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Discussion of Buffy 12.01 - Released 6/20/18 (Dark Horse)

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
Joined
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Texas
Black Thorn
Maybe because Buffy wasn't actually invested in the relationship so there was no urgency/need for her to address the issues.
But maybe things changed when she told Spike 'I love you.' It made the whole thing real for her but didn't change how she felt or would ever feel about Spike. That basically she would never love him despite maybe wanting to love him. She thought saying the works would magically make it true becasue why wouldn't it? After so long together.
And as the year rolled on with zero in the way of evil or slaying drama to distract her from the big, bad future coming her way she finally had to come to the realization that it would never work.
Somebody should write a little fan-fic about that, say set right at the end of S11...:D

It’s a hard sell that she wasn’t invested and although I don’t personally understand it I think the story is pretty clear she loves him. But love isn’t always enough.

But from a fan fic perspective I’m all over your concept! ;)
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I wonder if they are planning to do anything interesting with Wilkins, or if he is just there for some extra fluff. It is a bit odd for him to attack Faith, methinks, after being so distraught at seeing her in the hospital.
 

RomanticSoul

Frell Me
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2,337
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Germany
Primarily, I honestly believe that the major "why" is just because Joss came back, or, at least, took time from his otherwise busy schedule to toss a Baby Ruth (that's a reference to "Caddy Shack," in case you missed it) into the Spuffy swimming pool.

Of course, the issue of Buffy being single, and Angel being back, but with a new significant other, could lead to some interesting moments, especially if the moment of happiness clause is no longer an issue. ( I know, that hasn't been addressed, but you just know that it'll come up)
Unless Joss suddenly changed (fat chance), I don't see the big problem really. The guy champions Spike and Spuffy. If this is the last main Buffy title for a while, I actually expect him to wrap it up in some fashion. And lets face it, Whedon is nothing but totally predictable in his issues. The temporary breakup of Spuffy due to a craving for 'normalcy' on lets say Buffy's end, leads to the predictable turning human of Spike. Because again, Angel hate/Bangel meh-ness and Spike/Spuffy love is Whedon through and through. So we know it won't end with B/A (not after what the comics have done and not with Whedon) and the chances of Angel dying and Spike getting the Shanshu (aka humanity) is pretty much a 'DUH' kind of scenario. So yeah, I don't get the outcry of some (not here of course) because Whedon has his faves that everyone knows and he's predictable after all these years, not like he's ever gotten treatment for his psychological issues...
 

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Texas
Black Thorn
I wonder if they are planning to do anything interesting with Wilkins, or if he is just there for some extra fluff. It is a bit odd for him to attack Faith, methinks, after being so distraught at seeing her in the hospital.

Yeah this is especially strange because even if you could make the argument that well he was still "partly human" or hybrid in the hospital, Buffy uses his "human weakness" after he ascends. But maybe it's been long enough so that he is over it?

Anyway here is an interesting tweet. Not sure what you all would make of this:

 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Sineya
It’s a hard sell that she wasn’t invested and although I don’t personally understand it I think the story is pretty clear she loves him.

I think its clear that Buffy thought she was in love with Spike, or maybe wanted to be very badly, but you can't make yourself feel something that you don't. And people just don't 'break up'; there are either external factors (like with Angel; curse, vampire, destiny, etc), a combination of external and internal factors like with Briley (Riley's feeling of isolation, vamp suck-jobs, Spike, Dawn, sick Joyce, Glory, Initiative) or- like what we have here- a complete absense of external pressures and things just 'don't work'.
That last one is tough and can only be internal conflicts; feelings that are or are not there. I find it strange that Spike- a big romantic type- would have his feelings for Buffy wane just as she says the 'L' word. So that just leaves Buffy's feelings for Spike, which- like I said- have always been ambivalent.

It's very likely that- if we're to believe what Buffy stated this issue- she didn't feel like it was a relationship worth continuing, strange as that is.

Having said that, like @RomanticSoul has said, it could just be that Joss is trolling the fans for drama until Buffy sees the light in the last issue and settles down with human-Spike.

Of course the other possibility is that its the natural ending to dating a vampire. Vampires are ageless and even the souled ones can be so slow moving, kind of static when compared to how mortals change over time.
So if that case then its a good thing Angel left when he did or maybe Buffy would've been the one giving him 'the talk' around S5...


But from a fan fic perspective I’m all over your concept!

You already wrote it; Buffy, Faith, the rooftop, the discussion about the 'I love you too'. That's what I was referring to. ;)
 

white avenger

white avenger
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I just now read the story, and, whatever else we get from it, we know from Buffy's statement that, "I'm thirty," the time has to be between 2012 and 2013, depending on the month.

And I really hope that we see that blue four armed monkey guarding the Watchers' Archives again. There just HAS to be an interesting back story associated with that critter.
 

DagonSphere

Potential
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Feb 24, 2018
Messages
242
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33
You know, I am such a mega Buffy nerd, but after season eight, I gave up on the comics entirely, I just thought they were so bad. But once in a while, I see some cool artwork - in this case the pretty cool covers - and I think to myself, maybe, maybe I should give the comics another shot, but then I read some spoilers and I just can't bother. Angel and Illyria as a couple? Are you kidding me??? As if pairing up Xander and Dawn, killing Giles and bringing him back as a kid, Angel as Twilight, Buffy just being stuck with Spike rather than moving forward wasn't bad enough, but they always seem to top themselves with even more ridiculous developments. For me, the comics will not ever be canon.
 

NileQT87

Billowy Coat, King of Pain
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
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514
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34
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San Diego, CA, USA
The most obnoxious thing in this comic is the fact that every character is drawn the exact same height. Something is seriously wrong when Angel and Giles (the most obvious examples of being taller than everyone else in that room) vs. Buffy, Spike, Illyria, etc... are the same height. Georges Jeanty really needs to check CelebHeights once in a while.

Panels of Angel, Spike and Buffy where everyone is the same height just come across as surreal. When did Angel become Jonathan?
 
GreyWalker1958
GreyWalker1958
Least Joss and Dark Horse never hired Richard Corbin. Otherwise everyone would be dwarf sized with odd heads

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Sineya
Panels of Angel, Spike and Buffy where everyone is the same height just come across as surreal. When did Angel become Jonathan?

Maybe the artist made the mistake of watching 'Superstar' and thought that was Angel; 'yep, black billow-y coat, slow-mo shots of him walking towards the camera...huh, kinda shorter than I remember...'
 
G

gnarl

Guest
my initial reaction: (Soilers of course but also why are you on this forum if you don't want spoilers?) I'm late to this, but I was away an could only read it today.

The build-up in the Fray-verse over the first few pages is exiting. I'm generally nervous of time travel narratives because I feel like if you can just jump backwards and forwards in time then nothing really matters because everything can change, but here they've set out some clear rules for how this time travel thing works, you can only jump between present day and a specific time in the Fray-verse so hopefully they won't be running around in 1997 and messing with season 1 or something.

I am a little confused as to why Harth has such a clear memory of all the slayers when Buffy only get vague dreams and premonitions. Is it because he didn't get any of the other slayer powers?

I like Buffy cooing over little Joyce, even if she looks like some of this weird renaissance babies in some of the panels.Screen Shot 2018-06-27 at 3.51.07 PM.pngScreen Shot 2018-06-27 at 3.50.05 PM.png
That brings me to the art, I'm really missing Rebecca Isaacs here. It's like the creative team decided that faces where only sometimes necessary and that eyeballs only sometimes look in the same direction. Come on Guys! in some of the panels Buffy is so pretty and in others she looks like a pancake.

The exchange between Spike and Buffy is… weird. "out for a walk bitch" who makes random references to something you said to someone once 8 years ago, out of context? It seemed forced to me but I guess that's the point, they're trying to be friends again and it's still awkward.
Is Illyria being possessed by the ghost of Anya? her dialogue is eerily similar.
Having said that, there is some nice dialogue. Xander "speaking for the patriarchy" I found amusing because he gets so much flack for that.
"let's change the future by hitting it really hard." Oh Buffy :)
I'm also a fan of the Fray-verse slang.

I wish they went a bit further into Willow's organisation before announcing that it was under attack by every bad guy ever. All we've heard about it is that there's a blog with hair-care advice. I believe that people would be threatened by a Magic Feminist Movement/Slayer Army but we have no idea what they are actually doing to get that kind of attention.

I don't know how I feel about Mayor Wilkins being back in the mix, I thought bringing D'hoffryn in worked really well in season 10 so I will hold my judgement for now.

This whole time travel thing brings up some interesting ideas about determinism and free will, which is one of the continuing themes in Buffy. When Spike says "I refuse to believe that we don't have any bloody choice in what we do" it reminded me of Buffy's speech to Ford in season 2 "you have a choice, you don't have a good choice but you have a choice". BtVS has always advocating for making the best choice you can and dealing with the consequences of your actions. These ideas have always played out interestingly against Buffy's role as the Chosen One, someone with a capitol D, Destiny. Here, Buffy's fate is written in stone (maybe literally), and what do you when you can't escape fate? you go into the future and change it!
But oh no! the Fray sisters are here, they've got guns and they're not about to role over and let Buffy disappear their reality!
They are also looking good!
Who do you think with hook up with Melaka? Buffy, Faith or Spike?

All in all, I'll definitely read the next issue but I'm not sold on it yet, season 11 set up some interesting ideas but didn't quite follow through on them, I hope the same doesn't happen here.
 

white avenger

white avenger
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Is this supposed to be negative or positive?

Neither, actually. Saying that Whedon is more involved with the series again is just saying that, whatever the relationship is, he's gonna meddle with it, or even mess it up altogether. Buffy and Spike were perfectly happy last Season, and the rest of the gang seems to have finally accepted them being together. Angel and Illyria were at least as good a team as he and Faith were without any emotional baggage to drag them down.

Now, the lovers are a fighting team and the fighting team are, apparently, lovers.
It's the ol' Whedon flip flop, all over again.
 

The Bronze

Rogue Demon Hunter
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Well they've certainty chucked the kitchen sink into this opening. I think it's a decent set up for what will hopefully be an epic ending.

The Good

Giles is back. Kid Giles has been a disaster so I don't care that it happened off screen. Looks like they fixed his vision and made him younger than before but close enough.

We have a time scale. The gang are 30 so time has moved on and they won't be mid twenties forever. Following on from that baby Joyce is a nice addition. It shows they're living their lives as they would in the show.

Harth is great. A smart baddie with an edge over the gang. Feels like a real threat.

Some nice dialogue in here at times as well. Spike calling Angel a wanker amused me.

Buffy being single. I think we might get to see Buffy decide what she wants one way or another and that will be better coming from her being single to start with.

The bad

Angel & Ilyria. Just no. Should have ditched this between seasons as it's just stupid.

The hero's are a bit over powered. Between Willow Dawn and Ilyria they can damn near bend reality to their will. Not sure why they don't just smash the baddies completely.

Also I'm not sure about bringing back another old bad guy. It makes sense that the mayor would be hard to kill but we've seen everyone returning and it gets a bit tired.
 
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