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Discussion of Buffy 10.09 "Return to Sunnydale, Part II" - Released 11/19/14 (Dark Horse)

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Sineya
#42
coherent character for once
And she is...

On that specific situation - be there for someone you care – Hank is really worse than a soulless vampire. He is a father and didn't care that his two children were in pain and alone after Joyce's death (I doubt he knew about Buffy's friends and even if he did, it doesn't matter), or that Dawn had lost her only relative, after Buffy's death. He didn't even called after Joyce's death, I remember Buffy waiting for a call that never happened.
 

thetopher

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#43
But Buffy isn't being specific- she babbles on about how unsoulled Spike 'really wasn't that bad' because he took care of Dawn. Does that absolve him of the bad stuff he did after he took care of Dawn?
I don't remember Hank Summers trying to murder anybody, traffic in demon eggs or sexually assault Buffy. Hank is guilty of being a selfish, absentee father-figure but honestly we all need to get some perspective here. Hank Summers isn't a patch on unsoulled Spike.
 

white avenger

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#44
And she is...

On that specific situation - be there for someone you care – Hank is really worse than a soulless vampire. He is a father and didn't care that his two children were in pain and alone after Joyce's death (I doubt he knew about Buffy's friends and even if he did, it doesn't matter), or that Dawn had lost her only relative, after Buffy's death. He didn't even called after Joyce's death, I remember Buffy waiting for a call that never happened.
As for Buffy's death, I think that it's pretty obvious that the Scoobies went to great lengths to actually conceal Buffy's death, as illustrated by the reactivation of the Buffybot, both as an aid in the nightly patrols, and as filling the role of Dawn's guardian to the School Board. Obviously, if the bot could attend a PTA meeting without arousing anyone's suspicions, they all thought that she actually was Buffy.

For another reason for Buffy's death to be concealed, consider Faith. Obviously, the only reason that the Watchers no longer seemed all that interested in her (I'm sure that they could have had her assassinated, or at least attempted to do so, even within the confines of the prison). With Buffy apparently fulfilling the duties of Slayer, there wasn't enough of a reason to terminate Faith, therefore generating a new, and hopefully, more manageable, Slayer to fulfill her duties.
 
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#45
As for Buffy's death, I think that it's pretty obvious that the Scoobies went to great lengths to actually conceal Buffy's death
Yeah, I had forgotten that. But I doubt that Hank would have come for Dawn, anyway. 
I don't remember Hank Summers trying to murder anybody, traffic in demon eggs or sexually assault Buffy. Hank is guilty of being a selfish, absentee father-figure but honestly we all need to get some perspective here. Hank Summers isn't a patch on unsoulled Spike.
Yeah, but we are talking about feelings here, she feels that Spike, as a soulless demon, was less selfish than her father.

Willow always used magic to fix her love predicaments, she almost got Dawn killed, she ended up killing two people (although these were undone later), but everyone kept saying what a good and sweet girl she was. And I am not comparing Willow to a vampire who killed thousands!!!!

The infamous attempted rape... I have a strong opinion about that, but is better not to open this can of worms again. But Buffy wasn't, isn't and never will be a victim, a weak little woman, and never was she in danger in that bathroom, hence, no trauma whatsoever.
 
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#46
But I doubt that Hank would have come for Dawn, anyway.
Well, the script seems to suggest something else entirely:

BuffyBot: I'll get it!
Willow/Tara/Dawn: No!
Dawn: Um...it could be my dad. He said he'd call today.
BuffyBot: I'll just say hello. He's my biological ancestor. (...)
Willow: You know, Buffybot maybe you should let the machine - uh, the other machine, answer the phone from now on. Okay?
BuffyBot: Is my phone manner not correct?
Tara: It's perfect. It's just...we can't take the chance that Mr. Summers might talk to you and know something's wrong.
Xander: See, if he thought the real Buffy was gone, he could take Dawn away.
Dawn: And I wanna stay here, with you and Willow and Tara. Understand?
BuffyBot: I do! I want you to stay here as well. You're my sister!

Hank is really worse than a soulless vampire


STOP!

Just stop. Buffy's dad got a divorce, then left the country when Buffy was at least 17 by the way, I mean, they still spend the summer together between season 1 and 2, right? That's it, that's his big "crime". Apparently that makes him worse in Buffy's eyes than a vampire who liked to rape/torture to death girls younger than Dawn! What the f#$%?! It's completely ridiculous. Even if it's purely about selfishness, guess what, it's still completely ridiculous! 'Cause there's no way Hank was more selfish as Buffy's father than Spike as her lover. It's impossible, OK?

Damn it Buff, I love you, but why do you have to be so mental?
 
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#47
Xander: See, if he thought the real Buffy was gone, he could take Dawn away.
Yeah, he could. But I doubt he would. And he didn't call. Poor Dawn, gets a call per year, maybe, and then waits for the next, to no avail. 
'Cause there's no way Hank was more selfish as Buffy's father than Spike as her lover.
Hank isn't worst than a killer, and Buffy doesn't think that.

"Hank was more selfish as Buffy's father than Spike as her lover." You nailed it, thanks.
 
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janas

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#48
Maybe Buffy has forgotten some things about Spike, but by some spoiler descriptions for the next issues, I think she is going to have a vivid reminder of what was soulless Spike.
 
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#49
Maybe Buffy has forgotten some things about Spike, but by some spoiler descriptions for the next issues, I think she is going to have a vivid reminder of what was soulless Spike.
And... as I already pointed, Buffy will say: "Spike, I knew about all the evil things you did in the past, but now, after seeing it, feeling it, I can't be with you right now, sooo sorry, bye!”

Cordelia/Jasmine used that excuse with Angel.
 

janas

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#50
And... as I already pointed, Buffy will say: "Spike, I knew about all the evil things you did in the past, but now, after seeing it, feeling it, I can't be with you right now, sooo sorry, bye!”

Cordelia/Jasmine used that excuse with Angel.
But the fact is that Buffy has already seen and felt all the evil things that Spike did in the past, because Spike did it too against her.
But even so, this Buffy will say: "Spike, I was with you when you have not had a soul, so I can be with you too right now"

It's correct to say "you have not had" ? it sounds strange :oops:
 

thetopher

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#51
I think she is going to have a vivid reminder of what was soulless Spike.
I'd be surprised by this unfortunately. When we've had flashbacks to soulless demon Spike from 'LMPTM' onwards he's basically been portrayed as some sort of badass anti-hero type, rather than as the monster we saw when he first turned up in Sunnydale.

At least the writers aren't trying to spin Angelus' pre-soul days. He was always a nasty bugger.

It's correct to say "you have not had" ? it sounds strange :oops:
Better to say 'when you didn't have a soul.' :)

And generally I agree that Buffy wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) react the same way to seeing Spike's past as Cordelia did to seeing Angel's. Buffy saw what a vampire was capable of first hand when she was seventeen and still managed to distinguish between what was man and what was monster.

Mind you, her experiences with Angel and Angelus were in stark contrast. I wonder if she's see the same differences with Spike?
 
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#52
And generally I agree that Buffy wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) react the same way to seeing Spike's past as Cordelia did to seeing Angel's. Buffy saw what a vampire was capable of first hand when she was seventeen and still managed to distinguish between what was man and what was monster.
That was show!Buffy. ComicBuffy is a moron and this story is all about Spike's angst so far. It would not surprise me at all if they wrote her as unaccepting of the fact that vampires murder and torture people.
 
thetopher
thetopher
Point. Comic-Buffy is a moron.
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#53
Let's not forget that Buffy wanted to leave Dawn with Spike in "Villains". So yeah, I think that to a certain degree, she was always a moron. Problem is, she's older now and more experienced - that's why this stuff is so infuriating and bewildering, at least to me.
 

Buffy Summers

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#56
I do like the idea of Andrew trying to resurrect Tara.

I thought Buffy was a little insensitive with the creature, though - she basically says, "I know a slayer killed your family, but you look like a squid so it doesn't matter". Just came off as very un Buffy.

And Spike: "I can't face goin' back to being...HIM." Really? You really would rather Buffy kill you than not have a soul? Because you are that much different with it? Pffft

At least Willow did the right thing and didn't let Andrew go through with his plan - though, in truth, it's really against Willow's character not to put herself first. Though I guess the line "Not by doing this to ME." brings it right back to being about Willow.

I do like that Andrew brought up that they've forgiven everyone in the world but him.

But lines like "Home's where my peeps are" just ruin everything that's good about the issue. They NEED to cut out the After-School Special lines.
 

Blair

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#57
I just finished reading the chapter today.

I got really excited at first of the thought of Tara coming back (as she was my favourite character), but can imagine how hard it was for Willow to resist. I do like Andrew and how he wants to be part of the team but is always on the outside (okay, so he's not the greatest guy but his heart seems to be in the right place, for the most part)

Poor Willow... Even after six years I can get why she's not over Tara's death- seems like she pictured to be with Tara forever.

I don't think I'm as critical as you guys haha. (I haven't read all of season 8 but read most of 9, and now my local library is stocking season ten of Buffy so I'm not fussed) But just overall loving this season.
 
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#58
And I thought I would never get as upset/annoyed by the comics then I was during the twilight stuff...

This is the 2nd issue in a row that's testing me.

I used to think Buffy didn't talk enough about soulless Spike and their relationship during season 7... now I regret hoping she would. The less they talk about it, the better as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather them ignore it then have to read that stupidity again.
 
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