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Do you think that Xander's hatred of vampires is justified?

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Black Thorn
#1
I've seen Xander get a lot of hate for his hatred of spike and Angel particularly in the earlier seasons.


Do you think his hatred is justified?
 

Taake

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Black Thorn
#2
Yes, it's quite similar to the black-and-white worldview of Riley that we see later. Vampires are technically bad, Buffy is therefor justified in being a Vampire Slayer (though occasionally more of a Vampire Cuddler obviously :p ) because she is ridding the world of evil.

I don't think it's strange that Xander hates vampires. He grows to tolerate Angel and Spike because they're exceptions, but in general, their species is supposed to be evil and basically sadistic serial killers. So I think Xander's response is very human, it can be laid at his (and Riley's) feet that it's a very simplistic attitude, but as long as we are supposed to believe that vampires are evil creatures whose death/staking we root for, then Xander is also justified in rooting for their demise. :)

It is similar to Gunn on Angel, he hates vampires, he tolerates and even likes Angel, but just like Xander he always keeps a certain distance because he hates the species.

If he wasn't justified, then we should operate under the idea that the exception (like Spike and Angel) are the rule and then Buffy becomes a monster who goes around and kills all of these vampires before finding out if they want to be redeemed/can be good or not.
 

Fool for Buffy

I'm just being a big nerd again
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Sineya
#3
He's just too hypocritical. It's a main flaw of his. He's aloud to date an X demon but Buffy is not allowed to date X evil vampires? I don't get that. If it weren't for Anya I'd be able to come to terms with his black and white views. And I'm most bothered by his hatred of Angel because that was completely influenced by his jealousy of Angel getting Buffy and not him. And selfish hate is even worse than hypocritical hate.
 
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#4
His best friend Jesse was mudered by vampires, and a demon took his place, who Xander dusted. Vampires have continually attacked him and his friends, they killed Jenny and Kendra, so yes I would say he's totally justified. Unfortunately he's also very hard line in his views, there are no grey areas for him in the early seasons, and I think the strictness of his beliefs delayed his emotional maturing.
 
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Sineya
#6
I think Xander was justified and in a way I sort of appreciated how committed he was to his beliefs, I'm glad that his views changed over time but I'm also glad that he wasn't easily swayed:)
 

WillowFromBuffy

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#8
It is ambiguous. Xander has reason to hate vampires and to be weary of Angel and Spike, but his beliefs are coloured by his jealousy and love for Buffy.
 

brinkster130

Riley's BFF
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Sineya
#9
Given that what happened with Jesse was his introduction to vampires, I'd say yes, his hatred was understandable and justified.
 
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#14
The show slipped in not mentioning Jesse ever again. There was a good piece of fanfic, IMO, in which Xander tries to write a letter to Jesse's parents about how Jesse died (I think he ends up giving up and not telling them anything).

And let's not forget that trick Angel pulled in School Hard using Xander. I suspect Angel hated Xander to do that, but he wasn't an otherwise obvious about it as Xander was. (While pretending to be evil he did punch Xander--another reason to dislike even the vampires with souls--and tells Faith that Xander really bugs him.)
 
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Sineya
#15
I really wish Jesse's existence and death wasn't totally forgotten about by the show and characters because I believe it would have given a lot more insight into Xander's character and development. I mean, wasn't this guy a good friend of Xander and Willow's? They shouldn't have been able to escape the aftermath of his death at the very least since Jesse would be considered a missing teenager, entailing police investigations, Jesse's family wanting answers, etc. But then again, it is Sunnydale lol.

I just would have really liked for the audience's sake to see a short scene of Willow and Xander mourning him and Xander particularly grappling with the fact his friend was killed and turned by a vampire, sowing the seeds for the hatred he has for vampires. While I always believed that is how Xander's hatred formed (and is completely justified imo) the audience has nothing to go on until Angelus comes about and starts creating mayhem and even then a lot of his hatred to a lot of people seems rooted in jealousy and vindictiveness. I think the audience would have been much more empathetic towards Xander if he ever actually ever brought up Jesse like "Remember my friend? He was turned into a vampire and I ended up killing him".
 
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#16
Does Xander ever bring this up in arguments concerning Spike or Angel?
Nope, I'm pretty sure it was never mentioned again; which is sloppy writing. Still, seeing your best friend turn into a monster and having to killing them wouldn't be an easy thing.
I agree that Jesse should have been mentioned in the show, but Xander does mention him in the comics. I can't remember the details, but when he's dealing with his PTSD I think Xander says it started with seeing his best friend killed by vampires. Jesse should have been mentioned earlier, but at least he did eventually get a name check
 
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#17
I wouldn't call Xander black and white... a guy who dates an ex-demon, befriends a werewolf, invites demons to his wedding, watches cartoons with Clem, is openly against the Initiative and their way of thinking, defends Tara against her family thinking she was a demon. Is that guy black and white?

Also, I've noticed that Xander's maturity is linked with befriending either Spike or Angel or accepting vampires. Why? Xander became a mature character since S5, he's responsible, he doesn't overdrink, he takes his job seriously, he's in a serious relationship with Anya (and I think they moved in together in S5), he fights vampires and helps saving the world. All that and he's not mature?? Is maturity only linked with becoming friends with Spike?
 
Yeah they're roommates and it's hilarious. It seems a little OOC to me .
I don't think it's OOC. Xander's attitude towards Spike began to change since S7. He teams up with Spike in Him, he's never hostile towards Spike after Him, he ignores Anya's invite for a Spike bashing session in Never Leave Me and in the same episode, instead of accusing Spike of killing innocents, he comes up with the reason to prove Spike's innocence: the trigger. He pats Spike on the shoulder in Lies My Parents Told Me.
 
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#18
Considering his personal experience on the matter, I'd say absolutely. His best friend was killed and turned. Then there is Angelus. Then Spike in S3 hitting him over the head and abducting him and Willow. Vampires are evil, it's fine to hate evil IMO. That because of his experience with Jesse and his feelings for Buffy he wasn't able to see the gray area is also understandable. Xander grew out of it, one of the very few characters on this show that did actually mature in later years.
 
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#19
I think his hatred of vampires in general is justified because of Jesse and the fact that vampires will try and kill you for a meal. However, in regards to Angel and Spike I think it's not justified because of the fact they're helping the scoobies. That's not to say that he can't dislike Spike and Angel, but I think his dislike should be based more on who they are and what they've done (For Spike this would be Season 2, Lovers Walk and The Harsh Light of Day. For Angel this would be the Angelus saga) rather than the fact that they're vampires which is something they can't change.
 
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#20
I think his hatred of vampires in general is justified because of Jesse and the fact that vampires will try and kill you for a meal. However, in regards to Angel and Spike I think it's not justified because of the fact they're helping the scoobies. That's not to say that he can't dislike Spike and Angel, but I think his dislike should be based more on who they are and what they've done (For Spike this would be Season 2, Lovers Walk and The Harsh Light of Day. For Angel this would be the Angelus saga) rather than the fact that they're vampires which is something they can't change.
I disagree with the popular belief that Xander dislikes them because they're vampires. He dislikes Angel because he's jealous of him until Angel lost his soul, then his dislike grew deeper to the crimes Angelus did - except his gripes about it would stop by Amends when he confesses to Buffy that he's a lousy friend when it comes to Angel and actually tries to help her save him. As for Spike, the dislike is very mutual, Spike hates Xander as much as Xander hates him, but for some reason it's only Xander who gets hated on for disliking Spike. There are so many reasons to hate Spike: how about trying to kill Buffy more than once? How about betraying the Scoobies in The Yoko Factor and Out of My Mind (I think this is its name? It's the fourth episode in S5) How about kidnapping Buffy and chaining her? How about Buffy feeling disgusted and upset that Spike had feelings for her? All that played into Xander's dislike of Spike.

If Xander hated Angel and Spike because they were vampires, then why didn't he feel the same way about other vampires like Harmony, Drusilla, Vamp Willow? Heck, he was enthused about his vampire version and asks Vamp Willow if he was cool.
 
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