• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

Does S5 become too much The Angel and Spike show?

CHK DeWilSon

A BAngel fan. Always.
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
199
Age
50
Location
London
An interesting question which I wonder depends on how a certain character is viewed because with it having Angel as the title of the show, I'm not sure that his character is the issue for me.

I'll be watching this series/season on E4 when it arrives to actually see if there was too much of the Angel and Spike show as I've heard that Spike wasn't in as many episodes and scenes as the likes of Wesley or Fred/Illyra so then maybe the problem is that Spike's popularity pushes out the importance of the longstanding characters and their arcs.

There was from my point a balance for all the other main characters in having equally the spotlight on them throughout the individual series/season but even with the major issues that Wesley, Fred and Gunn were going through, the main focus for most in that Spike was there and I actually resent his character for this and that is why I wish that it wasn't felt by certain PTB that needed for what turn out to be the final series/season because the character coming on board didn't save the show in the end.

I did not enjoy how Angel acted in regards to him and Spike and their individual relationships with Buffy because it wasn't funny watching Angel regress to some teenage boy competing for the girl. 🙄

And even if there wasn't as much storylines for the love triangle, they did put too much time and storytelling into the love triangle when SMG ended up not appearing in the series and it was just another story of another love triangle which ATS had become the series for since series two!

As a Angel fan, I am/was interested in his ongoing journey as well as his AI team and Connor and for me, Spike coming on board, being elevated to 2nd lead, just felt like the others were being diminished which happened IMO in series 6 & 7 of BTVS.

It just didn't feel organic for him to be around given his true relationship with Angel and was just forced on because of Spike being a well loved and it not actually making real sense for him to be around.

So Spike was push to the forefront and into a bromance with Angel though for me that was never their relationship even when they were together with Darla and Drusilla. Because the comics have definitely shown that this was a fleeting time for them.

Being two soulled vampires means nothing for me as their journeys to it but also what it means for them as individuals is what make me gravitate towards one plus I prefer the relationship and genuine friendships Angel had with Gunn and Wesley in particular given the continuous changes they went through with all happened.

But it is what it is.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Age
31
I wonder if the likes of Spike and Faith just work better as supporting characters not leads.

I think they do work better in a supporting role where you want to see more of them rather than as a lead. There is more freedom in being a supporting character whereas lead characters tend to be more constricted eg A lead will always have romance drama and be part of a love triangle (either in show or in terms of shipping). A supporting character can more or less have a happy healthy relationship.

I wish that it wasn't felt by certain PTB that needed for what turn out to be the final series/season because the character coming on board didn't save the show in the end.

I believe it was said somewhere that Angel only got a season 5 on the proviso that Spike was brought on board. It's possible there may have been a Season 6 if Whedon hadn't tried pushing so hard for an early renewal.
 
B
Btvs fan
Spike and a lighter look for the show and back to more stand alone episodes

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
1,578
Age
39
An interesting question which I wonder depends on how a certain character is viewed because with it having Angel as the title of the show, I'm not sure that his character is the issue for me.

I'll be watching this series/season on E4 when it arrives to actually see if there was too much of the Angel and Spike show as I've heard that Spike wasn't in as many episodes and scenes as the likes of Wesley or Fred/Illyra so then maybe the problem is that Spike's popularity pushes out the importance of the longstanding characters and their arcs.

There was from my point a balance for all the other main characters in having equally the spotlight on them throughout the individual series/season but even with the major issues that Wesley, Fred and Gunn were going through, the main focus for most in that Spike was there and I actually resent his character for this and that is why I wish that it wasn't felt by certain PTB that needed for what turn out to be the final series/season because the character coming on board didn't save the show in the end.

I did not enjoy how Angel acted in regards to him and Spike and their individual relationships with Buffy because it wasn't funny watching Angel regress to some teenage boy competing for the girl. 🙄

And even if there wasn't as much storylines for the love triangle, they did put too much time and storytelling into the love triangle when SMG ended up not appearing in the series and it was just another story of another love triangle which ATS had become the series for since series two!

As a Angel fan, I am/was interested in his ongoing journey as well as his AI team and Connor and for me, Spike coming on board, being elevated to 2nd lead, just felt like the others were being diminished which happened IMO in series 6 & 7 of BTVS.

It just didn't feel organic for him to be around given his true relationship with Angel and was just forced on because of Spike being a well loved and it not actually making real sense for him to be around.

So Spike was push to the forefront and into a bromance with Angel though for me that was never their relationship even when they were together with Darla and Drusilla. Because the comics have definitely shown that this was a fleeting time for them.

Being two soulled vampires means nothing for me as their journeys to it but also what it means for them as individuals is what make me gravitate towards one plus I prefer the relationship and genuine friendships Angel had with Gunn and Wesley in particular given the continuous changes they went through with all happened.

But it is what it is.

He did save the show. Season 4 was originally going to be the last season. Even the cast and crew at the time thought that (see Vincent Karthiser interview) and the WB only agreed very last minute to giving it another year on the Provisio that they would get popular character Spike in, and basically a soft reboot with the show having a lighter look (filtered windows) and back to the original more stand alone stories (which was ditched in the second half of the season)
Season 5 (this according to David Fury) was only cancelled due to Joss pushing for renewal early, that the Execs felt backed into a corner and so cancelled it. The irony there was that only happened due to the late renewal last year and Joss wanted give his Cast and Crew safe notice.

Sarah Michelle Gellar was also meant to show up for E12 the hundredth episode but it fell through. Fury says Joss was angry at this amd you can kind of see it on the DVD overview about him coldly speaking on TGIQ (no she was never coming back for this) "she's moved on and so should we"
She did offer to come back for the Finale but Joss said no as he felt it would detract from the cast and there story . I agree with that. Angel showing up then leaving in Chosen felt awkward on BtVS.
The flip side is that got Cordelia back and gave the character closure rather than just have her stuck in a coma.
 

Jodast

Lapsed BBer
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
975
Location
London UK
Sineya
If I remember correctly, the network'basically demanded that season 5 be The Angel and Spike Show or they would not greenlight the season.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
1,578
Age
39
If I remember correctly, the network'basically demanded that season 5 be The Angel and Spike Show or they would not greenlight the season.

I doubt they said make it the Angel and Spike show just that they wanted Spike, a popular character, on the show. As said earlier Whedon initially only had Spike as a reoccurring role but it was James who wanted regular full time work or nothing.
 
Top Bottom