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Does anybody hate Cordelia?

VisionBoy

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Sineya
Exactly. I mean really, as far as she was aware, in fact as far as everyone was aware, Skip was trustworthy and he did technically keep Cordelia from dying and allow her to carry on helping AI with the visions... evil scheme or not, he delivered what he said he would.
Plus, Skip was working for the Powers, technically he wasn't lying on that front either. But he had allegiance to one of the Powers in particular who turned out to be rogue. How on earth was Cordelia to predict all this?

Cordelia is no more to blame for Jasmine than Fred is to blame for resurrecting Illyria. They were both set up by forces greater than themselves and were both violated by evil; resulting in their deaths. They were victims.
 

Lyri

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Now that is something I have always wondered. Because Darla wasn't REALLY Darla when she visited Connor. So, was Cordy REALLY Cordy or was she a Higher Power wearing a Cordy suit?
When did they ever say that Darla wasn't Darla? As far as I can remember, there was never anything stated that the person who visited Connor was anything other than the spirit of his dead mother. Of course, there isn't anything to say that it WAS here, either, but I like the part where it is her a lot more, lol.
 

Spanky

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When did they ever say that Darla wasn't Darla? As far as I can remember, there was never anything stated that the person who visited Connor was anything other than the spirit of his dead mother. Of course, there isn't anything to say that it WAS here, either, but I like the part where it is her a lot more, lol.
I thought when Connor said something like "you aren't my mother grumble grumble magic grumble" she said something like, I don't know if I am, but I have her memories and thoughts and I love you like she loved you. I could be wrong of course... but it's unlikely I am. And even if I am wrong I wont admit it.
 

Lyri

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I thought when Connor said something like "you aren't my mother grumble grumble magic grumble" she said something like, I don't know if I am, but I have her memories and thoughts and I love you like she loved you. I could be wrong of course... but it's unlikely I am. And even if I am wrong I wont admit it.
Yeah, but that was Connor who said that and Cordelia who agreed. One could argue that it was just Connor trying to convince himself that he was doing the right thing bu following Cordelia and Cordelia doing whatever she could to make sure that Connor stayed on her side. Darla saying she doesn't know if she's Darla could just be confusion over the fact that she's been taken out of wherever she ended up after her death in order to help Connor see sense. It doesn't mean that she's not Darla.
 

Spanky

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It doesn't mean that she's not Darla.
Doesn't mean she is either.. that's why I said you could argue that Cordy at the end wasn't Cordy but the same Higher Power that portrayed Darla.
 

Lyri

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I literally said in my first post that it doesn't mean it is Darla. My whole point was that there was never anything specific that said it wasn't Darla (or Cordelia) so we can't really say it or take it as fact.
 
Spanky
Spanky
thats what I was saying.. I think we were saying the same thing.

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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I found Cordy to be pretty much a one note character. Buffy: Smile, make sarcastic remark, talk about fashion, insult Xander. Angel: Smile, make sarcastic remark, talk about fashion, insult Wesley or Gunn.
The only time I really liked her was in Out of Mind, Out of Sight...when she explained to Buffy how she could be surrounded by people yet still be alone. I truly felt for her character then. It was a lovely scene.
 

sosa lola

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I love Cordelia from S1 on BtVS until the end of S2 AtS - then the writers decided to strip her out of all her Cordy uniqueness to be a worthy love interest for Angel. Screw Angel! Cordelia was perfect the way she was.
 
Wildfly
Wildfly
Exactly. They made her a freaking saint with dyed blonde hair 2b like buffy's. Pfft

TTFN

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I liked her character in both series. Her character probably had the most growth. I did not like what they did to her in Angel Season 4. Thankfully Cordy left on a high note in the amazing episode "You're Welcome".
 

Give Us A Kiss

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On AtS, Cordy does a good job improving herself...until she becomes a higher power that is.

On BtVS, Cordy is mostly a snooty nuisance, especially in season 1.
 

Ethan Reigns

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BtVS: Cordelia was interesting in that she actually talked to the lesser caste of people whereas in a real school, people like her wouldn't have ten words to say to me all year. You get a view of the (unpleasant and prejudicial) thought processes that go on in the mind of the classic high school bitca and she is forced by circumstances to join with the scoobies, whether a witch turns her blind or an invisible girl tries to make visible modifications to her face, her head is required to assemble Frankenstein's girlfriend, she almost gets sacrificed to a reptile demon, she is the subject of a love spell that goes off the rails in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, becomes a target in Slayerfest 98, makes the wish that initiates Anya's arrival, hooks up with Xander then dumps him but he pays off her prom dress and she even killed a vampire in "Graduation Day Part 2". Eventually, she runs out of money and we find that she got accepted into excellent universities but never went.

AtS: Cordelia is now living in L.A. and waiting for her big break as an actress but instead gets drawn back into the demon hunting life by a meeting with Angel where she handles all the organizational and commercial interests of Angel Investigations. She no longer has the social superiority that defined her in the early years and seems to be a level-headed foil to Angel's moods. She gets an apartment that she likes early on in the show by eliminating one of the two ghosts "living" there. She appears to be set up to be a love interest for Angel but in I Will Remember You, Angel is still captivated by Buffy, Wesley is now a certified badass but her chemistry with him is overshadowed by their previous lack of chemistry and his moodiness that sometimes challenges Angel's own moods. In Waiting in the Wings, we see a spell creating a false romance between Cordelia and Angel but when the spell lifts, the romance is gone. Cordelia gets her wish of a TV show with her as the star but drops it all when someone needs help and gets visions that allow her to be a source of information for Angel and she accepts demonhood in order to survive the visions. At this point, she is betrayed and is forced to become the mother of the evil Jasmine.

That's quite a resumé for a girl who was originally the vain, shallow leader of the social order at school but proves to be much more intelligent, resourceful and determined than that. But a lot of people remember their encounters with girls like that in high school and I think that is where the hate comes from.
 

GoSpuffy

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I have never liked Cordelia. There are other characters, like Dawn, that annoyed me but grew on me over time but something about Cordelia is so annoying I just can't warm to her. There are characters that did things that I don't like, like Xander judging Buffy, and I can get over it. I tell myself that it is way the character is written and I'm not supposed to like her as she is the mean girl we all hated in high school. If there was one thing I could change about buffy and angel it would be getting read of cordy.
 

TTFN

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Anybody else have a hard time watching her last episode on Angel? I cry every time I watch "You're Welcome". I just can't help it! Between that episode and "A Whole in the World" I turn into a blubbering idiot. Do not judge! :(
 

Carrie Hopewell

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The question posted on the thread initially was: does someone hate or not care about Cordelia? I think I'm the later.

Cordelia has a lot of fun moments being a bitch on Buffy, although I find her mean during S3. She's cruel to Willow in S1, but after her progress in S2 and early S3, her actions feel worse even if they aren't. I always saw her as the fun character everyone more or less enjoyed, but not a particularly interesting one. When I watched Angel S1 I realized how much I missed Cordy on Buffy. Spike was fun in S4, but a poor substitute. Cordelia was a warmer character and suited Sunnydale best.

On Angel, I liked her from the beginning, especially in a group dynamic. She could be clueless, but her relationship with Angel made her more endearing and revealed what was on Angel's mind, so it was a win-win situation. Her one-sided romance with Doyle (on his part) was nice and I liked the sibling type relationship she had with Wes and Angel. On the second season, I think Cordy was the same with her friends, regardless of the vision overload. I never felt like she aged too much in 'To Shanshu in L.A.' because at that point she was already devoted to her job and to her friends. My problem with Cordelia is that she is much more kinder and sensitive with her friends compared with others. But that has always been one of Cordy's traits. She could be insensitive with the clients and was pretty mean to women she thought wanted to sleep with Angel (like in 'Untouched)', even if Angel was the problem and not them.

This is an unpopular opinion but Cordelia was her most champion-y and decent in season 2 (yes, much more than in 'You're Welcome'). Cordelia went to help Gunn on her own in 'First Impressions', put the suicidal guy from her vision first (over Angel) in 'Reunion', decided to keep fighting the bad guys in 'Redefinition', was a good friend to Wes throughout the season (and Gunn and Angel), etc. There are only a handful of occasions when I find Cordy too insensitive or unkind ('Untouched' being one of them). She's still shallow yet doesn't think she's better than everyone else, just because she's 'Cordy'.

In season 3, I didn't like the turn the writers took with her right from the beginning. They decided to make her the mother of the group, which is a role Cordelia never wanted nor worked in, and made Angel progressively stupider so she could save the day. Cordelia's self-absorption and interests (acting, dating) made her an independent character even when she didn't have an independent storyline or was only helping Angel (S1). She always felt like her own person. Unlike Wesley, whose Watcher knowledge always allowed him to have a central role in an episode, both as Angel's friend and as detective, Cordelia just had a vision and then helped the other characters as much as she could. Most of her role on an episode was directly related to the other characters. That was fine in seasons 1 and 2 seeing as she used her shrewdness and street smarts, rather than her compassion for Angel. The problem with S3, to me, is that in attempting to make her a really nice person (which back-fired), the writers made her a character that only catered to other characters (mostly Angel). She seemed, not more mature, but a bit more arrogant, like she knew everything ("I'm Cordelia. I don't think. I know. Okay?"). This atitude might be endearing, but actually reflects the kind of thinking that led her to believe she deserved to be a higher being. In 'Offspring', for example, Angel acts like a college boy who knocked his girlfriend up and she's the wise adult who judges Angel for sleeping with Darla, and mothers the soulless vamp. In the next episode, for some reason, she goes back to hating Darla and Angel becomes the concerned one. After Lullaby, all she did was babysit Connor and then go on vacation with Groo. She was Angel's babysitter, friend and nothing else. Wesley was beginning his dark Wes arc and Angel was going through fatherhood, yet there was nothing going on with Cordy. She was just the moral compass and that didn't suit her: she wasn't old or experienced enough for it and it made her sound judgmental a lot of the time. When she came back from her vacation, she was so much worse. All she did was give Angel pep talks and be clueless about Groo. She was supposed to be a champion worthy of ascending but she became hypocritical and know it all. In S2, she told Angel it was wrong to lock the lawyers in the wine cellar, but tells Angel that she doesn't care about killing Holtz. She also doesn't care about Wesley and just hovers over Angel, offering advice she deems necessary. Then, she has that vision in her room and doesn't question the oddness of it, and blindly ascends without asking if that's how she would help more people.

In 'You're Welcome' I find that she's still season 3 Cordy, so I can't love her or the episode. She mostly just gives Angel pep talks and advice, and judges Angel for taking the deal at W&H - without asking him his motives first, like a friend would. She has that awful "Angel, there are no people like us" line, which sounds condescending, and has that 'I'm Cordelia Chase' moment, which makes her sound arrogant, rather than self-assured. (There's a difference between her sticking her tongue out at Angel and saying "You can't fire me, I'm vision girl" and her snotty attitude towards someone she didn't even know at that point). Oh, and she doesn't care about torturing Eve for some reason. S2 Cordy would just intimidate Eve, but this Cordy just asks Harmony or Angel to torture her.

Overall, Cordy just isn't very interesting. She's not allowed to make mistakes or be unlikable. She is seen as the voice of reason without anyone questioning it (simply because she's the blunt one), doesn't have moral or existential dilemmas, is never in the wrong or has to own up to a mistake (like Angel, Gunn and Wes have, just not Cordy and Fred). I just find that her progress from bitch to selfless champion isn't enough to make her a great character. Even in Buffy S3 she put her ass on the line and was sensitive. The writers don't take any risks with Cordy in order to keep her image perfect. Her ego is, at best, the only flaw people point out (on Angel anyway). In the end, I don't feel much towards the character - she doesn't have enough struggles for me to sympathize with. I like her (sometimes a lot) in S1/S2, but not really in S3, S4 or S5. I don't think she was missed in S4 or S5. In fact, those seasons were morally grey and, since she wasn't allowed to be, she would have dragged everything down.
 

HowiMetdaSlayer

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I never hated Cordelia, just didn't care for her. On Buffy she served a purpose, especially in the beginning, but she was replaceable. I'm not really going to comment much on her story line on Angel. Cordy was the funny, blunt with attitude romance/side kick who was more than capably replaced by Anya.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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Cordy was amusing in Angel S1-S2. She made me laugh and I enjoyed her character. Other than that, I found her grating and predictable. (Oh, look! Cordy made a snide remark! Wow, she dissed somebody's outfit! Stop the presses!)

On Buffy, I wouldn't have missed her if she'd died. And while I don't hate her (like I do Kennedy!), I wasn't impressed with her either.
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
The most hated character on Buffy must be either Kennedy or Rona.

Bluebird

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This is an unpopular opinion but Cordelia was her most champion-y and decent in season 2
Not unpopular with me - I totally agree with this. AtS S2 Cordelia is my favourite Cordelia, she was juuuuust right. :D She'd grown some humility deep down inside her, especially from her vision overload at the end of S1, and had a few knocks in S2, what with being fired, being treated like an object in her acting career, struggling to find her place in the world after Angel kicking them out, and bonding with Wes and Gunn in their new business. She was forced into being less self absorbed. Whereas for me, S3 Cordy is kinder but she is extremely self absorbed. Almost all of her interactions are with Angel only, and Angel is more important to her than anyone else. I missed the friendships she had with the rest of the gang. I just don't like the personality she became.

I think the drastic change in her in the latter half of season 3 was too much too fast. She goes from normal young looking Cordy, to this wise woman who dresses like Willow, and has your auntie's haircut. Why not just introduce another character rather than forced development?
 
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
It was all downhill after the haircut. :(

Carrie Hopewell

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Not unpopular with me - I totally agree with this. AtS S2 Cordelia is my favourite Cordelia, she was juuuuust right. :D She'd grown some humility deep down inside her, especially from her vision overload at the end of S1, and had a few knocks in S2, what with being fired, being treated like an object in her acting career, struggling to find her place in the world after Angel kicking them out, and bonding with Wes and Gunn in their new business. She was forced into being less self absorbed. Whereas for me, S3 Cordy is kinder but she is extremely self absorbed. Almost all of her interactions are with Angel only, and Angel is more important to her than anyone else. I missed the friendships she had with the rest of the gang. I just don't like the personality she became.
Thank you for agreeing with me. Well said! Just to clarify (I think you understood that) by self-absorbed in S1 and S2, I meant that her confidence and vanity made her feel like a force of nature, like her own person. It's a good kind of self absorbed, that's true to her character, but doesn't get in the way of her role as a seer. She's very selfless and brave in S2. In trying to make her more 'selfless' in S3 though, she felt like a character who had no life of her own, except to serve the other characters (Angel pretty much). In S3, she was less vain, yet more arrogant and self absorbed (the bad kind, that's a set back for the character).

What I don't understand regarding her friendships in S3 is how close her and Angel were. Their relationship really took a hit in S2 and was just mending, whereas her friendship with Wes had been growing non-stop since S1. Plus, Angel spent 3 months mourning Buffy in Sri Lanka, and Cordy had that extra time to bond with Wes and Gunn (and work with them as a team), while her friendship with Angel didn't go anywhere. It doesn't make any sense to me that right from the first episode Angel and Cordelia are acting like they've been BFFs for years and like S2 never happened, and Wes is the less important best friend. The way Cordy says "I know you Angel", while implying that Wes doesn't is just illogical. Neither Cordy nor Wes understood Angel in S2, but Wes was actually more capable of getting Angel, which he proved after the gang was fired. Anyway... I mourn the loss of her and Wesley's relationship.

I think the drastic change in her in the latter half of season 3 was too much too fast. She goes from normal young looking Cordy, to this wise woman who dresses like Willow, and has your auntie's haircut. Why not just introduce another character rather than forced development?
I agree, but I'm actually more okay with her being so blatantly out of character in mid-S3. It irks me more her personality change in early S3, because people don't seem to notice it and it's used to dumb Angel down (which only stops once Cordy goes on vacation). Cordelia is way too mature and knowledgeable in early S3, to the point of arrogance sometimes.
That haircut was awful and her clothing in Tomorrow, in particular, was really bad!
 
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