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Discussion of Buffy 12.04 - Released 9/19/18 (Dark Horse)

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
Joined
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Black Thorn
Buffy, Fray, the Scoobies, and the Slayers are in an epic battle against Harth, and his army of baddies. His attempt to steal the power of the Slayers has brought Buffy and her crew to the turning point that they have been trying desperately to avoid. With all other options spent, it is only Buffy and her sacrifice that can save the world . . .



Source: Dark Horse
 
HowiMetdaSlayer
HowiMetdaSlayer
*can't wait*

Grace

Destructo-Girl
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Messages
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Black Thorn
Overall, I thought the issue was...not that good. I mean, not terrible, but the resolution after three issues of buildup was just a big nothingburger. But that's par for the course with the comics. Season 11 really petered out at the end, too (and Season 8 devolved into a mess....and...I could go on). These comics have never really been worthy of the BtVS name in terms of the writing.

However, there were some moments that I really liked. Faith and Buffy especially. They are adorable. And I thought Buffy's moment with Angel was sweet. I would have liked a Core Four element, but I guess the Core Four isn't really a thing anymore.

A few panels I liked under the spoiler!





 
Antho
Antho
"These comics have never really been worthy of the BtVS name in terms of the writing." MY feelings, exactly !
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I liked that the slayer memories killed Harth. Each slayer inherits and becomes part of a struggle for emancipation from the Watcher's council. We don't know much about the past slayers, but we know that the Chinese slayer had to abandon her mother and Nina was unable to be there for Robin. Buffy ends this fight by breaking free from The Council and activating the latent power in the potentials. Having to experience this generation-spanning struggle is too much for Harth, being a mere man :p, so it kills him.

There is just one thing that does not make sense her to me. Why does Buffy and Faith join the police? They have Willow's centre, they have Andrew's ambition to rebuild the Watcher's and they have an army of slayers. Buffy has always worked independently, following her own moral compass. Why is she selling out her super powers to the government and how does that help create the utopia future we see?

This Supernatural Division of the police sounds a lot like a government initiative to fight vampires and demons, and the last time Buffy joined one of those, it didn't exactly work out.
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Because they look incredibly hot in those uniforms? Sorry...how shallow of me!
I just had this vision flash before my eyes of Buffy and Faith coming in to comfort Angel, Faith carrying a boom blaster on her shoulder.
 

SupportOGal

The Earth is doomed.
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USA
Is anyone able to do a little recap for the poor souls who won't be able to make it to the comic shop for at least another week? o_O
 

Antho

Scooby
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So Spike and Buffy are still not together ? After the break-up, I expected them to be reunite at the last moment.. So Buffy ended alone ? or maybe finally @thetopher has Fuffy in a canon way lol
 
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
It could go in any direction. Fanfic writers can rejoice.
thetopher
thetopher
Fuffy's are rejoicing! It's about as good as we could've hoped for; Buffy and Faith as 'partners'.

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Black Thorn
General spoiler points for those who are interested:

  • Illyria goes to hell, takes demons with her and asks Dawn to close the portal. She gives Angel a kiss before that (doesn't look very romantic - he looks shocked by the kiss) but he looks very devastated at her sacrificing herself.
  • Harth begins to have problems with the slayer memories. He begins to feel - idk something. While he is incapacitated in this way, Buffy kills Harth with the help of Mel
  • Slayers get their powers back.
  • Mel and Erin go back to a new and bright future. No one knows them, including Gunther but there are new slayers in this future and they are now their new family.
  • Buffy and Faith join the police academy. They seem on friendly terms. Good set up for your next Fuffy fic.
  • Xander mentions Dawn is back in school.
  • Willow's center is focused on preventing the problems they saw in the future. (That's it... that's all Willow gets... sigh).
  • Buffy has a moment with Spike in which she once again wants to make sure they are ok, she tells him that seeing all of them ready to give up their lives for the fight warmed her heart and she wants to make sure they are all happy and together. Spike assures her that he is not going anywhere, and that she is the one who will get old and die. Spike says that the group and her especially bring out the best in him and she says that goes for her to and she calls him William Pratt....again.
  • Buffy finds Angel in a dark room. She tells him that they are ready to go after Illyria. But Illyria told him not to go after her. Illyria told him to "know happiness." He is worried that when he does go and find her, Illyria won't want to leave. But he will wait for her (to do what she needs to do in hell), he has time because he is immortal.
  • Buffy asks him what his plans are and he hesitantly says he wanted to stay there if she doesn't mind. Buffy hugs him and tells him that's dumb and "who doesn't want the people they love around." They walk out of the room together.
  • Spike Angel and Buffy walk out into the front yard where your standard comic book cookout is going on. Everyone is happy.
  • The end.
I'm trying to find the motivation to review this and I just feel like eh.... idk... it's just so blah. But it's... fine. Whatever.
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
So Illyria wanted Angel to become Angelus again? Because that's what happens when he knows "happiness".

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Sineya
Obviously the writers didn't want to upset anyone so nobody died (apart from *cough cough* who nobody seems surprised/torn up by).

But the Buffy and Faith become cops together is...In one context can be seen as a coded Fuffy ending, since Spuffy has officially been played out by now (and let for fic writers to describe the yawn-worthy break-up we all didn't see) and Angel- yet again- having something to brood about.
 

TriBel

Scooby
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Manchester
Predictable ! They did the same thing in "Chosen". Five seasons later and still the same conclusion.
a little disappointing and a waste of time
I think there were several callbacks to Chosen. Spike seems to be given lines very similar to Angel's.

Spike in The Reckoning: "you're the one who's going to die of old age...I ain't going anywhere".
Angel (in Chosen) "I ain't getting any older". (walks away)

The last scene could be a call-back to the last night in Revello when she stood alone on the steps looking out.

Andrew and Giles are playing Scrabble - which sort of mirrors the D&D game in Chosen. Giles' loose tiles spell out Joss. On the board is Goodbye and several references to the show (Clem is one of them).

can be seen as a coded Fuffy ending
It wasn't that coded - there's a big banner saying "Congratulations Buffy and Faith".:) I thought the scene outside the academy was rather undone by Dark Horse logo behind them. Sort of flags up the fictionality of the story.
 

Antho

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I think there were several callbacks to Chosen. Spike seems to be given lines very similar to Angel's.

Spike in The Reckoning: "you're the one who's going to die of old age...I ain't going anywhere".
Angel (in Chosen) "I ain't getting any older". (walks away)

The last scene could be a call-back to the last night in Revello when she stood alone on the steps looking out.

Andrew and Giles are playing Scrabble - which sort of mirrors the D&D game in Chosen. Giles' loose tiles spell out Joss. On the board is Goodbye and several references to the show (Clem is one of them).
Very similar yes.


I do not know maybe that's just me but about the whole Bangel/Spuffy thing I'm kind of happy with the way "Chosen" left things. I love the "cookie dough" speech, interesting analogy and it left the door opens to hope for us Bangels fans. Spuffy get their "I Love You" and the symbolism of the love who is eternal and burning like flames is meaningful, such a beautiful moment. In the end, Angel left, Spike dies (and then came back in Angel) and Buffy moved on. I like that ending because everyone have what they want in a way. But you can't do 5 more seasons, put Spuffy together, made them break-up and then give again hope to the Bangel/Spuffy even Fuffy fans... What the show needed is a definitive closure on that subject ! I do not know I feel like a little manipulation on the part of the producers as if they were taking the fans for tools. Anyway for me this conclusion worked on "Chosen" but it can't work five seasons later.
 
K
katmobile
Or maybe you can. Part of the reason I'm going to get the comics is to read between the lines but until we get new canon we're free to make up our own. I've been head cannoning Andrew and Clive since I read the end of season ten. I can do the same.

The Ferg

Scooby
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Omaha, NE
Eh, I liked it... It was actually... happy? Like things actually turned out okay and no one important died? I did not see that coming.

I think S12 exemplified Dark Horse's "reign" on Buffy pretty well. It was fun, not great, with some exceptional moments, character bits, and dialogue, but ultimately simply not as good as the show. S8 was a crap-shoot, S9 was a solid 3/5, S10 was slightly better (apparently some people disagree), S11 was really good but short, and all of the Angel stuff ranged from crap to average (excluding A&FS9, which is A+). Seeing as I've prepared myself for what to expect when it comes to Dark Horse Buffyverse comics, for the last decade, I got exactly what I was expecting to get. I think I'll like and appreciate it more upon a reread, but as of now, even though it I didn't love S12, I'm glad it exists. It was a $16 well spent, and a fitting end to a sometimes beautiful, sometimes frustrating, but ultimately enjoyable run of 111+ issues.

That said, my body is so ready for a fresh new start. There's no reason why the Buffyverse (and the Whedonverse, as a whole), isn't a thriving, mid-level comic franchise with multiple ongoings, mini-series, one-shots, and events. In some ways, I think Dark Horse (and maybe Whedon himself) has been holding the franchise back this whole time. IDW might have went overboard, but they had the right idea with Angel and Spike. Just TRY. Throw stuff out there and see what sticks. See if you can build a proper universe that can then be used to launch other books. Anything's possible, and I think the fanbase has proven that they're going to show up for a quality product.
 
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