (and this could be crazy talk) is that Spike somehow feels that sleeping with Harmony couldn't be as big a betrayal to Buffy (or his feelings) as hooking up with someone new would be. That would explain him turning down Morgan but having zero problem with Harm. I guess rebound sex isn't that shocking but having Angel and Spike use Harmony was low. Our "champions" should be behaving better.
 

Hale Caesar

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I thought the ending was a little awkward, this entire series has been very strong in my opinion and this is probably the only disappointing issue I've read. I haven't read anything on the final five issues, but i'm excited to see where things go, I recall them saying they won't be continuing Angel and Faith during Season 10, so ending will be interesting
 

Mischlings

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I recall them saying they won't be continuing Angel and Faith during Season 10, so ending will be interesting
I'd like to know when and where that was said. Not that I don't believe you, I just know that Christos Gage wouldn't give me a solid answer when I asked if he was going to continue writing the same characters or not for the next season.

As for the issue itself, I wasn't overly impressed, but I'm going to withhold my real judgment on it for a little while, probably the end of the season. But the humor didn't all land like I thought it was going to, which was a minor issue (I apologize for the pun)
 

Hale Caesar

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I'd like to know when and where that was said. Not that I don't believe you, I just know that Christos Gage wouldn't give me a solid answer when I asked if he was going to continue writing the same characters or not for the next season.

As for the issue itself, I wasn't overly impressed, but I'm going to withhold my real judgment on it for a little while, probably the end of the season. But the humor didn't all land like I thought it was going to, which was a minor issue (I apologize for the pun)
To be honest I have no idea where I read that, it was a while ago and I didn't save the link
 

janas

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I wanted to feel more inner dialogue between Angel-Giles-Angelus, and frankly that "thank you" Angel's I found it OOC. I mean, it was just released from the soul of Giles and what did he do? sends the number of Harmony at Spike? when ever he's interested in sexual well-being of Spike? from when Angel thinks that a f **ed randomly is can solve problems? I've never seen Angel that applies this principle to himself. Is one of the things I like about him, that is able to resist to lows instinctual stimuli. I always thought it was a point of strength, not a weakness, as they say his enemies, who speak of self-flagellation, why do not you leave the instincts get the win on him.

To me it seemed that the parties were reversed, it is usually Spike tells Angel "which must have more fun"
 

VisionGirl

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Myself and [MENTION=6332]Lyri[/MENTION] talked about this too and while we couldn't say it felt completely in character, it didn't feel out of character either. Maybe it juts feels played out? I really don't want to still be seeing this stuff in the verse. I thought we'd dealt with the Harmony situation in S5 of Angel.


Very much agreed. I feel like there has been a lot of opportunities in this season to pursue interesting stories and we keep getting the easy, lazy, boring options instead.
That's exactly how I felt about this issue. Even the Faith/Spike interaction. It's like, we did that already in season 7!!

Yeah. We did deal with it in S5 - I'm not entirely sure what happened to all that. My thinking (and this could be crazy talk) is that Spike somehow feels that sleeping with Harmony couldn't be as big a betrayal to Buffy (or his feelings) as hooking up with someone new would be. That would explain him turning down Morgan but having zero problem with Harm. I guess rebound sex isn't that shocking but having Angel and Spike use Harmony was low. Our "champions" should be behaving better.
Plus, she's a soul-less vampire, so no risk of her falling in love with Spike.

As far as the humor, honestly this title and the entire season 9 has lacked in that department IMO. Say what you will about Season 8, they nailed the humour FTMP and the pop culture references. I think these new writers are so busy concentrating on the storyline and getting the characters' "voices" correct that the wit has all but disappeared.

And really disappointed about how easy it was to pull out Giles' soul. Very anticlimactic. It made me wonder if they were truly successful. He's faked it before (Angel/Angelus in Angel season 4).
 
brinkster130
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sk

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And really disappointed about how easy it was to pull out Giles' soul. Very anticlimactic. It made me wonder if they were truly successful. He's faked it before (Angel/Angelus in Angel season 4).
That was my first reaction also actually, that he faked it.
But now, when nothing happened with it, I started to think that it probably worked anyway.
The Harmony thing was kinda weird though... so who knows. ;)

/SK
 

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That was my first reaction also actually, that he faked it.
But now, when nothing happened with it, I started to think that it probably worked anyway.
The Harmony thing was kinda weird though... so who knows. ;)

/SK
I think that's the main problem here. It was definitely an anticlimactic issue, but that's because all of the juicy twists they could have taken would have been a rehash of Angel Season 4. An inner-struggle between Angel, Angelus, and Giles would basically be a rerun of the Angel, Angelus, and Faith one from the Jasmine Arc. Also, Angelus faking out Spike would have been an almost exact redo of Cordelia!Jasmine letting Angelus go.
 

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I'm getting caught up on A&F, and I really enjoyed this issue. I kinda liked Spike, I actually found him funny and I've always liked him more away from Buffy.

Plus the sex with Harmony is exactly what I though his character would be like away from Buffy. Very in his character.

For the overall story, getting Giles soul out was very very anti-climactic.
 

Mrs Gordo

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I really like this issue. Sure I don't buy for one second that the real Angel would give Spike Harmony's number but I can look past that. I love that Spike is finally admitting to Angel that he is jealous of him for being able to find a way to exist outside of Buffy. Spike things he has moved on but Angel tells him "When I do I'll let you know." So it makes me happy to know that Buffy is still in Angel's heart.

I think Spike looks a LOT like AtS Season 5 Spike and for that reason sleeping with Harm is perfectly in character.

I had forgotten how much I liked this issue.
 
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