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Do you think Cordelia and Doyle are soul mates?

Fool for Buffy

I'm just being a big nerd again
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Sineya
They had some sweet moments but I don't know that I would go close to that far. Pretty romantic ending though. Anyway I'm not sure I believe in soulmates, so I don't know if that is shielding me from seeing what you are seeing between the two.
 

Mrs Gordo

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Black Thorn
No. Unfortunately, Cordy never got a good love interest. Don't get me wrong she doesn't need a man but it would have been nice to give her someone that was head over heels for her without making masogenistic sexual innuendos like Doyle. (Calling her a stiffener for example).
 

Ethan Reigns

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Sineya
Doyle was a horrible individual who deliberately inflicted his visions on Cordelia then dying and leaving her to face the consequences. Cordelia was forced to make the choice of increasing pain and debility leading to death or acceptance of demon possession which would enable her to survive. Cordelia chose demon possession, giving me the impression that Doyle was the leading edge of the eventual Jasmine story. There are a number of people who think Buffy was horrible to give slayer powers to unsuspecting girls all over the world (I am not among them) even though they were being hunted by the bringers. What Doyle did is far worse - he crippled Cordelia with visions that were not survivable as a human.

Soul mates? Soul destroyer is more like it.
 

Priceless

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No. They do say opposites attract, but Cordy and Doyle are so different I cannot imagine them working in the long term.
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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Sorry - I know this is super old and I shouldn't really resurrect a dead thread but ... I'm with you S Rou. Definitely. They are my OTP and I have written hundreds of thousands of words of fanfiction dedicated to them and how awesome they are as a couple.

'stiffener' is Joss Whedon's misogyny - not Doyle's - just as all the characters bandying around the 'R' word is a problem with the writers and not the characters, themselves. It's such an appalling term - that is passed off as meant to be funny (and in the director's commentary DG and JW actually congratulate themselves on its use) it just shows the lack of boundaries in the writer's room. They aren't trying to make him a misogynist, it's just they have no concept of what is appropriate and what is beyond the pale. Misogyny is not meant to be a part of his character - and there is nothing else he does or says that provides further evidence that it is a part of his character. That one line really can be chalked down to JW and DG being gross. They think they're being funny. It isn't fair to hate on Doyle because in this one instance (for him) they miss the mark and fail so miserably. (Though, man do I feel sorry for Glenn Quinn having to deliver that line.)

And Doyle did not deliberately inflict his visions on anyone - least of all Cordy. He kissed her because he was about to die, and this was goodbye - not because he intended to pass the visions on. They were his punishment and his atonement - they were horribly painful, of course he would not give them to a person he cared about. There is no way he could know it would happen - he didn't receive the visions by kissing, they just hit him one day, out of the blue. I know some characters talk like he did it on purpose - especially in Parting Gifts - but they're not Doyle. They are talking about a reality where Cordy now has the visions and are working out why. Nobody ever asks him if he meant to do it. But there is absolutely no reason he would think kissing her would do that, and absolutely no reason he would willingly give her those visions. If he knew the consequences in advance, I'm sure he would have foregone the kiss.

Doyle is completely Cordelia's type - though she doesn't want him to be. He's like an older Xander; funny, kind and brave. Only unlike Xander he doesn't see her as second best (or third best - Cordy complains that he is more interested in Willow than her as far back as 'Phases') . He would need to sort himself out before he could be with her though - Cordy doesn't want to be with a self loathing border line alcoholic with bad gambling debts.
I think they worked really well as a (potential) couple. The actors had great chemistry - and the characters just seemed to get one another. They could see each other exactly as they were and accepted it. If you compare the things Xander used to say to her to the way Doyle treats her... he never belittles her, or calls her names or makes rude comments about the outfits she's wearing. He doesn't get pissy with her when she goes out with other men (because he wasn't entitled to). He respected her right to make her own decisions, and respected her intelligence and he seemed to think her blunt honesty was endearing more than it was something to talk down to her about and think badly of her for. He likes her straightforwardness and respects the way she runs the office. He even admires the fact she is better at throwing than he is.
On her part - she could see how brave he was, she thought he was interesting, it didn't matter to her that he was a demon. She could see all the good in him that he couldn't see in himself.
And when they were together they just smiled and laughed so much. They were completely comfortable around each other from the beginning and completely in tune and they worked well together. And even though they are both into the other - they never go out of their way to try and impress each other. They are always completely themselves around each other - they have a really honest friendship (apart from Doyle's half demon secret - but that is personal information that he does not have to share with anybody he doesn't want to) they don't put on a facade, or try to be something they're not.
It's such a shame they didn't get more time together, because they would have brought the best out of each other and softened each others edges. Even Charisma Carpenter is a bit of a Doyle and Cordy shipper.
 
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
I'm all about the revival of old threads when they produce great responses like this.
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
I don't think the term 'stiffener' is inherently misogynistic any more than calling someone 'attractive.' It is just a slightly more vulgar way of saying exactly the same thing. Doyle is a very tropish character who tries to hide his heart of gold, because he messed up his marriage and failed to save those demons, so it makes sense for him to be a bit vulgar.

The thing that bothers me about Doyle is that he treats Cordelia a bit too much like a puzzle box.
 

NeonSlayer

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Doyle was a horrible individual who deliberately inflicted his visions on Cordelia then dying and leaving her to face the consequences. Cordelia was forced to make the choice of increasing pain and debility leading to death or acceptance of demon possession which would enable her to survive. Cordelia chose demon possession, giving me the impression that Doyle was the leading edge of the eventual Jasmine story. There are a number of people who think Buffy was horrible to give slayer powers to unsuspecting girls all over the world (I am not among them) even though they were being hunted by the bringers. What Doyle did is far worse - he crippled Cordelia with visions that were not survivable as a human.

Soul mates? Soul destroyer is more like it.
No, Cordelia wasn't forced. That's why she hid the affects from everyone in the group. She knew they could remove the visions or transfer them to someone who's body could handle them. She ignored her best options and opted for becoming part of another species because it meant she was allowed to keep the visions. She'd rather die with the visions than live without the visions.

If Doyle could've seen what was happening, he'd advise her to give them up and that she didn't need borrowed power to be Queen C. Cordelia didn't feel needed or important without the visions. Probably because since coming to LA she went from being a big fish in a small pond to one of many pretty faces.
 

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
I did not feel they were soul mates, but I would not object to have had their relationship fleshed out. He was a better match than Angel, Xander or Wes
 

NeddaSai

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He's my favorite match for her, I don't know if they were soulmates and I honestly don't care.. what I saw of them was good enough for me.
 

Antho

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Was never a fan of them just because I think this relationship would be like a Xander/ Cordelia 2.0 and while I like them in btvs i’m Not interested in Doyle-cordelia
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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The thing that bothers me about Doyle is that he treats Cordelia a bit too much like a puzzle box.
I'm not sure i'm understanding what you mean correctly. I think you mean that he treats her like she's some kind of puzzle he has to solve? I'm not sure, though - so please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.
the only evidence I can think of of that is him saying in Rm W/A Vu 'It's like wrestling a tiger just to get to know her' - but I think that's more him recognising the many facets of Cordelia and the fact that she is a bit prickly rather than anything else. (Also - their house warming gift to her in this episode is a cactus - which in the commentary Jane Espenson says was deliberately done because they see Cordy as being prickly. I love the idea of Doyle (and it would have to be Doyle -because daylight) going out and choosing her a gift, and choosing a cactus because it reminds him of her. Again I just see that as complete understanding and acceptance of the person she is, rather than him treating her as mysterious.)
 
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