• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Discussion of Buffy 10.29 "Own It, Part IV" - Released 7/21/16 (Dark Horse)

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,794
Age
35
This thread is spoiler-y for those who did not read the issue.

So...

Xander is dead.

I haven't read the issue yet, but excuse me while I bawl my eyes out in the corner. :(
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
awww, my heart goes out to you. I understand your loss. I lost Buffy to Glory and Spike to the Hell Mouth and I feel your pain.

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
I haven't read it yet, but so sorry @sosa lola :( For what it's worth I don't think it'll stick, like Giles, he'll be back in one form or another
 

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,794
Age
35
See, I really don't want Xander to be dead, but I also don't want someone else to come back from the dead. How many times it happened now? Darla, Buffy, Spike, Fred, Warren, The Master, Giles... etc

It's getting way too repetitive and boring.
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
See, I really don't want Xander to be dead, but I also don't want someone else to come back from the dead. How many times it happened now? Darla, Buffy, Spike, Fred, Warren, The Master, Giles... etc

It's getting way too repetitive and boring.
Totally agree. I don't want Xan to die, but if they are going to do it, make it stick. If there is no jeapordy and everyone comes back, what's the point of any of it.
 

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,794
Age
35
I know! Death lost its meaning now. Though there's this theory that FAnya didn't kill Xander. It's a plan to save him from D'Hoffryn since she revealed in a previous issue that she didn't want Xander to get hurt, but that was before Xander 'abandoned' her to stay with Dawn.
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
I know! Death lost its meaning now. Though there's this theory that FAnya didn't kill Xander. It's a plan to save him from D'Hoffryn since she revealed in a previous issue that she didn't want Xander to get hurt, but that was before Xander 'abandoned' her to stay with Dawn.
That wouldn't surprise me at all. The writers hate killing anyone off. Rememeber Giles came back, though changed, so Xan might be back, but in a different form. If he's actually dead at all, it could be a spell
 

Stoney

Spiked!
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
916
Location
Blighty
I assume I don't need spoiler tags as it is the issue thread? These are my thoughts, apologies for repetition if you've read them elsewhere!

There were aspects of the issue that I thought were problematic, particularly the idea that Buffy's request was for people to disbelieve D'Hoffryn could write in the book, and that that would work. The belief in what vampires were based on Drac, which obviously helped determine the powers of the new vamps, was something that I think was felt to have a general acceptance and a world-wide belief in the truth of, a great deal more than they could get by asking just a few groups to think an opinion really hard! And another issue I've also seen others comment on was how corporate Arashmahar was shown as, I don't think that worked very well for D'Hoffryn's character.

I thought the page with all the reactions of the others pinned in place when Xander was being berated/attacked was really good, although Willow in her semi conscious state just looked disinterested in comparison to me. Anyway, I'm not convinced at all his death will stick. He may have been made a ghost and it was a way to keep him 'safe' as Sosa mentions, fake Anya earlier in the season was expressing concern to D'Hoffryn about Xander not getting hurt. I know she was later made vengeful by his abandonment but she may not have wanted him dead still and this was a way to protect him, as ludicrous as that sounds, but we don't reeeeally 'know' what she did, just what she appeared to do. Or Dawn may go dimension hopping to 'find' him. I don't know. Some have suggested Willow was talking telepathically with Anya but I'm not sure why she would have tried that, but I can see the possibility.

I strongly agree with @Priceless that there should be risk though. I thought Fred's end was one of the most powerful things the shows ever did but they undid that this season after so many years after and it was a real disappointment to me. They just had the opportunity to very justifiably dust Dru in A&F too, who is a far smaller character, and I wished they would because her escapes are getting silly and sure enough she was left to run off again for another day. I think it would be really impactful if they really just killed Xander just because it was such a 'meh' way to go and a pointless belittling death, like what happened to Fred due to her natural curiosity, makes the lives they choose to lead have high stakes and it not be all grand heroic moments that can get you. But I have seen and agree with complaints that having Xander basically say he deserves it isn't good. His death may be what it appears to be, but I'm brimful with doubt and expect it to be reversed somehow. Another point often commented on is that even in the same issue D'Hoffryn said such things are within their powers to change so there are plenty of get outs available.

It is going to be a looooong wait for the next issue.
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
@Stoney I hated that they bough Fred back, really hated it. Not because I hate Fred, but the whole concept of her death was so well done, it was such a shame to undo all that heartbreak.

It's hard to make us care for new characters, I understand that, but the writers have to try harder, because just bringing back old characters, no matter how well loved they are, is dull and unimaginative. Can we start a Dust Dru campaign? :)

The more I read the more convinced I am that Xander is either not dead at all, or will be back. The ghost theory sounds plausible. I also wonder if it's possible (and I haven't read this far yet so I don't know the details of his death) that Xand is turned into a vampire? The writers want to 'mature' the characters and I think it'd be ironic if Xand is stuck in his 20's forever and a new way for the story to go.
 

Stoney

Spiked!
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
916
Location
Blighty
I'll back that campaign, definitely! :D As for the vamp idea, I'm afraid Xand appears to end up as a pile of dust so probably not!

I forgot to say earlier in my complaints about the issue and the collective opinion plan, I also don't see why Buffy's conversation with Vicky, that D'Hoffryn looked in on, would count as 'magic stuff' that he could use his expanded powers of perception to find out about? :s
 

Scooby Corps

Fly! Be free, little bird, you defy category!
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
595
Location
Germany
Willow in her semi conscious state just looked disinterested in comparison to me.
Funny with the different perceptions. She actually just looks semi conscious with a note sadness & pain added to me. I think she's supposed to be badly injured and doesn't really realize what's happening around her.

What bothered me was that Xander accepted everything Fake!Anya would do to him and said that he deserved it. Yeah, he hurt her badly and abandoned her but he's human and it's not even the worst thing he had done in S06... aand Anya isn't a complete innocent in S06. Anya was a grown up person. She chose to become a vengeance demon. She chose to get involved with him after she lost her powers. She chose to become a vengeance demon again after he had dumped her. She chose to become human again. She chose to fight evil which had led to her death. I can sympathize with her but that's all not solely Xander's fault and he should know that. It actually felt really OOC when he said that.
 

Stoney

Spiked!
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
916
Location
Blighty
Yes, I'm sure you are right that that was what RI was going for. I don't think she is actually supposed to be disinterested, it just amused me that that was how (out of context) I would have read her expression. I didn't mean to suggest she actually was unaffected. :)

It was ridiculous that Xander just took the blame like he did and said he deserved anything she meted out, especially rubbish as it isn't even the real Anya, but even so without that!
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
6,093
Location
UK
It was ridiculous that Xander just took the blame like he did and said he deserved anything she meted out, especially rubbish as it isn't even the real Anya, but even so without that!
This makes me think it's not even the real Xander. Is that a possibility? Could it be a fake Xander, a bot or from another dimension? Yes, I am grasping as straws here I know, but the way everyone is talking about it I just don't believe it's real, or if it is real it has been so badly done
 

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,794
Age
35
I haven't read the issue yet but how many times does Xander have to apologize for leaving Anya at the altar? Seriously? The issue should be closed since Beneath You:

XANDER
And sooner or later, Anya, that excuse just stops working.

Anya could hate Xander all her life, but dumping her mistakes and choices on his shoulders won't cut it.

Maybe Xander's time in therapy made him take the blame for everything? Wasn't there an earlier issue where he apologized to Angel for beating him after Angel killed Giles? That was... too much IMO.
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
6,057
Location
Canada
Sineya
OK, let's list the possibilities here:

1. Xander actually does die in the sense we know it, where he does not come back.
2. A fake Xander dies and the real one goes undercover on some covert op.
3. Anya pulls him over to her side magically. This could lead to Dawn going dimension-hopping to find him in a multi-dimensional lever's triangle.
4. Xander will become a ghost and reunite with Anya but then gets swept off his feet by Cordelia, setting up a ghostly love triangle.
5. They do some lame spell to bring him back.
6. D'Hoffryn offers the remaining players a choice where he gets to expand the power and influence of Arashmaharr in return for bringing Xander back.
7. He gets reborn like Giles.
8. He becomes a centaur and Dawn reverts as well, so they can gallop off into the sunset.

There are more possibilities, but as things usually go in the Whedonverse, Item 1 above is unlikely and Item 5 may even be too lame for the comic writers. So @sosa lola, you can stop crying now because nothing ever ends the way it seems.
 
sosa lola
sosa lola
That does give me hope. Thank you.

GoSpuffy

Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
2,490
Location
Vancouver, BC
Black Thorn
I'm with majority here, it won't stick, it shouldn't stick, but at the same time it is getting way to repetitive that deaths don't stick.
 

GoSpuffy

Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
2,490
Location
Vancouver, BC
Black Thorn
Finally read and what I noticed is right at the beginning of the book D'Hoffryn is listing off the things VD can do and includes bringing people back to life. Also, we don't see Xanders body, highly possible he's not dead at all. I hope so, this way we can avoid bringing someone back to life yet again, just bring him back from where he is being hid on another plain.
 

Scooby Corps

Fly! Be free, little bird, you defy category!
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
595
Location
Germany
Also, we don't see Xanders body
But there's a pile of ash. Why should there be a pile of ash?

As for obvious cop-out implications in this issue. Either somebody makes a wish (I'd bet on Dawn) and Fake!Jonathan (he is a vengeance demon right?) or Fake!Anya grant it.... oooor Xander ends up a ghost and Willow pulls a 'Lindsey' on him. In both cases, he would've been dead, so it's still a resurrection.
 

GoSpuffy

Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
2,490
Location
Vancouver, BC
Black Thorn
But there's a pile of ash. Why should there be a pile of ash?

As for obvious cop-out implications in this issue. Either somebody makes a wish (I'd bet on Dawn) and Fake!Jonathan (he is a vengeance demon right?) or Fake!Anya grant it.... oooor Xander ends up a ghost and Willow pulls a 'Lindsey' on him. In both cases, he would've been dead, so it's still a resurrection.
The big pile of dust could be to fool D'Hoffryn. Maybe there will be more clues in #30. Joss always liked to keep us guessing on what was really going, for example, some people still don't think Spike purposely fought for his soul because of all the misdirection.
 

TONER

Townie
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
24
I don't think Xander's really dead. The phrasing and posturing of the issue suggests something else is going on. First of all, Anya does step in to do whatever it is she does versus the certain death D'Hoffryn would give. So it seems like she could be protecting him (at least somewhat), because it seems like this fake ghost Anya is extremely vengeful for things that happened... a long time ago. The wedding thing is so old and honestly they should really all be over it. Xander should have had a reaction more similar to Buffy's-- he should stand up for himself!

Anyway, this exchange caught my eye:
upload_2016-7-21_15-59-50.png

Anya doesn't say anything after this until her "Master, wait" moment and she kills him. So sure maybe this could all be some elaborate plan to make us think she'll do the right thing and step into save him, but it seems more likely that she's thinking about alternates to killing him-- whether because as other people said earlier, that she doesn't want to hurt him (from her statements earlier this season) or because she's trying to inflict more pain.

Then of course there's the particular language of "He made me a ghost. So now I've made him one." The he made me a ghost part is her blaming him for her death (also really stupid by the way). So I've made him one + pile of ash just seems like he's dead. But I think ghost!Xander is just going to show up next issue as some way of changing things up for his character for the heck of it, instead of killing him for the heck of it. I would guess he'll be more like Spike on Angel season 5 than Anya this season as some weird maybe-figment of Xander's.

Or maybe he'll show up next season if they really want to put in some fake suspense. Either way, I'm pretty fine with Xander's death... or should we say change. I am much less okay with Fred's reincarnation on Angel and Faith. It seems like they had no plan for her as a character, and it's kind of an insult to A Hole in the World's perfection. Deaths have definitely a lot less weight these days. Next they'll bring Tara back just for drama... smh.
 
Top Bottom