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Do you believe what Angel does for Darla in The Trial?

LilahFan

Townie
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
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35
Yeah I don't think he'd have ever been in love with her but he did care about her, and deep down I think despite everything they did as evil vampires together he was grateful that she turned him because if not for her he would have likely died in a bar or something all those decades ago as a no good bum who his father despised.

I think he always wanted her on his side fighting evil. Even on Buffy. If I remember correctly he hesitated at killing her on that show but had to in order to protect the Slayer. Then all those years later when she comes back as a human he saw the chance to save her so he took it again.

If he had the chance to make her a vampire with a soul I think he'd have done it in a heart beat but he knew that turning her would only make her a threat again.
 

EarthLogic

Scooby
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Black Thorn
deep down I think despite everything they did as evil vampires together he was grateful that she turned him because if not for her he would have likely died in a bar or something all those decades ago as a no good bum who his father despised.
I wouldn't say that:

ANGEL: "It's gift. - Too feel that heart beat - to know, really and for once, that you're alive. - You're human again, Darla. You know what that means?"
DARLA: "Of course I do. It means pain and suffering - and disease and death. - Look, I released you from this world once, I gave you eternal life. Now it's time for you to return the favor."
(Angel backs away a step, just looking at her)
ANGEL: "Favor - is that what you think? - You think you did me a favor? - You damned me."

I think the horror of what he did as an evil vampire weighs far too heavily on Angel for him to be grateful for being turned.
 

LilahFan

Townie
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I wouldn't say that:

ANGEL: "It's gift. - Too feel that heart beat - to know, really and for once, that you're alive. - You're human again, Darla. You know what that means?"
DARLA: "Of course I do. It means pain and suffering - and disease and death. - Look, I released you from this world once, I gave you eternal life. Now it's time for you to return the favor."
(Angel backs away a step, just looking at her)
ANGEL: "Favor - is that what you think? - You think you did me a favor? - You damned me."

I think the horror of what he did as an evil vampire weighs far too heavily on Angel for him to be grateful for being turned.
I get that but I mean I think he's grateful that it led to him getting to become a champion so he could save the helpless from having to go through things that Angelus put so many through all those years ago.

A blessing in disguise I should say. He'd love to be human again so that he could have been with Buffy, Cordelia or someone else but when it comes down to it someone had to be there for the people at night.
 

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Black Thorn
I get that but I mean I think he's grateful that it led to him getting to become a champion so he could save the helpless from having to go through things that Angelus put so many through all those years ago.
I would disagree. I think ultimately he did the best with the situation he was dealt (being a vampire with a soul) and that resulted in helping people. But I don’t think there was ever a moment he was grateful for being made a vampire. I don’t think he’d think the end justified the means.

The Trial is one of my favorite episodes. It really shows you Angel’s character. You see he does think Darla damned him. She represents all of his biggest regrets, the torture he inflicted on countless lives. And to me it’s pretty evident that he needs her to be redeemed. Because if the root of all of his damnation can be redeemed, then maybe he too can be redeemed. That’s why it was so important.

And of course, Darla is human at this point. And Angel thinks humanity is a precious gift that shouldn’t be wasted. So it makes perfect sense that Angel would chose to die to let her live and have a second chance at life.
 
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Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Black Thorn
If he had the chance to make her a vampire with a soul I think he'd have done it in a heart beat
I find myself disagreeing with this as well. I don’t think Angel would ever impose a soul on a vampire. He know first hand the immense weight of the evil transgressions on the soul. It would be tantamount to inflicting torture on the soul in his eyes. He would kill Darla before ensouling her. But when he meets Darla she is already ensouled (albeit human). So once again, as is the premise of AtS, he doesn’t really ask the “why’s” he just sets out to help her adjust and find meaning in her new life.
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
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East of Trouble
He spent centuries with her. He spent centuries connected to her and obsessed with her.

Even though his love for her is not normal love, i think in his own sick way his feelings for her were absolute. She was his sire. Then suddenly, she was a fragile human, helpless and dying... and he was the big hero who 'had to' do something about it. Who knows what Jasmine might have had to do with getting that ball rolling? No Angel and Darla means no Connor...

Anyway, Angel. He was also utterly obsessed and turned around because of the manipulation of Wolfram and Hart. Remember how crazy he had gotten? Alienating his friend sand chasing after her like a... crazy person. It seems after all, that's a large portion of why they brought her back in the first place. To move Angel from the 'good' side of the ledger to the evil. But it backfired. Though he almost got his team killed and his darkness becomes much clearer to us (when the lawyers die at the hands of Dru and Darla, we see just how dark) - but he fought FOR Darla's human soul and human life. His obsession was sublimated into the ultimate act of self-sacrifice.

It would have been one heck of a story arc had he succeeded and they had to figure out what to do with Julie Benz, the human Darla. :)

Angel was obsessive and heroic. He would never have let someone die knowing he could save them... particularly not his own sire. She was part of his life for more than a human lifetime. She made him. It wasn't a gift exactly... but it means they're deeply and irrevocably connected.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I find myself disagreeing with this as well. I don’t think Angel would ever impose a soul on a vampire. He know first hand the immense weight of the evil transgressions on the soul. It would be tantamount to inflicting torture on the soul in his eyes. He would kill Darla before ensouling her. But when he meets Darla she is already ensouled (albeit human). So once again, as is the premise of AtS, he doesn’t really ask the “why’s” he just sets out to help her adjust and find meaning in her new life.
I think I see what @LilahFan means. Darla was a human with a soul but dying, she wanted to be made a vampire again so she could live but the cost was that she would lose her soul again. Angel making her a vampire with a soul would theoretically be the perfect middle ground. Darla get to live but she also has a soul so isn't going to kill. It would've certainly set up an interesting dynamic since Angel and Darla would've had something in common, both being vampires with a soul, how would Buffy have reacted to that?

Also wasn't it implied that, since Angel was souled when he sired Sam Lawson, that Sam kind of couldn't give in to his evil vampire instincts because of that. He wanted to but couldn't.

Darla is a unique case because she already had the soul and was dealing with her past misdeeds, rather than Angel putting a soul in her or any of the Whirlwind like the gypsies did to him.

As for Angel imposing a soul on a vampire, I could see him attempting to do it to Drusilla in a misguided attempt of redeeming her and by extension himself for what he did to her. However, equally, I could see him not doing it to her because of what he put her through, he'd think she'd suffered enough. It all depends on Angel's motivations, if he's selfishly motivated then he could see it as a chance to try and wipe the slate clean for the worst thing he did, if he wasn't being selfish, then he'd have to acknowledge the fact that Drusilla is a lost cause because of him and something that he can never ever make up for.
 

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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I stand by what I said. Angel would not agree to make anyone a vampire (with a soul or not) unless dire circumstances required it (see Sam Lawson). In his eyes, soul or no soul he would be damning them. I think it is wholly antithetical to how Angel views life/death/humanity/vampirism etc.

But I'll concede we all read characters differently. That is very obvious because I think my read of Angel is he would sooner set himself on fire before giving Drusilla a soul, having her face all that she had done for hundreds of years, after all that he had put her through when he had no soul.

“When you become a vampire the demon takes your body, but it doesn’t get your soul. That’s gone. No conscience, no remorse… It’s an easy way to live. You have no idea what it’s like to have done the things I’ve done… and to care.”
 

DeepBlueJoy

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Angel would and did turn anyone (Lawson) if the reason as HE saw fit was worth it. He was an extremely ruthless person AEB him killing the lawyers in that basement (yes, Dru and Darla did it, but he facilitated it with forethought and malice simply because he was angry and thought they weren't good people.) He was right, they were bad people. Still, he appointed himself judge, jury and executioner. He believes himself to be the law.

I do love Angel, but I don't romanticize him or see him as fault free. He's a very flawed hero. A hero, nevertheless and worth watching, but he can be very ruthless and very petty and very reckless. He answered only to himself. Some of his decisions are deeply moral, but some of them are almost purely ego or anger based. Some, particularly those concerning Darla and Connor were obsessional. These impulses make him capable of some very nasty stuff. Including killing a pure and heroic innocent in order to get in with the Black Thorn.

He may care he's done bad things, but he still let Dru live to keep killing and he still walked out on the hotel full of people and let the demon take them because they pissed him off. He only agreed to help the war effort when forced to it by the DRI, but frankly, I think he was right to be reluctant, given what they were up to.

He becomes a hero, it seems mostly because of Buffy. Before that, he's a vampire with a soul, but without that much of a moral compass. He even ran with the other three vampires for a while after getting his soul. The soul matters, but it isn't a hero maker in and of itself.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
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Sep 11, 2017
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My guess is, Angel understands he is probably going to hell, redemption or no. Death is pretty much it for a vampire, and while we may see Liam/Angel/us as three separate beings, Angel doesn't. A deal with the Powers to selflessly sacrifice his life for another is probably the only way he can get to heaven now, aside from the Shanshu, so he is looking for such an opportunity. Until then, the deal he made with Whistler stands, he will fight as a champion until released from his service.
 
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