• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Discussion of Buffy 10.19 "Freaky Giles Day" - Released 9/23/15 (Dark Horse)

Buffy Summers

Yataro
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
31,566
Location
The City of Angels
Sineya
Writer: Christos Gage Penciller: Rebekah Isaacs

With a little help from Willow, Giles is given a second chance at adulthood, and the demon scourge smells weakness. Meanwhile, Buffy and Dawn are reunited with their neglectful father, Hank Summers.

Source: Wikipedia
 

EVIL UU

Scooby
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
1,755
HA HA GILES GOT LAID!Yeah, OK, I admit it, I was wrong! Happy?!
Well, that was pretty fun! The only problems I have with this issue stem from the consistently terrible world building but everything else is pretty damn great. Art and writing - it's all quality in my opinion.

So Giles! Giles was awesome! Got laid, went to a bar, smashed a demon with a guitar! No, literally! Like a bloody rockstar! If you're even remotely a fan of Giles then go get this shit, shoot it straight into your veins! Personally, I enjoyed his interaction with Xander the most and I can so relate to getting worse at video games his conversation with Willow was also nice but the closing scene with Buffy was a little bit too bubblegum sugary for my tastes. Don't get me wrong, it was not embarrassing or anything but I don't know, maybe I'm just getting tired of characters giving Buffy uplifting pep talks, especially when it's twice in one issues, although yeah, she probably did need it. Anyway, I also enjoyed Rupert's and Olivia's stuff, I like the development of this relationship and damn, I can't seem to recall Olivia ever being quite this hot but this is not something I'm going to complain about...ever! Giles looked great as well by the way, I kinda dig his style.

Hank Summers. I think that his characterization was actually spot on and meshed very well with his portrayal in the past. Let's be honest, Hank's not a dad of the year but he's not malicious nor evil either and no, he is certainly not worse than Spike. Obviously, his decision to not invite Buffy to his wedding - it's a terrible thing to do to a kid but he is right. His reasoning is sound, especially now that demons seemingly target the Scoobies and I think that it's good that Buffy agreed with him. People die around Buffy and even though her sentiment is coloured by her feelings of guilt over the deaths of Jenny, Tara and Anya ( among others, I presume ) it does not change the reality of her calling. She needs to understand that. Of course Dawn went nuclear on Hank, understandably so in my opinion. Her conversation...well, OK, another pep talk, with Buffy later on wasn't exactly surprising but kinda sweet nonetheless.

One problem. Can anybody explain to me why in a world where most of that stuff's online (...) everyone knows that supernatural's real, everyone's an amateur watcher now, where even Buffy's father's new fiancée knows who Buffy is and what she does from the television, where Olivia moved to San Francisco precisely because quote: those of us with prior experience in the occult are quite in demand now, where witch covens treat her like a celebrity is Willow looking for a job at a Tech Startup?! Unless this Startup plans to disrupt the occult this is just completely ridiculous.

What else? Look, Buffy's headdress did not look good on her. Beanies, scarves - come on, isn't this California? Xander's dick joke - completely in character. Demon - 100% vicious and hellish. If the comics do anything better than the show it surely is demon design. And that's about it - another solid issue.
 

gite63

Gone
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1,888
Location
Brazil
Sineya
Let's be honest, Hank's not a dad of the year but he's not malicious nor evil either and no, he is certainly not worse than Spike.
Yes, he is. To Buffy, he is worse, and have always been, and Buffy acknowledged that in that conversation at the Sunnydale crate. The ugly truth is that the man doesn't like his daughter.

I did a quick reading, and I liked it. But there wasn't any new revelation or anything important - we all knew that Buffy's real father has always been Giles, with all his imperfections.
 

Spanky

I'm came here to chew bubblegum and go off topic.
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
19,599
Black Thorn
The ugly truth is that the man doesn't like his daughter.
Well, neither did Joyce, honestly. As in the movie, Buffy was pretty much an orphan with parents.
 

EVIL UU

Scooby
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
1,755
@gite63

Why do you want Spike to be such a loser boyscout? If Buffy's dad managed to be badder than William the bloody then it really is time for the latter to stake himself and bow out with dignity!

He used to be the punk ideal! The violence, the sex, the badassery, the vampire dot com! Don't you love that Spike? And look at him now - working for the pigs, drinking pigs' blood! Tracing Angel's steps, turning into Riley! To hell with this - I like my Spike bad!
 

gite63

Gone
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1,888
Location
Brazil
Sineya
Well, neither did Joyce, honestly. As in the movie, Buffy was pretty much an orphan with parents.
I wouldn't go so far concerning Joyce... she wasn't perfect, but I believe she loved Buffy. Hank, on the other hand, doesn't even like her; he and his soon-to-be wife made a decision and he simply told Buffy; no emotion, no care, nothing. It doesn't matter if he is right.
 
You picked the right word - Spike is such a boyscout now. He really used to be more rock (punk is dead, sorry), less folk, but what can I do, I still dig the man!
 

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,794
Age
35
I wouldn't say that Joyce didn't like Buffy. She was the one who stayed after all. Being a single parent isn't a picnic. She has to provide for her daughter and be emotionally available - the former did outweigh the latter, which is understandable. Joyce provided Buffy with a home, came around to accept her daughter's slayerness, was so happy that her daughter did well on her SATs, paid for Buffy's college fees, made sure her daughter didn't need to get a part-time job to help out in the house.

She's not perfect, but she was a good, loving mother. Buffy would have been lost without her. Actually she did get lost without her - all the real life angst she had to deal with after Joyce's death.
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
I think that brings up more questions on where is Joyce getting all this money from.

gite63

Gone
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1,888
Location
Brazil
Sineya
Another thing in this issue to be noted is how fast Giles gave up his hours of adulthood because he felt weak in the face of the upcoming threat of the Lord Demons.

This remembered me of Angel and Spike, and their (supposedly) wish to become human. Angel had the opportunity for two times already, and he gave up both because “it wasn't the right time”. As I keep saying, it will never be the right time – being human means being weaker, to loose all the awesome vampire powers - and that's something anyone would want, ever.
 
where witch covens treat her like a celebrity is Willow looking for a job at a Tech Startup?! Unless this Startup plans to disrupt the occult this is just completely ridiculous.
Well, someone - besides Xander and Spike - needs to have a job in that gang, because I really don't know how they manage to support themselves... like sosa losa said, Joyce provided for her daughter - by having a job, at least...

I don't think that Hank will appear again - I believe this issue was all about Giles/Buffy, and Buffy's father was just a way to bring them together - but Will working with Theo Daniles and Hank moving to California to work for a startup could be connected...
 
Obviously, his decision to not invite Buffy to his wedding - it's a terrible thing to do to a kid but he is right.
He can be right, but then I think he should have married first and then tell his daughters - nothing new here, as he was always an absent father. To look for both of them to tell Buffy she isn't invited - and for her commentary about the dresses she thought she would be a bridesmaid - was just horrible.
 

EVIL UU

Scooby
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
1,755
Another thing in this issue to be noted is how fast Giles gave up his hours of adulthood because he felt weak in the face of the upcoming threat of the Lord Demons. This remembered me of Angel and Spike, and their (supposedly) wish to become human. Angel had the opportunity for two times already, and he gave up both because “it wasn't the right time”. As I keep saying, it will never be the right time – being human means being weaker, to loose all the awesome vampire powers - and that's something anyone would want, ever.
Those situations aren't comparable in my opinion because, unlike vampires, Giles doesn't have a real choice in this issue. He goes back to being a kid no matter what. And by the way - I want adult Giles back! [Dawn Mode: activated] I want, I want, I WANT! <stamps feet>

He's cooler, OK? And what do you think?

Well, someone - besides Xander and Spike - needs to have a job in that gang
Sure, just not writing software. Willow's the greatest witch of her generation in a world where magic is public knowledge. I'm not saying that she should open her own Hogwarts, though an educational youtube channel could be a good start, but computers? Come on! Same goes for Buffy - she can't go back to working as a waitress, that would be ridiculous. And I'm not even going to ask why isn't Xander working with SFPD....

He can be right, but then I think he should have married first and then tell his daughters - nothing new here, as he was always an absent father. To look for both of them to tell Buffy she isn't invited - and for her commentary about the dresses she thought she would be a bridesmaid - was just horrible.
It was horrible and Hank might be a stuffed sack of decaying donkey dicks for doing that to Buffy but he's still right. Safety over feelings, always. Anyway, I think that what Hank did is a part of a larger narrative. Remember that spat between Willow and Kennedy in season 8? ( K: You keep me away from Buffy. Out of her circle. And you're not that subtle about it./W: I have kept you from Buffy. I think I've even stayed away myself. ) Or Xander's decision to stay away from Buffy in season 9? It's the same issue, same reasoning. So I'm thinking, if badass monster hunters can't deal then how can we expect Hank to? I want to hate him 'cause dude, that's one of those things you just do not do to your daughter!!! but I just can't. Knowing Buffy's history, I can't argue with his reasoning.
 
Last edited:

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
15,393
Age
71
Location
rome, georgia
This remembered me of Angel and Spike, and their (supposedly) wish to become human. Angel had the opportunity for two times already, and he gave up both because “it wasn't the right time”. As I keep saying, it will never be the right time – being human means being weaker, to loose all the awesome vampire powers - and that's something anyone would want, ever.
I've been saying this for years (ever since the first time that I saw "I Will Remember You," in fact) Angel doesn't want to be human because it means that he would no longer the the toughest, baddest non-Slayer player in the gang. That's a distinction that he enjoyed for quite a few years, before Spike came along and made him only one of two, but that's still pretty awesome. And let's not forget that immortality thing. I don't think that even the promise of living out an ordinary mortal life with Buffy would ever, ultimately, be enough temptation for either vampire to actually go through with it. There would always be a quite valid excuse not to become human again, even if they had to make that excuse up themselves.
 

gite63

Gone
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1,888
Location
Brazil
Sineya
And by the way - I want adult Giles back! [Dawn Mode: activated] I want, I want, I WANT! <stamps feet>

He's cooler, OK? And what do you think?
I do like Kid!Giles, I think the whole thing was well done, believable, and gave the character a reboot, since some of his actions in the past were a little questionable, to say the least; yeah, I mean the betrayal, trying to kill Spike behind Buffy's back – for which I'm still waiting him apologize (Xander apologized to Angel because he punched him deservedly!) But, despite my reservations, I do like original, old Giles, and I want him back – it doesn't appeal to me a story about the growing pains of a kid, least this kid to be Giles.

What worries me is the fact that they established in this issue that Giles' skills as a researcher aren't needed anymore, and as an adult (besides being weaker) he doesn't have anything to do – as he himself has pointed out, he doesn't have a family, he doesn't have a serious relationship, he doesn't have a career in music - so it's something good that he can start his life all over. So, it seems Kid!Giles will stick... it seems they want to keep the characters young forever, even those that originally weren't...
 
Those situations aren't comparable in my opinion because, unlike vampires, Giles doesn't have a real choice in this issue. He goes back to being a kid no matter what.
He didn't think twice. Willow will research for a spell that can make him an adult permanently, but now that Giles knows he will loose his magic skills, will he want to grow old?
 
And let's not forget that immortality thing.
Death scares us all, more or less, imagine for an immortal suddenly be at peril to die any time soon!

I watched the last season of The Vampires Diaries, and what I understood is that Helena (turned vampire) wanted to be human again (and succeed), and Damon (a vampire) didn't want to turn back human; most of us are attached and used to what we are, we don't want to loose what we have, more than we would want gain something. I believe a person would not want to be an immortal, but if this same person were with a terminal illness, that could change.
 
Remember that spat between Willow and Kennedy in season 8? ( K: You keep me away from Buffy. Out of her circle. And you're not that subtle about it./W: I have kept you from Buffy. I think I've even stayed away myself. ) Or Xander's decision to stay away from Buffy in season 9? It's the same issue, same reasoning. So I'm thinking, if badass monster hunters can't deal then how can we expect Hank to?
So, poor Hank, just stay away from Buffy and Dawn! No need to show up and be offensive and hurtful. Hadn't Olivia left Giles because she was scared by the things that were happening around him? Then, suddenly, she is back and dealing with the occult... To be around Buffy and the Scoobies people have to be brave and selfless and heroes and champions...
 

EVIL UU

Scooby
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
1,755
Yeah, maybe it's just nostalgia in me talking - we haven't seen Giles the librarian in a long time and maybe I just kinda miss him? It's not like Giles the kid is terrible or anything, he's fun enough in his own way. Anyway, I've been thinking about Giles' role in the group. Magic is probably the only way to keep featuring him in combat scenes but I don't know, he's kind of turning into a mini-Willow and when you consider what happened to the previous mini-Willow this is not a particularly good place to be in. On the other hand, I don't mind him being just Giles™ hanging out with the gang and whatnot because that's not a particularly bad place to be in either.

Willow will research for a spell that can make him an adult permanently, but now that Giles knows he will loose his magic skills, will he want to grow old?
Well, Giles has given up on his powers once, in the ripper days. If he decides to remain a kid it's not going to be because of the power in my opinion.
 

gite63

Gone
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
1,888
Location
Brazil
Sineya
Well, Giles has given up on his powers once, in the ripper days.
Well, he saw he was following a very dark road, and stepped away in time.

If he decides to remain a kid it's not going to be because of the power in my opinion.
Maybe, but he did say:

In my old life I repressed my natural magical talent. The one silver lining of being this age is that I have a second chance to develop it.

At first, I didn't think that Kid!Giles would be permanent, but now, I don't know.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,075
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
Good stand-alone issue.
I think that the stand-alones tend to be a bit more character-focused than the arcs and maybe do a better job with their tighter scripts at making their points. We got to see that Giles (adult Giles) is no longer really needed in the Scoobies. It almost came across that he wasn't even really wanted that much as a grown-up. Lil' Giles has his place and (more importantly it seems) is useful as another magically inclined person with firepower to back up his knowledge. As an adult? Not so much- nobody needs his advice or Watcher-ness anymore, the poor guy. He was so used to being treated a as respected partner by Faith that he's forgotten how much the others took him for granted.
Still, at least we got a nice scene at the end, even though it was basically Buffy using Giles as an emotional crutch because she'd had a crappy day.

Bottom line: If/when he gets to be grown-up fully, Giles should do himself a favour, leave and go be with Faith again. Then at least he'll be valued.

I mean, I like Litttle Giles but if this is the only storyline that he's getting this season (that he's better off being a young version of himself) I'm kinda wondering why they brought him back in the first place.

Other stuff: Hank is a MASSIVE asshole. The only reason he's in this issue is to cement, for all time, that he is the asshat that all other asshats aspire to be. He comes and finds his daughters, tells them he's got a brand new family and says that, although he does want to see a lot more of them now...that doesn't really go for Buffy really because she's a massive freak that gets people killed. And Buffy being Buffy falls for it.
It's like Hank is retroactively justifying his absentee father-ness by saying 'sweetie, you were the slayer so really its lucky that I got out while I did. Look what happened to your Mom...'
This is just a high form of emotional cruelty from Hank. 'How can I reject her all over again?' Dawn should've hit him in the face with a beer bottle and let him bleed out on the floor. Git.
(Still, he's in no way worse than soulless Spike. Its the lack of body count gives it away)

Yeah, I liked this issue. Had all the character I liked in it and none of the characters that I dislike. :)
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
6,057
Location
Canada
Sineya
It sounds like they are trying to make Hank into the guy he was in "Nightmares 1x10":

Buffy and her father walk across campus.

HANK
I came early because there's something
I've needed to tell you. About your
mother and me. Why we split up.

Buffy takes a beat. Thrown.

BUFFY
You always said-

HANK
I know we always said we'd just
Grown too far apart...

BUFFY
Well, yeah. Isn't that true?

HANK
Come on, honey, let's sit down.

He leads her to a bench and they site. He will say the following things in a kind and gentle way.

HANK
You're old enough to know the truth.

BUFFY
Was there... someone else?

HANK
No, it was nothing like that.

BUFFY
Well then what was it?

HANK
It was you.

BUFFY
Me?

HANK
Having you, raising you, seeing you
every day, I mean do you have any
idea what that was like...?

BUFFY
(beat)
What?

HANK
Gosh, you don't even see what's
right in your face, do you. Well,
big surprise, all you ever think about
is yourself... you get in trouble, you
embarrass us with all the crazy stunts
you pull, do I have to go on?

BUFFY
...no. Please don't.

HANK
You're sullen and rude and not
nearly as bright as I thought you
were going to be. I mean, Buffy,
let's be honest: could you stand to
live in the same house with a daughter
like that?

BUFFY
Why are you saying these things?

HANK
Because they're true. I think that's
the least we owe one another.

She just shakes her head, fighting the tears.

HANK
And I don't think it's very mature
getting all blubbery when I'm just
trying to be honest - oh, speaking
of which, I don't really get anything
out of these weekends with you, what
do you say we just don't do them anymore.

He gives her a little pat on the arm.

HANK
I sure thought you were going
to turn out differently.

He gets up and heads off. She sits there in utter hurt and shock.


But whereas in "Nightmares" it proved to be untrue:

She runs to her dad who gives her a big hug (very unlike the way he behaved in her nightmare.)

HANK
Hi sweetheart. I'm got about a
million things planned for us
this weekend. - it's going to mean
spending a lot of quality time and
money together.

BUFFY
Great.

As they head off:

HANK
How was your day?

BUFFY
Oh you know, the usual...

In the comics, it seems that they are going for the original worst-case nightmare scenario.
 

EVIL UU

Scooby
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
1,755
I don't know, I don't think that Hank was intentionally trying to hurt Buffy, with a malicious intent kinda like the "Nightmares" version. He strikes me more as someone who's supremely inconsiderate, insensitive and unloving.

Still an asshole obviously.
 

Silverspike

Scooby
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
1,565
Can I just say again how much I loath the 'lil Giles' idea. To me it has overtones of the whole 'a persons useless when they're old' bit, which society today likes to push with a vengeance.
 

EVIL UU

Scooby
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
1,755
I think that the closing scene of issue 19 disproves this very idea.
 
Top Bottom