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Discussion of Angel & Faith 9.01 "Live Through This"- Released 8/31/11 (Dark Horse)

Kean

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I just finished the issue and I have to say it was very good, although I thought the ending was a little clunky.

I'm not sure if people want to jump right in spoilers and all, or hold off? If you want spoilers, I'll write up a full review.

:)
 

Whirlwind

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I'm not sure if people want to jump right in spoilers and all, or hold off? If you want spoilers, I'll write up a full review.

I say do the review :)

I just read it too. Really liked it. It was nice to see Faith in a more central, mature role. There was also a returning character I was surprised to see again. All in all, I'd say the series is off to a great start.
 

Kean

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OK Guys, if you don't want to be spoiled don't read on. :)









Comic opens with the Giles flashback. he is fighting off a demon that is trying to use a little girl as its host. Giles can't kill it so instead he binds the demon to the little girl by sacrificing one of his greatest memories: the day he fell in love with Jenny. Having done that the demon is rendered dormant until Giles can kill it completely or until he dies. Ten guess for where this is going? So with Giles dead the demon is now back and looking to party. Enter Angel who has been reading Giles' watcher diaries. Having spent months essentially catatonic, this story shakes Angel back to reality and he and Faith go and try to stop the demon. Whilst they are fighting it some of its blood gets on Angel and he then takes on Giles' memory. This shakes Angel up a lot and looks shook afterwards. Having saved the girl he and Faith leave. Faith goes to a club and Angel retires back to Giles' apartment.


On the way to the club Faith encounters Nadira (who nearly stakes Faith in the process-very reminiscent of Bad Girls and the poor Deputy Mayor). The girls are friends and Faith has been trying to help the other slayers adjust to this new magicless world. Nadira tells Faith about how her cell was killed by this brother and sister duo Nash and Pearl. More to the point, she tells Faith how Twilight watched over Nash and Pearl as they slaughtered the slayers. Faith looks sick. Nadira tells Faith that her sole purpose in life is to kill Twilight. Faith continues to look sick.


Next we find Whistler in some pub (I'm assuming it is supposed to be in London too) and he is talking about the mess the world is in right now and how Angel ruined everything by not seeing Twilight through (i.e. not establishing the new Universe he and Buffy created). He says that he has always been about balance (Um...he has????) and that in order for the balance to be restored Angel has to be killed. It is then that we see he is talking to Nash and Pearl, who have just slaughted the entire bar. Neither they nor Whistler seems to care. They happily accept the challenge of taking Angel out.


Back at Giles's place Faith all but implores Angel to tell her that what Nadira said wasn't true. That it was a double...or cosplayer! (LOL) But Angel can't do that any looks like he is about to fall apart again. He says he can't remember that sistuation in question because Twilight took more and more control towards the end, but he goes on to say that whether he was in control or not he could have done more to fight it. Asked more questions about what he was doing. He concludes he has more blood on his hands than Angelus ever could.


Faith then says that it is good that Angel wants to continue Giles' work but he has to stop obsessing over every detail of his life if he wants to take his place. At this Angel is kind of taken aback. He insists that he could never take Giles' place. Instead he is going to bring Giles back to life.


The End.


What I liked:


The characterisation is on point.


The premise is brilliant and it fits Angel and Faith wonderfully. You just know there is going to be some great stories in this.


The art is fantastic.


Gage's script is great and there is some nice one liners.


What I don't like:


The continued wishy-washyness on A) Twilight's control of Angel and B) The level of responsibility he has for what happened. If feels like they are back tracking one minute and then rushing back in to say it is all his fault the next. They really need to pick one.


The Whistler bit makes very little to no sense and it basically has served to retcon his whole character. For a guy who seemed genuinely concerned with the horrible life Buffy had in front of her when she was called, he didn't give a hoot that a room full of people lay slaughtered around him. I'm getting extreme Skip vibes from him right now.



The conclusion Angel comes to about bring Giles back feels a bit like a curve ball and comes out of nowhere. It
 
Moscow Watcher
Moscow Watcher
Thank you very much for the recap and the review!
white avenger
white avenger
Every time that I hear Angel claim to have no memory of certain parts of his Twilight possession, I can't help but remember Xander's hyena possession. He claimed not to remember, too.
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Do a review!

I'm particularly interested in Angel's motivations to bring back Giles. I smell a lot of potential badness, because in Jossverse there are always consequences. Is Buffy's resurrection in season 6 mentioned?
 

Kean

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Do a review!

I'm particularly interested in Angel's motivations to bring back Giles. I smell a lot of potential badness, because in Jossverse there are always consequences. Is Buffy's resurrection in season 6 mentioned?

We get zero on motivation. Angel's intentions to bring Giles back are literally the last two lines of the issue. Also, nothing on Buffy S6 either.

I'm assuming next issue will cover the motivations because it literally comes out of NOWHERE!
 

Chosen Enemy

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SPOILER FOR THE REVIEW





The last part - why?? I mean, I love Giles, but bringing a character back to life AGAIN? I'm pretty sick of it. Can't somebody stay dead anymore?
 
white avenger
white avenger
I'm beginning to wonder when one of these resurectees is actually going to come back wrong (evil) Soulless Giles as the Season 9 Big Bad really has potential here. Just ANOTHER Angel screw up. He's getting good at that

Kean

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SPOILER FOR THE REVIEW





The last part - why?? I mean, I love Giles, but bringing a character back to life AGAIN? I'm pretty sick of it. Can't somebody stay dead anymore?

It doesn't give us anything in terms of motivation but personally I think gaining the memory of Giles' day with Jenny has led Angel to this conclusion. Hopefully next issue they will explain why Angel thinks this is the way to go.
 

Chosen Enemy

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It doesn't give us anything in terms of motivation but personally I think gaining the memory of Giles' day with Jenny has led Angel to this conclusion. Hopefully next issue they will explain why Angel thinks this is the way to go.

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me what reasons Angel might have. It's the act itself, why do it, script wise. It's really too much. I would love to bring back many dead characters, but that would be stupid.
 

Kean

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Honestly, it doesn't matter to me what reasons Angel might have. It's the act itself, why do it, script wise. It's really too much. I would love to bring back many dead characters, but that would be stupid.

Well personally, in this situation I think the motivation is key. I think that is what the story is going to be about this season. Angel doing this looks to be part of how he is (or isn't) dealing with what he did. I don't think he will succeed in his endeavour, I don't think it will get that far. It very much feels like the actions of a desperate man not in his right mind.

What I want to know is how Faith agrees to go along with this ridiculous idea? Angel may not be capable of levity right now, but Faith should no better.
 

Chosen Enemy

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It's an example of people hurt or affected by tragedy, not thinking straight. I understand Angel's need to redeem himself, and his will to fix what's broken. I'm talking script wise, we've had enough people being brought back to life, why more? I do think Angel should find a way to fix it. But not by this. It could have been an interesting story if the ending wasn't history repeated.
 
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The first idea that came to my mind is that Angel plans a time-travel and reload of the timeline. The last panel features a pic of child!Giles - it may be a clue. And, as we know, Dr. Who stopped by the windows of Giles' apartment at least once.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/MoscowWatcher/Misc2/Giles_DrWho.jpg

In "After the Fall" Angel has successfully pulled off the reload of the verse and managed to save the day. He did it by killing himself in the previous timeline.

He may think he can pull off something like that again.

Although, I admit, I can't imagine Angel's plan working. It could happen in Lynch's story, but Joss never lets characters off the hook.
 
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white avenger
white avenger
Angel's been getting away with stuff since Season 1 of "Buffy," and not only as Angelus. His habit of making (wrong) decisions for others is his one of biggest character flaws.

white avenger

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Angel has already used the "make the day g away and everything will be all fixed again" trick twice, and it was nothing more than a crutch both times. Then there's "It wasn't REALLY me, it was mean ol' Angelus," and now mean ol' Angelus has become evil ol' Twilight.It's time for Angel, or Joss, to try something new, like, maybe, Angel accepts the fact that, because of him, Giles in dead, and dead in a no magic world means gone and ain't coming back. And, as far as that goes, what about the several thousand other people whose deaths Angel, as Twilight, is responsible for? Sure, Giles was special for Buffy, but that should in no way single him out for resurrection ahead of all of those other people.

And as for Whistler plotting to dust Angel, why not? Maybe the PTB figure that he's done about as much damage as they can manipulate him into doing, and it's time to break in a fresh puppet.

I'm sure that, ultimately, it's all for the greater good...
 
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Icarium

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Balance is really the writers' new buzzword, isn't it? It seems like trying to restore the balance is the excuse of half of the characters, never mind the Buffyverse never had any real balance in the first place.

A demon who kills by shooting some deadly ray through his eyes? How very original. Not.

Willow "healed" Nadira? What happened to magic being basically useless for medical purposes?

Whistler repeating his famous speech from Becoming? Come on, guys, it didn't work when Dark Willow used "Bored now", it didn't work when Giles said "The world is doomed" in Chosen, etc. Come up with something new, please.

Again the evolution talk? Bored now.

Angel doesn't remember "the incident"? I think they should put a picture of Joss in the dictionary, next to the word "white-washing".

The art is amazing, especially compared to Jeanty's crap, that's for sure. Too bad the story seems to have zero originality. The dialogue is decent (especially compared what passed for dialogue in S8) but to be honest I am sick of Angel and I am not going to like the story much unless he gets a very painful death and we all know this is not going to happen.
 

SpaceLord

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Angel has already used the "make the day g away and everything will be all fixed again" trick twice, and it was nothing more than a crutch both times. Then there's "It wasn't REALLY me, it was mean ol' Angelus," and now mean ol' Angelus has become evil ol' Twilight.It's time for Angel, or Joss, to try something new, like, maybe, Angel accepts the fact that, because of him, Giles in dead, and dead in a no magic world means gone and ain't coming back. And, as far as that goes, what about the several thousand other people whose deaths Angel, as Twilight, is responsible for? Sure, Giles was special for Buffy, but that should in no way single him out for resurrection ahead of all of those other people.

And as for Whistler plotting to dust Angel, why not? Maybe the PTB figure that he's done about as much damage as they can manipulate him into doing, and it's time to break in a fresh puppet.

I'm sure that, ultimately, it's all for the greater good...
I sense a bit of bitterness there :D

But I guess I can understand it. It feels more and more as some sort of soap opera.
 

racheltng

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I was so good! I avoided every spoiler and preview page, and, boy, am I glad I did. I bought my comic and headed straight to the park to read it. Got to this line, which is Giles' thoughts, "Which bring to mind a reason for not having children I rarely mention -- the strong likelihood that I shall die violently, and well before my nature time."

Starting crying on a bench in Union Square. Thankfully, it was New York City, so no one noticed. I was so angry at Giles for so long that when he died, I didn't really feel it. I knew the grief would come later, when I started to miss him, and there it was.

Great issue. I love Faith's characterization. I tend to ignore weak plot points and focus on character moments, and there are some great ones between Faith and Angel, and sure to be more ahead.
 

wickedtiger86

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First of all, I'd like to say, I'm at work and had to send my husband to pick up this issue, which he totally ninja'd from another guy. And it was the last issue in the shop. He must really love me . . .

And! Onto the comic . . . I really liked the characterization and dialogue. It was pretty believable and felt true to the characters for me. The art was a pleasure.

I am totally confused by Whistler and what the hecks he is trying to pull. He seems very different but it is still kinda cool to see him. It's really a perfect place in the story for him to show up, since his whole career was "Keeping the balance." However he said that he is cut off from the PTB which means he is working on his own ideas of where the balance should be, which could explain why he seems so different.

THey do keep going back and forth on what was Angel's fault and what was Twilight. I think in this issue though, the whole debate is how Angel actually feels on the situation. He is trying to figure out for himself how much was his fault and he sorting through those ideas verbally.

I was really moved by Giles' happiest day. I had to pause and really study the art there before I felt I could continue reading.
 

The Scourge

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The Angel/Twilight thing will be wishy-washy for a while. It will take some time to get past the events of S8.

Sure, S8 utterly destroyed the character and insulted his fans; but I have to admit, it be be lame if they moved on so quickly.
 
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Well, I liked it! (I am absolutely "glass half full" when it comes to the comics) I always love it when secondary characters come back, and Whistler coming back was appropriate and welcome. To be honest, I didn't get much in the way of positive vibes off him in "Becoming", so I'm not surprised to see him converse with a pair of psycho twins in a room full of dead people without missing a beat. An agent of The Balance is by necessity completely and utterly morally grey.

I loved all of Faith's scenes, especially the implication that she counseled the current London squad. I'm interested in what Nadira's vow of vengeance will entail, but I will roll my eyes hard if she dies. Pearl and Nash (which is which?!) look like entertaining crazy villains and I look forward to them as well.

Giles in the first few pages was such a badass. I assume that these flashbacks were post-Season 7? I always miss Jenny, it's good when we see glimpses of her, like in "Him" and the First taking on her guise in "Amends".

I severely doubt Giles will come back to life, but I definitely want to know how Angel's quest pans out.

I think the way the level of responsibility Angel had for Twilight's actions was dealt with perfectly. He chose it, he missed some of the worse parts, he was knowingly manipulating Buffy, but he feels responsible for all of it as he should. This is all consistent and believable - remember, Angel was surprised to see that Twilight was being ushered in and everyone was going to die right then. I seriously don't see any of the character inconsistency that everyone else always does, this explains everything.

Everyone who doesn't want to read the comics or doesn't have the opportunity to read them should check out the Canon Watch thread I just started.
 
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AndrewCrossett

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I give the issue about 4 1/2 stars. Angel said what he needed to say to make me not want him dead. I like the fact that he is trying to actually fix the results of his evil deeds rather than just being really really sorry (again) and trying to balance some imaginary cosmic balance sheet by doing good deeds elsewhere. However, he killed 200+ Slayers as well, whose lives were worth just as much as Giles's. Is he going to try to bring them back, too?

I've said all along that Whistler is a balance demon, which is not the same as being a good demon, and he will serve evil just as enthusiastically as he will serve good. I'm glad he's a villain now, since we can hopefully now see the little twerp get splattered.
 
Tome
Tome
Lol! Hopefully.
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