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Discussion of Angel & Faith 10.21 "A Tale of Two Families, Part I" - Released 12/2/15

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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Writer: Victor Gischler
Penciller: Will Conrad

Attacks in London’s Magic Town by Archaeus and Drusilla’s vampires reach a fever pitch, putting Angel and Faith back on their heels. In an attempt to turn the tables on the Big Bads, Faith seeks their new hideout and Angel walks into a trap—on purpose!


Source: Wikipedia
 

gite63

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WTF!!!! Inspector Brandt is (or has just been turned) a f****** VAMPIRE!!!!
ANGELUS is back!!!!!

Full of surprises this one. I don't know if Angelus is really back, or if he is just pretending (part of Faith's plan); he practically threw himself in Archaeus' hands...

And Drusilla, again, was scolded by her daddy - but it seems she learned her lesson and is nearer to put her hands on the statue.

Faith mentioned again how hurt she got after been ditched by Giles. It's what the man does, people should get used to it by now.

The Magnificent Archaeus has not given up having Spike in the family; I think another crossover is in the way - and if Angel isn't pretending, S11 may have the The Whirlwind Family back... :eek:
 
And Angel saying that he "spent most his life taking things all on myself and then I had a teammate", and then Faith left, and he was "flying solo again". That's a total dismiss of all Fang Gang incarnations, I think.
 

thetopher

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I've commented on other boards but after reading this issue I thought I'd comment here first:

The talking shop of stagagy is actually better handled here than over on Buffy and I still like that this final arc will focus on Angel and Faith rather than the whole extended team.
Also their plan/reacting to the bad guys made sense.

Real shame about Brandt because I actually liked him. Presumably he's 'just' been turned so as to lure Angel into a trap? Wonder how Faith will react?

I liked Angel and Faith conversation/heart to heart. I think after the whole Twilight disaster he depended on her more than anyone he ever had before, so her up and leaving shook him up more than he thought.
AI ended up with Wesley and Cordelia (and Doyle) being dead, LA in Hell (anf then not) Fred also dead, Gunn turned into a vampire and Connor losing his 'new' family, no wonder Angel doesn't view it as a resounding success in terms of not being alone.

Faith's right, it was selfish of her to leave, but it was also the right thing for her to do. She spread herself too thin in S9 for everybody but herself and got nothing to show for it. Giles left, her slayers left, Nadire almost died. A hefty personal cost.

The Archeaus/Drusilla relationship is beginning to irritate me. I get it, she's lost, wants a family (always has) and now she's enslaved to her great granddad. It's a bit of a one-note relationship.

As for Angelus' return- possible scam given how easy it happened and how it was highlighted by Angel himself how much he didn't want this to happen. I think he's faking. Or it'll be a dramatic way to up the stakes for the final clash, but I'm betting not.
It's looking like Faith vs. Dru (please can somebody stake Dru! She just casually slaughtered some people to get her hands on a statue) and Angel/Koh/Illyria vs. Archeaus for the showdown.

Faith mentioned again how hurt she got after been ditched by Giles. It's what the man does, people should get used to it by now.

You still think Giles needed a character reboot? Because imo Lil' Giles is way more selfish than actual Giles because he's a self-absorbed teen.
Actual Giles was all round better I think.
 

gite63

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Also their plan/reacting to the bad guys made sense.

As for Angelus' return- possible scam given how easy it happened and how it was highlighted by Angel himself how much he didn't want this to happen. I think he's faking.

The thing is that this plan has been already tried twice – and failed. The first time they were bold, but they didn't know that Archaeus could overpower Spike; the second time, it was stupid to bring Angel to the fight, since they knew what could happen.

This time... is Angel really pretending? If so, suddenly, he is able not only to resist the control, but he is also capable to trick a powerful demon Lord into thinking that he isn't. If the plan is to let Angel be controlled and later to snap him out of it with another chit chat, I believe is too risk...

no wonder Angel doesn't view it as a resounding success in terms of not being alone.

But for me, Angel sounded like he was saying that he all alone until he teamed with Faith.

Because imo Lil' Giles is way more selfish than actual Giles because he's a self-absorbed teen.

Well, now he has an excuse... he is a self-absorbed teen.
 

thetopher

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The thing is that this plan has been already tried twice – and failed. The first time they were bold, but they didn't know that Archaeus could overpower Spike; the second time, it was stupid to bring Angel to the fight, since they knew what could happen.

Team AI is not the Scoobies, maybe they have tricks that the Scoobies don't. Besides, in SF they really didn't know to the extent of what they were dealing with.
Here Angel has a badass slayer, Koh, Fred/Illyria, the aunts, Alistair- lots of untapped resources to call upon.

I think Angel's 'we're a team' was meant to indicate that he was going to use ALL their resources to take down the badguys, not just wander in alone. It's too sloppy otherwise.

This time... is Angel really pretending? If so, suddenly, he is able not only to resist the control, but he is also capable to trick a powerful demon Lord into thinking that he isn't.

I think Archeaus is powerful but also incredibly overconfident in his own abilities (he failed at control with Spike AND Angel and he still thinks 'it'll be different this time' with Angelus) so yeah, I don't think he's gonna be hard to trick. I'll bet Angel and co have something up their collective sleeve.

But for me, Angel sounded like he was saying that he all alone until he teamed with Faith.

Not at all. Out of that 100+ years he was mostly alone, and then there was Buffy for a few years (which didn't end well for him) and then AI for 5 years (which, again, Cordy, Wes and Doyle all ended up dead). That's not even a decade in a century.

I just think Angel views Faith as an equal, a partner, who had his back when nobody else did and when he was at his lowest point. He had nothing else but her (not even Whistler, his one-time mentor) and then she was gone. I think it was a shock. Angle hasn't had anyone leave (except dying), he's always the one that left.

Well, now he has an excuse... he is a self-absorbed teen.

I didn't consider adult Giles self-absorbed at all, that wasn't his 'problem' as a character. His problem was that he was irrelevent now all the Scoobies (especially Buffy) had grown up. So Joss killed him off and they brought him back as child-Giles. Same but different, forfilling a different role.
 

vellavu

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I liked Angel and Faith conversation/heart to heart. I think after the whole Twilight disaster he depended on her more than anyone he ever had before, so her up and leaving shook him up more than he thought.
Yes. But the way Faith was talking (again) like Victor Gischler. The content was right but the voice is not.

The Archeaus/Drusilla relationship is beginning to irritate me. I get it, she's lost, wants a family (always has) and now she's enslaved to her great granddad. It's a bit of a one-note relationship.
My complaint is that the writers just can't make up their minds on whether Drusilla is insane or not. She speaks long logical coherent sentences towards Niles, reports like a proper minion in front of her master, but only talks cryptic and crazy towards Angel?
Most of her speeches are less insane than S9 sane Drusilla's.

The Magnificent Archaeus has not given up having Spike in the family; I think another crossover is in the way - and if Angel isn't pretending, S11 may have the The Whirlwind Family back... :eek:
Maybe it was Drusilla who first asked for Spike's return.
If the Whirlwind Family is indeed coming back, then my condolences to Darla: already died 4 times, now even more?:(
 

thetopher

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Yes. But the way Faith was talking (again) like Victor Gischler. The content was right but the voice is not.

Agree. Faith's 'voice' is actually really easy to get right (judging by all the fan-fics I've read) and I didn't feel it this issue. I liked the 'what' but not the 'how'.
Still, its all not as artlessly done as what their doing over on Buffy- at least they talk like normal people and don't info-dump.

My complaint is that the writers just can't make up their minds on whether Drusilla is insane or not.

They just can't write her well unfortunately. 'Crazy' is hard to get right without sounding really silly/phony. I think VG is trying to make her too coherant to avoid people not taking Dru seriously.
Although you could make an arguement that Archeaus' presence in Dru's mind would make her saner/more focused, which she would lose when being around Angel.
 

Samuel Reyes

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Agree. Faith's 'voice' is actually really easy to get right (judging by all the fan-fics I've read) and I didn't feel it this issue. I liked the 'what' but not the 'how'.

Agree with this.

I'm calling it right now: Angel didn't really turn back into Angelus. They seemed far too expectant of it to happen for them to actually let it happen.
 

gite63

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I'm calling it right now: Angel didn't really turn back into Angelus. They seemed far too expectant of it to happen for them to actually let it happen.

But then they seemed far too confident that Angel would be able to resist; and if the plan was to pretend to be controlled, I still think that it's hard to swallow that Archaeus can be fooled - he certainly feels his children. There's a missing piece in this plan that we don't know yet.
 
Samuel Reyes
Samuel Reyes
Hence the cliffhanger!

Buffy Summers

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Parker and Tricia are becoming as annoying as Billy TVS...almost.

And that Angel outburst at Faith seemed way out of character and out of line, even if it ended up okay.

And I was sad that Brandt turned out to be a vamp :( And I hate to say that it seems pretty obvious that Angel is faking lol, but I really hope he's not so it's an actual surprise lol
 
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