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Discussion of Buffy 10.15 "Relationship Status: Complicated, Part 2" - Released 5/20/15 (Dark Horse)

Buffy Summers

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Writer: Christos Gage
Penciller: Rebekah Isaacs

Buffy and the gang come face to face with a terrifying new demon that shares a special bond with Spike, threatening his growing connection to the Slayer.


Source: Wikipedia
 

Spanky

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I think that might be where I wash my hands of it. I started reading again a few episodes back and it felt 'normal' but this one did actually feel... forced. I dont like where it's heading.
 

EVIL UU

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Dawn! No guy is worth your life - not ever! *unless it's my boyfriend :]

I think this was an enjoyable issue, though your investment, or lack thereof, into Buffy/Spike might obviously factor into it. I loved the art, again, the battle against Archaeus was awesome and what's important, every member of the team was important - even Dawn! She kicked ass with her crossbow and played nurse with Willow. The post-battle talks were fun as well. There was humor, there were feels, there was action - I don't ask for more.

So yeah, remember that cliffhanger from the previous issue when Spike turned on Buffy? Yeah, what does Buffy do? She puts down her weapon. Here's what she says:

I won't hurt you. We're not there yet. I'm not your enemy, Spike. We...care about each other. Trust each other. Which is why I'm putting this down. I can't kill you. And I know you won't kill me. Remember who you are, Spike. I saw it. I saw you. You're better than this. I'm betting my life on it.


At this point I don't expect Buffy to act sane in a situation like this, she's proven time and time again that she's an absolute madwoman when it comes to her vampire lovers, nothing new here. And OK, if she wants to gamble with her life it's her right to do so. Except it's not just her life she gambles with. Imagine that she's wrong. Spike kills her. What happens next? Willow and Giles have their magic, with some luck they probably manage to get out of the warehouse alive but Dawn and Xander? They're dead. There's no if or maybe here. Basically, Buffy is still tremendously irresponsible, still thoughtless about the possible consequences of her decisions. One has to ask - will Buffy ever learn? How many more of her friends have to die? I mean, Buffy, you have an ax, can't you just chop his legs off?! And yes, I know, Willow did not doubt in Spike either but it's kinda understandable after her involvement in Spike's IDW series, I suppose.

Speaking of Spike, I liked his honesty concerning the obsession with slayers and the high of killing one. Admitting it like that? Kind of a big deal, isn't it? Also, he just took over Riley on my personal top wankers list. No, Spike, Buffy does not always pick Angel, in fact, she has not picked Angel in a long time. I mean, who wore that bloody amulet, huh? No, Buffy is not going to suddenly run off with Angel to London or whatever just because Giles is back. I mean, does Spike dare to imply that Buffy does not care about everything else Angel did in season 8? You know, trying to kill her and her family, countless human and slayer victims, an apocalypse? I'm OK with Spike the big bad, I'm OK with Spike the opportunistic asshole, but Spike the insufferable insecure little wanker? To hell with this! Oh and Willow's coily inamorata is officially the best nickname in the history of Buffyverse.

Xander and Dawn. On one hand what Xander said makes sense, it's a pretty mature way of handling the issue too and on the top of that Xander is the type of person who is able to turn a romantic infatuation into a real friendship, see: Buffy, but on the other hand - I don't know, I'm not sure if he actually believes in what he told Dawn in this issue or whether he was a hundred percent honest. And by the way - why was Dawn wearing a kimono? Is Satsu in town or something? What? You have any better ideas? Honking Batman Kimono out of nowhere.

Giles was OK, I liked how he tried to be Spike's bro, also, he was totally staring at Willow boobs in that one panel. Being Rupert Giles - it's pure suffering. You know, I have to say, I've grown to like Giles in this season, he's alright.

Anyway, I liked this issue, all in all it's pretty good stuff in my opinion.
 
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Spanky

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So yeah, remember that cliffhanger from the previous issue when Spike turned on Buffy? Yeah, what does Buffy do? She puts down her weapon.
I thought it was contrived that the only thing that saved her was going into Spike's mind previously. Now suddenly whenever Spike remembers the past Buffy is automatically in his mind for him to see? That felt forced to me.

And boy there was alot of talk about while not being able to control Spike he still can control his other vampires- notably Angel. I am really not looking forward to seeing the Spike and Angel dynamic play out, if the tail end of the issue was any indication.

So.. I dont know everything that's happened.. but is Xander going to turn out to be gay? The fact that he referenced finally figuring out who Andrew is, and his helping with that.. then the whole, it scares the hell out of me remark, made me think they might be going that route. Or was there more to the backstory than I know?
 

NothingVentured

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Buffy, you have an ax, can't you just chop his legs off?!
Or kick him in the head and knock him out (Never Leave Me).

Then, since they had so much trouble with Archaeus and Spike, let's bring *another* powerful vamp in. One who is of dubious standing even without being mind-controlled. Brilliant!

Willow should just turn them both into frogs until the mess is sorted.
 

Silverspike

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"I'm OK with Spike the big bad, I'm OK with Spike the opportunistic asshole, but Spike the insufferable insecure little wanker? "

Oh but Spikes always been insecure during the show and we saw that. He was just far better at hiding though imo.
 

NothingVentured

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Yeah, but it's a little strange in this instance. "She" (meaning Buffy) always picks him. She sent him away after S8 apparently and she sent him away in S7. Spike really has no reason to say that. If he were to say girls or "they" always pick him, subtly referencing Dru, that'd be something. But here it does seem a little uncalled for.
 

EVIL UU

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Oh but Spikes always been insecure during the show and we saw that. He was just far better at hiding though imo.
That's true but this isn't just about Spike's insecurity - it's about a fundamental lack of trust. Spike and Buffy have a history, right? The way I see it what Buffy's been doing since Spike got his soul back is basically learning to trust him again. Season after season she puts more and more trust into Spike. In this season she finally trusts him enough to follow her heart or whatever. They're together again. More than that, in this issue she trusts him with her very life.

What does Spike do? First he lies to her in issue 13 and now he's what, afraid that she's, what, going to change her mind because Angel is coming to town or something? Spike's out of his #$!%ing mind! Look, he tried to rape her. It was an utter violation of trust. Now she trusts him enough to get intimate again. And Spike? He doesn't trust her at all! It's - it's#$%^ed up, that's what it is!

Willow broke up with her coily inamorata because she could not trust her. Spike clearly doesn't trust Buffy - do the maths.​
 

NothingVentured

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Willow broke up with her coily inamorata because she could not trust her. Spike clearly doesn't trust Buffy - do the maths.​
I don't think Gage sees it that way, but yeah. They've been together in-story 2 days and in that space he's been nothing but a ball of freak-out. Seems like the crossover will be more about her following him around with an emotional bedpan and telling him he. is. awesome than anything else.

I keep hearing about how healthy this supposedly is, but if it's that fragile, why are they together? Why jump into bed with her? In an odd way, it seems like S6 again just out in the open.

Also, maybe I missed something, but who killed those two people then? Was it Controlled!Spike or Archaeus himself? Willow says they know for a fact he didn't, but why does Spike remember doing it? Who let them out of the morgue? If Archaeus is capable of siring, why bother with Angel? Just make an army of vamps. I know they want a crossover, but they should cover that base at least.
 

gite63

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And Spike? He doesn't trust her at all! It's - it's#$%^ed up, that's what it is!
I think it's not a matter of trust, but of insecurity. Spike trusts her with his life, but is still terrified about having the love of his life by his side – and wake up the next morning with her gone; she hasn't even said the “L” word properly.

Besides, there are the timing – they were together for, what, less than 48 hours? And he already had to deal with the nightmare, and the necessity to call Angel – the guy who has history with his two beloved women, Drusilla and Buffy. It's not like they've been together for months and months.

He lied - or didn't rush to tell her - about the nightmare not because he thought that she wouldn't help him, or that she would kill him on the spot; he was afraid to get dumped.
 

white avenger

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Angel has dominated, bullied, and belittled Spike from the first moment that Dru brought "Willie" to meet the rest of the gang. Everything that Spike has ever had or wanted, Angel has taken away from him or been there when he lost it. Spike has seen from the first moment that he saw Buffy and Angel together how crazy Buffy is about Angel, how he has been the center of her very existence, the love who she compares everyone else to, whether she admits it or not. As close as he and Buffy had become in Season 7, he saw her fall all over Angel almost the second that he showed up. Certainly, he's apprehensive, even scared, about Angel coming back into the picture again. he's finally gotten something real with Buffy, something that he's dreamed about, and she's on the verge of actually committing to something more than just a physical relationship.

Now up pops Angel again.

Hell, yes, he's worried. He's scared right down to his boot soles, and he's justified in being so. As far as we've seen, Buffy hasn't made any real effort to reassure him. Should she have to? No, she really shouldn't, but that's not really the question. The question is, knowing how Spike feels about her, and knowing that he's certainly going to remember how things were between Buffy and Angel, absolutely, yes, Buffy SHOULD be making every effort, at every opportunity, to reassure Spike that she is his girl, now, and that, whatever she felt felt for Angel in the past is exactly that. In the past.

I sincerely hope that this crossover isn't just a cheap stunt to end Buffy and Spike, and not just because this is the ship that I support. I can accept it if they decide that they can't make it work, but for Buffy to leave Spike just because Angel comes along and the old flame flares up again cheapens Buffy in a most serious way.
 

Spanky

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[it]cheapens Buffy in a most serious way.
It doesn't cheapen her any worse than she's been already.

You said you didnt want Buffy to leave Spike because of Angel.

How would you feel if Spike left Buffy?
Lets say Angel delivers info related to the Archaeus line, and as a result, both vampers break it off with Buffy; she is left heartbroken and pining for both of them.
 

NothingVentured

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Angel has dominated, bullied, and belittled Spike from the first moment that Dru brought "Willie" to meet the rest of the gang. Everything that Spike has ever had or wanted, Angel has taken away from him or been there when he lost it. Spike has seen from the first moment that he saw Buffy and Angel together how crazy Buffy is about Angel, how he has been the center of her very existence, the love who she compares everyone else to, whether she admits it or not. As close as he and Buffy had become in Season 7, he saw her fall all over Angel almost the second that he showed up. Certainly, he's apprehensive, even scared, about Angel coming back into the picture again. he's finally gotten something real with Buffy, something that he's dreamed about, and she's on the verge of actually committing to something more than just a physical relationship.

Now up pops Angel again.

Hell, yes, he's worried. He's scared right down to his boot soles, and he's justified in being so. As far as we've seen, Buffy hasn't made any real effort to reassure him. Should she have to? No, she really shouldn't, but that's not really the question. The question is, knowing how Spike feels about her, and knowing that he's certainly going to remember how things were between Buffy and Angel, absolutely, yes, Buffy SHOULD be making every effort, at every opportunity, to reassure Spike that she is his girl, now, and that, whatever she felt felt for Angel in the past is exactly that. In the past.

I sincerely hope that this crossover isn't just a cheap stunt to end Buffy and Spike, and not just because this is the ship that I support. I can accept it if they decide that they can't make it work, but for Buffy to leave Spike just because Angel comes along and the old flame flares up again cheapens Buffy in a most serious way.
If Spike is that concerned, then he shouldn't be with her. He didn't need to jump into whatever it is they are. It would make Buffy look crappy, but she's already crap, so we're back to why he's with her. If he's that insecure about every little thing, it's time to take a step back. Otherwise it's just a pre-emptive way to blame everything a character does on the other person. In Chosen, they weren't involved and she sent Angel away anyway. S8, he wasn't even in the picture during whatever the F that mess was supposed to be. It's his issue, not hers.

It doesn't cheapen her any worse than she's been already.

You said you didnt want Buffy to leave Spike because of Angel.

How would you feel if Spike left Buffy?
Lets say Angel delivers info related to the Archaeus line, and as a result, both vampers break it off with Buffy; she is left heartbroken and pining for both of them.
The second cover suggests that could happen. Everyone focused on the Morris, but what you describe is depicted in the Isaacs one. I'm sure if that does happen, it'll be all her fault, though.
 

white avenger

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You said you didnt want Buffy to leave Spike because of Angel.

How would you feel if Spike left Buffy?
If Spike left Buffy because he feels that, for some legitimate reason, they can't be together (like Angel supposedly did after Season 3), then I could accept it. If he left her just because Dru showed up, I think that that would be just as bad as Buffy leaving him for Angel.
 

gite63

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If Spike left Buffy because he feels that, for some legitimate reason, they can't be together (like Angel supposedly did after Season 3), then I could accept it.
Me too, but would they do the same story again?

If he left her just because Dru showed up, I think that that would be just as bad as Buffy leaving him for Angel.
I don't think at this point of her life Buffy needs to see Angel to realize “OMG, I love him! I had forgotten that! Bye Spike!” It's not like she hasn't seen him for 5, 10 years.

Now, Spike hasn't seen Dru for a long, long time... (if the mini isn't canon). He would not leave Buffy for Dru, of course, but wouldn't be Buffy the jealous one then? :D 
If he's that insecure about every little thing, it's time to take a step back.
Little thing? A nightmare where he thought that he was back to killing people again, same night he has just slept with her?

Angel's presence? Well, here I have to agree with you. :D
 

white avenger

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Me too, but would they do the same story again?



I don't think at this point of her life Buffy needs to see Angel to realize “OMG, I love him! I had forgotten that! Bye Spike!” It's not like she hasn't seen him for 5, 10 years.
God, I truly hope that we don't see a repeat of the Season 3 finale with Spike playing Angel's part this time. (My original comment was basically just meant as a been there, done that, sort of thing)

And, no, at this point in her life, Buffy needs to finally realize, and admit to herself, that, as much as she has, and always will, love Angel, barring a miracle, they're just never going to be. Their time is past, and it's time to quit hanging onto a dream that will never come true. Both Buffy AND Angel need to move on. Hopefully, this crossover will finally convince both Buffy and Angel of that. Especially Angel. The boy's been living like a monk way too long. It just ain't healthy!
 

NothingVentured

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Little thing? A nightmare where he thought that he was back to killing people again, same night he has just slept with her?

Angel's presence? Well, here I have to agree with you. :D
He had absolutely no reason to believe Buffy would drop him for something he had no control over. They weren't even dating and she bent over backwards to help him before.

And, no, at this point in her life, Buffy needs to finally realize, and admit to herself, that, as much as she has, and always will, love Angel, barring a miracle, they're just never going to be. Their time is past, and it's time to quit hanging onto a dream that will never come true. Both Buffy AND Angel need to move on. Hopefully, this crossover will finally convince both Buffy and Angel of that. Especially Angel. The boy's been living like a monk way too long. It just ain't healthy!
Considering they're doing Spuffy now after... 5 seasons of pining (whatever that is in terms of years), I don't think grow up and get over it is really applicable when it comes to this 'verse. If it is, it's rather selective.
 

Zero

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Honestly, I'm not looking forward to the Angel crossover. After that mess in S8, I prefer they remain a continent away from each other. Both comic series have gotten much stronger since S8. I think it's due time to finally let go of that Angel/Buffy doomed relationship. Everytime they get together it causes a Big Bad scenario.
 

The Bronze

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I'm struggling to figure out how bringing Angel into the picture is going to help this situation. He certainly needs a warning phone call. Other than that I would think that the more distance between him and Archaeus the better. Buffy certainly won't be able to fend off a pair of mind controlled vampires and keep her on Archaeus. Hopefully there's some thought and explanation given.
 
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