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Discussion of Angel & Faith 10.22 "A Tale of Two Families, Part II" - Released 1/06/16 (Dark Horse)

Xin Rong

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Not wanting to get involved in a Bangel Vs Spuffy debate, but having a character from one comic appearing in the official canonnical comics does not make the comic that said character emanates from canon, as we saw with the weird giant fish in IDW's Angel - and also with the post-Joss involvement IDW comics
 
gite63
gite63
"the weird giant fish" - his name is Betta George! I like him! ;)

thetopher

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My understanding is that the writers won't say if the IDW stuff is canon either. It's in limbo- not referred to but existing and not being contradicted by them. Willow showed up in IDW and found out Spike was alive. Is that how Buffy found out? Did Andrew tell her after all?
We don't know and will probably never know. Because the writers won't commit one way or another.
Which is exactly what they're doing in this case with S:ITL. Thanks James for telling us this vital Spike story...
 
Spanky
Spanky
I thought they said the IDW stuff was not canon.

Spanky

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The IDW stuff was the giant talking fish, right? Beta Bill or something?
 

thetopher

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The IDW stuff was the giant talking fish, right? Beta Bill or something?
Isn't that guy off Thor? Beta Ray Bill? The telepathic fish is...something else. o_O

With IDW- they had the bug-ship introduced right? And the bug ship is a part of S8/9? So- canon but never mentioned again or something? Quite frankly the whole thing is a mess- which is why I never liked Dylan showing up in the first place to mess with personal canon. I'm a contiuity nazi/stickler type.
 
Spanky
Spanky
Ah! It was betta george

gite63

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Yes, I've always said that I hated Spuffy. I've made no secret of that fact.
You however, acussed me of being a Bangel and a Spike-hater in your very first post to me. You were wrong.
For the first time, of the multiple times you said I (and others) was wrong, you are right... sorry, you are not a Bangel, I take that back. :D

It is clear that they had some sort of co-ordinated plan, therefore they must've co-ordinated. That's logic.
Surely, they co-ordinated the plan counting that it would work. I don't see any evidence that they co-ordinated it if Angel was really taken by Archaeus. Not by reading this:





Unless in the next issue, Faith and Angel tells us what they would do if "Angelus" was back (besides running away in terror), there was no plan whatsoever. Did they intended to use Illyria, even if it meant distress Fred a great deal?

We get it, you don't like the storyline (you must be a Fangel-hater then...sarc/) but it does make a sort of sense- dramatically speaking.
I just didn't see any great story told here, and I didn't like that Archaeus now is stupid. And then I did notice Faith's rush to save Nadira...
 

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Surely, they co-ordinated the plan counting that it would work. I don't see any evidence that they co-ordinated it if Angel was really taken by Archaeus.
Unless in the next issue, Faith and Angel tells us what they would do if "Angelus" was back (besides running away in terror), there was no plan whatsoever.
We saw that Angel (pretending) got Dru to throw all her forces at Faith and the team. Then we saw that Faith was stalling (that's why she challenged Drusilla one-on-one) to give Angel time to find/rescue Nadira. We saw that Faith was throwing the sword fight Dru's way. We saw that Faith was specifically expecting a text from Angel. We saw that- when she got that text- she went into overdrive and kicked ass.

That all takes planning/coordination. Angel and Nadira run one way, Faith and the others run the other. Meet up later. It was planned- it was obviously planned.
Just, y'know, it takes a little thinking to realize it...;)
 

gite63

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That all takes planning/coordination. Angel and Nadira run one way, Faith and the others run the other. Meet up later. It was planned- it was obviously planned.
Just, y'know, it takes a little thinking to realize it...
You do like to say that people are dumb and slow, don't you? That's personal.

So I'll do the same: you still haven't got what I'm saying... Just, y'know, it takes a little thinking to realize it...

Which was the plan IF ANGEL HAD FALLING UNDER Archaeus's control? Faith wanted to rescue Nadira at any cost because she felt guilty, I think she didn't think about the consequences if her little plan (Angel pretending that he was evil) hadn't work.
 
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thetopher

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You do like to say that people are dumb and slow, don't you? That's personal.
I never said anything of the sort, just that sometimes a person as to think about what they see/read and look beyond the obvious. Implying something isn't name calling.
And gee, I have to say, I think you just get way sensitive during discussions, which is odd considering all the name-calling that you like to do.

So I'll do the same: you still haven't got what I'm saying
Oh I do, I just think you're wrong. disagree! ;)
Plans often involve calculated risk. Trusting yourself, trusting your teammates. I could point out numerous times on the show where Buffy and co did this with no idea if they would succeed. But there really wouldn't be any point since you'd simply ignore it anyway.
 
Xin Rong
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Xin Rong

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I never said anything of the sort, just that sometimes a person as to think about what they see/read and look beyond the obvious. Implying something isn't name calling.
And gee, I have to say, I think you just get way sensitive during discussions, which is odd considering all the name-calling that you like to do.



Oh I do, I just think you're wrong. disagree! ;)
Plans often involve calculated risk. Trusting yourself, trusting your teammates. I could point out numerous times on the show where Buffy and co did this with no idea if they would succeed. But there really wouldn't be any point since you'd simply ignore it anyway.
I agree, there are countless examples of Buffy conducting a similar modus operandi

Graduation Day Part 2 - Faith's knife being enough to lure the mayor towards a library turned 'bomb' springs to mind, as does Season 7 with the whole amulet, she had no idea whether it would work. In Season 5, she made a calculated risk jumping of the tower, realistically, she didn't really know whether the portal would accept her sacrifice, her plan was based predominantly on fortunate phrasing of a series of random characters/spirits. Season 7, again, with trusting Spike not to kill the potentials despite the trigger being active, yet another pertinent example.
 

gite63

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I agree, there are countless examples of Buffy conducting a similar modus operandi

Graduation Day Part 2 - Faith's knife being enough to lure the mayor towards a library turned 'bomb' springs to mind, as does Season 7 with the whole amulet, she had no idea whether it would work. In Season 5, she made a calculated risk jumping of the tower, realistically, she didn't really know whether the portal would accept her sacrifice, her plan was based predominantly on fortunate phrasing of a series of random characters/spirits. Season 7, again, with trusting Spike not to kill the potentials despite the trigger being active, yet another pertinent example.
Nothing related to Faith rushing Angel to act, risking his mental state, guided by her guilty feelings towards Nadira. Buffy was saving the world, and in Spike's case, she trusted him and she was... right.
 

thetopher

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Cordelia and Angel in 'Waiting In The Wings'- she wants to rush back to the room with possessing, passionate ghostswanting to make love and 'play out the scene' even though it could- technically- risk unleashing Angelus if they both lose control/'no more talking in that scene'.
Angel objects and then relents. Bad, evil, reckless Cordelia!

Or maybe she 'believed' in Angel. Depends if you're a Cangel or not I guess. ;)

Nothing related to Faith rushing Angel to act, risking his mental state, guided by her guilty feelings towards Nadira. Buffy was saving the world, and in Spike's case, she trusted him and she was... right.
So basically if Buffy does it then she's right but if Faith does it then she's reckless. Buffy beleiving in Spike is 'beautiful' because she was 'right', but Faith doing something similar and 'risking' Angel for herself is just her feeling selfish and guilty?
What a load of hypocritical, double standard crap.

Faith as least knew that Angel had- in the past- fought off Archaeus' control (because Angel told her), Buffy didn't know what was happening when they all first faced off against the guy and simply risked everybody's life by giving Spike an opening in the middle of a pitched battle. Buffy was the reckless one, not Faith.
 
Xin Rong
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They both were reckless, always had been reckless. Throughout the course of the series everyone behaved in a reckless manner doing things without 'knowing' for certain. There were so many leaps of faith (and logic) it bordered on ridiculous. So I don't know why they should alter their behaviour just because it's in a different medium.
 

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Calculated risk. Just like Buffy has done on countless occasions. Never said any different.

If you criticize Faitrh/Angel, you should definitly criticize Buffy/Spike, or in fact most Buffy plans...
 

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What a load of hypocritical, double standard crap.
:rolleyes:

All this anger because I said that Faithy was reckless. Apparently, we cannot say anything good about Spike, anything good about Spuffy (you admitted you are a "detester"), and also we cannot in any way say anything remotelly bad about Faith. Otherwise, we say just crap.
 
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thetopher

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All this anger because I said that Faithy was reckless.
Not anger, but your double standard is pretty transparent.

Apparently, we cannot say anything good about Spike
Nonsense. I say good things about Spike all the time.
Comic reviews- as one example.

anything good about Spuffy
In my opinion there isn't that much is good. Just 'meh', dull crap, or horrible.

(you admitted you are a "detester"
Yeah? big friggin deal. I detest Andrew and nobody says anything because it doesn't involve Spike or certain Spike-fans...
You're sounding more and more petulant as this goes on. Just so you know...

also we cannot in any way say anything remotelly bad about Faith.
Again nonsense, people have said bad things/crtiticism about Faith- legitimate ones too.
Examples:
https://www.buffy-boards.com/threads/a-scene-where-you-hate-your-favourite-characters.64440/

You're just sour because your arguements aren't really that well thought out, so other people call you out on them. It's an opinions/discussion board- these things will happen.
But you're still entitled to your opinion. Stop being so childish when somebody disagrees with you. :rolleyes:
 

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Nonsense. I say good things about Spike all the time.
Yeah, lately, I noticed that you have been saying a thing or other... interesting.

You're sounding more and more petulant as this goes on. Just so you know...
LOL

Again nonsense, people have said bad things/crtiticism about Faith- legitimate ones too.
Examples:
https://www.buffy-boards.com/threads/a-scene-where-you-hate-your-favourite-characters.64440/
I did read it - Faith was really trashed on this thread! :D And you hate Faith when she killed the professor! :eek: Thank goodness anybody said she was reckless.

You're just sour because your arguements aren't really that well thought out, so other people call you out on them. It's an opinions/discussion board- these things will happen.
But you're still entitled to your opinion. Stop being so childish when somebody disagrees with you.
Who is the person who always say (or used to say...) "you are wrong!", who is the person who always like to say "this is a load of crap" when someone has a different opinion? Who is the person who calls people stupid when the given opinion isn't the "right one"? Who is the person who got involved in several discussions in this board, with different people (5 at least, and I do remember Mr. Pole saying something about someone having "a head like a stone wall")?

Well, this person isn't me, for sure.
 

thetopher

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Yeah, lately, I noticed that you have been saying a thing or other... interesting.
I did read it - Faith was really trashed on this thread! :D And you hate Faith when she killed the professor!
Who is the person who always say (or used to say...) "you are wrong!", who is the person who always like to say "this is a load of crap" when someone has a different opinion? Who is the person who calls people stupid when the given opinion isn't the "right one"? Who is the person who got involved in several discussions in this board, with different people (5 at least, and I do remember Mr. Pole saying something about someone having "a head like a stone wall")?
Well, this person isn't me, for sure.
Yep, from all this you come across as perfectly reasonable. Not at all juvenile.

Since this back and forth is clearly not going to yield anything worthwhile then I respectfully suggest we don't respond to each others postings from now on. Probably be beeter for everybody all round.
 
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