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" faced with the same choice now, you'd let her die"

YummySushiPJs

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In season 7 Buffy has a chat with Giles in which she says if she had to sacrifice Dawn to save the world, she would do it (in contrast to her stance in The Gift).

What changed Buffy's mind on this issue? And what was the point of this dialogue? It never really went anywhere or served a purpose. Was it supposed to show that Buffy had changed in some way and if so, was this meant to be a positive or negative change because I'm really not sure.

The only other thing I can think of is that it's linked to JoyceTheFirst's warning to Dawn that "Buffy won't choose you. She'll be against you". Apparently this was meant to go somewhere but the writers decided to abandon that arc. Do you think it was maybe connected to that?
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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Black Thorn
Honestly, I never really thought about it...but that's an intriguing speculation.
 
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Fuffy Baith

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Sineya
The only other thing I can think of is that it's linked to JoyceTheFirst's warning to Dawn that "Buffy won't choose you. She'll be against you". Apparently this was meant to go somewhere but the writers decided to abandon that arc. Do you think it was maybe connected to that?
There were a lot of details that were brought up and then went no where. It could be related to that, but I don't think it was conscious on the writer's decision. It also doesn't change Buffy's mind about Spike so I don't know why it was brought up, other than Giles is just trying to distract Buffy. Instead of having a nice call back with Buffy and Giles in the graveyard like the early seasons, we get that.
 

sk

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I think she would have sacrificed Dawn even in season 5 if it had come down to it.
The difference is rather her ability to admit that to herself than her ability to do whatever necessary.

Not exactly sure what that means though. So your question remains.

Guessing it's a way to show a more mature (?) Buffy who has more or less accepted her role.
Even though she always has done what has been needed to be done it hasn't been what she wanted. Not who she wants to be.
By season 7 she perhaps still doesn't want it but she knows who she is and what that can require.

/SK
 

RomanticSoul

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I think she would have sacrificed Dawn even in season 5 if it had come down to it.
The difference is rather her ability to admit that to herself than her ability to do whatever necessary.
I don't know. Even when Dawn was willing and ready to sacrifice herself and there was still no other way out (no epiphany yet), Buffy didn't let her jump. That's one of my major problems with the ending (and the Gift has soooo many problems). By S7 Buffy cares so little about the lives of the people close to her, it's no surprise she would be willing to toss Dawn down a tower. Why she is that way though? Who knows.
 

GraceK

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I don't know. Even when Dawn was willing and ready to sacrifice herself and there was still no other way out (no epiphany yet), Buffy didn't let her jump. That's one of my major problems with the ending (and the Gift has soooo many problems). By S7 Buffy cares so little about the lives of the people close to her, it's no surprise she would be willing to toss Dawn down a tower. Why she is that way though? Who knows.
It should have ended after season 5. Honestly I didn't find the First nearly scary enough to create such a shift in Buffy priorities. All of sudden the end is so dire that she would let Dawn die? I didn't buy it . Glory was more formidable to me than the First. Everyone is so out of character in season 7 it's almost a different show. It doesn't even make sense that they are even friends anymore, since none of them seem to care about each other. That's my unpopular opinion:)
 
Angel6
Angel6
No totally agree, and I hate Season 6

Slayerofslayers

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It should have ended after season 5. Honestly I didn't find the First nearly scary enough to create such a shift in Buffy priorities. All of sudden the end is so dire that she would let Dawn die? I didn't buy it . Glory was more formidable to me than the First. Everyone is so out of character in season 7 it's almost a different show. It doesn't even make sense that they are even friends anymore, since none of them seem to care about each other. That's my unpopular opinion:)
I would have been totally fine with it ending after season five. It was a really good season and Glory was the hardest threat they had faced. Watching it honestly feels like the series finale with Buffy dying and everyone preparing for the worst before they face Glory.
 

GraceK

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I would have been totally fine with it ending after season five. It was a really good season and Glory was the hardest threat they had faced. Watching it honestly feels like the series finale with Buffy dying and everyone preparing for the worst before they face Glory.
Agreed. She died heroically with a great message. And everyone was still lovable and had achieved some growth. The show would Have ended on a high note, instead of dragging it out for 2 more seasons and destroying all the characters we love .
 

RomanticSoul

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It should have ended after season 5.
Well Buffy canon ends for me at S4. Anything after that is the Dawnverse. I accept that some people like the new verse, I hate it with a passion. And not just because post-S4 Buffy tried to destroy the world a lot instead of saving it a lot like in S1-4.

Everyone is so out of character in season 7 it's almost a different show. It doesn't even make sense that they are even friends anymore, since none of them seem to care about each other. That's my unpopular opinion:)
These people could barely stand each other by the time we get to S7. Which is why I roll my eyes at Whedon's 'aww shucks' moment in Chosen that is a callback to the Pilot. I mean seriously, you just spend 2 Seasons showing us how much these people have drifted apart and then everything is well at the end? No Joss, it's really not.
 
GraceK
GraceK
Pretty much all of the above :)

thetopher

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The only other thing I can think of is that it's linked to JoyceTheFirst's warning to Dawn that "Buffy won't choose you. She'll be against you". Apparently this was meant to go somewhere but the writers decided to abandon that arc. Do you think it was maybe connected to that?
Or maybe Buffy is kinda saying 'hey, if somebody I care about dies and the world still continues on, it wouldn't break me. I could live with it, I'm stronger now.'

And then when Spike dies Buffy is there, a survivor, smiling and already moving on.

Dunno, maybe.
 

Zenseem

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Black Thorn
Or maybe Buffy is kinda saying 'hey, if somebody I care about dies and the world still continues on, it wouldn't break me. I could live with it, I'm stronger now.'

And then when Spike dies Buffy is there, a survivor, smiling and already moving on.

Dunno, maybe.
It still seems like bad writing tho. Season 7 feels absolutely without true closure and this one kinda felt more like a cliffhanger than Buffy moving on.

Or maybe not. I don't know. I still get a little confused when it comes to season 7.
 

Spanky

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Or maybe Buffy is kinda saying 'hey, if somebody I care about dies and the world still continues on, it wouldn't break me. I could live with it, I'm stronger now.'

And then when Spike dies Buffy is there, a survivor, smiling and already moving on.

Dunno, maybe.
Eh. I still think it goes back to Giles' speech in The Gift. Buffy stopped being a hero.
 

Mylie

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Or maybe Buffy is kinda saying 'hey, if somebody I care about dies and the world still continues on, it wouldn't break me. I could live with it, I'm stronger now.'

And then when Spike dies Buffy is there, a survivor, smiling and already moving on.

Dunno, maybe.
I actually love this. It certainly would be a nice evolution from her «I don't know how to live in this world anymore...» speech. Not saying there's anything wrong with that speech, I love it and relate to it a lot but I do find the realization that you would be able to live with loss beautiful.
 

thetopher

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It still seems like bad writing tho. Season 7 feels absolutely without true closure and this one kinda felt more like a cliffhanger than Buffy moving on.
Oh it absolutely IS bad writing. Kinda 'trying to be grown-up but actually lazy' writing. Like, 'see how cynical Buffy is now' or some crap.
It isn't foreshadowed or sign-posted or really resolved. We don't know what caused it. It's just thrown out there and its meant to show that Buffy has 'changed'.

The show forgot that 'show don't tell' is the hallmark of good writing, but S7 had a lot of dialogue about characters just coming out and saying random things that were supposedly significant and told you how they were feeling at that very moment. Remember all the speeches that people kept giving. Urgh.
 

Mylie

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Oh it absolutely IS bad writing. Kinda 'trying to be grown-up but actually lazy' writing. Like, 'see how cynical Buffy is now' or some crap.
It isn't foreshadowed or sign-posted or really resolved. We don't know what caused it. It's just thrown out there and its meant to show that Buffy has 'changed'.

The show forgot that 'show don't tell' is the hallmark of good writing, but S7 had a lot of dialogue about characters just coming out and saying random things that were supposedly significant and told you how they were feeling at that very moment. Remember all the speeches that people kept giving. Urgh.
With the amount of lame speeches in season 7 we should all be grateful that Buffy's final moment on the show is just her smiling lol

I'm kidding but I'll take little simple moments like those over a big speech every 2 episodes.
 
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