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Faith was better than Buffy

BuffyBot22

Scooby
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I agree with most of this and I don't hate Buffy the character, but it does make me like her character less because we spend 7 seasons watching her with people who love her, obviously she goes through a lot of pain but I wanted her to recognise that she had people who could help make the pain go away if she let them.
On the Faith blaming Buffy thing, I did cringe when she did that, it was absolutely the worst thing that she could have done but I think she did it because she felt like nobody was going to have her back and that she was going to be sent to prison. In short I think it was out of fear.
I think she does realize she has people in her life. The only times we see her not appreciating them is s7, the season of "wtf is going on?", as I like to call it lol.

You can say she didn't appreciate them in s6, but I think that's a major stretch. Her friends resurrected her, left her to crawl her way out of her coffin, and then were so consumed with their own problems it's like they could almost care less that she was back. I know they didn't know that they pulled her out of heaven, but none of them ever really tried to see how she was feeling once back on earth regardless of what dimension they pulled her out of.
Otherwise, I'd day Buffy was pretty appreciative of her friends and family.

Yeah, I can definitely see that fear was Faith's motive. I just don't know how she thought this was going to go in her favor because of course Giles is going to trust Buffy over Faith. She definitely went with her gut reaction and did not think this through logically even a little bit!
 

Guy

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Black Thorn
Buffy is always my number 1... But Faith is one hell of a number 2 :)

Both as a person and as a character. They're both beautifully flawed and beautifully heroic at the same time, which is why they're such great characters.

And yeah, 'This Year's Girl' is when I fell in love with Faith too. Makes sense - it's the first time we really saw things from Faith's perspective for any lengthy period of time. Before that, she was mostly a supporting character for Buffy.
 

Monkey Pants

Bored Now
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Black Thorn
As everyone knows Faith is my favorite character and I love her very much, but she was not better than Buffy. They're BOTH amazing. Faith is a very fascinating person. She grew up abused, and a series of unfortunate circumstances led her downhill. She managed to claw her way out and become an amazing person. She's just great.

Buffy is also amazing. She saves the world over and over. She saves individual people as well. She's extremely forgiving. When Faith starts doing evil things, Buffy tries over and over to help her. Faith refuses. We understand why she does what she does, but it still is detrimental to her. And Buffy WAS becoming pretty close friends with her, wasn't ignoring her or hurting her. The people that really let Faith down are Giles and Wesley. The idea that Buffy was happy when Faith stabbed that guy is ridiculous. She was devastated and has always been sad and hurt by what happened to Faith and what she started doing.

They've both been through things they should have never have had to. They've both gotten through it. The tragedy of their lives and their relationship is not because of themselves or their personalities, but because of circumstances and other people beyond their control that force them apart.
 
L
Living Dead Boy
Great post.

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Sineya
Here's the thing: Buffy IS amazing, Buffy is number one. But everyone on the show KNOWS that Buffy is amazing and give her lots of love and pep and hugs and stuff. She has so much support. This doesn't take away from who she is or what she does; its just fact.

Faith gets none of that support. Of course she doesn't deserve a high-five for a lot of the time on the show ('body-swapping for the win, yo!') but even when she is on the right side- before and after she goes evil- you get the distinct impression nobody else really cares that much. She's around, she helps but lets no invest to much.

So we end up caring extra- the Faith-fan(atics)- and lavish praise upon her badassness. So perception becomes fact; we root for her MORE and end up liking her more not in spite of her screwed up journey, but because of it.
 
K
katmobile
Willow does, Angel does, eventually even Wesley does. Also dissing other chracters is NOT the way to get more justice for Faith it will just alienate people who like those characters.

Slayerofslayers

We're going to destroy the world. Want to come?
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Here's the thing: Buffy IS amazing, Buffy is number one. But everyone on the show KNOWS that Buffy is amazing and give her lots of love and pep and hugs and stuff. She has so much support. This doesn't take away from who she is or what she does; its just fact.

Faith gets none of that support. Of course she doesn't deserve a high-five for a lot of the time on the show ('body-swapping for the win, yo!') but even when she is on the right side- before and after she goes evil- you get the distinct impression nobody else really cares that much. She's around, she helps but lets no invest to much.

So we end up caring extra- the Faith-fan(atics)- and lavish praise upon her badassness. So perception becomes fact; we root for her MORE and end up liking her more not in spite of her screwed up journey, but because of it.
Exactly. I love Buffy and she is a great character. But Faith is so much more intriguing to me because of her background and her character development. Because she is treated like an outsider it makes you root for her as an underdog. She stands out more because she has her own way of doing things and perceiving situations and others. Right of the bat I felt bad for her because she had no family or anything and had to stay in that motel while she was in Sunnydale. Not only is her descent into evil interesting, we find that she doesn't like the fact that she has become evil and wants to change but doesn't know how or doesn't think she has a choice since she had already done so much bad things. But Faith ends up finding a kindred spirit in Angel and he helps her change. She retains all the things that make her a great character while becoming a force for good. It's just a fascinating journey and you really feel for her at every point of her journey, even when she was doing evil things.
 
@thetopher haha thanks right back at you :D Faith is in my top three favorite characters. I was so scared at the end of season three that they were going to kill her off or kill her off after that so every time she came back on Buffy and Angel I would get so excited and be like "Faith is back yes!" I was not prepared for the rest of her great arc since I thought she was going to get killed off at the end of season three so I'm really glad they kept her around. She should have had more screen time though I would have liked to see more of her.
 
thetopher
thetopher
karma fist-bump.

AnthonyCordova

Earth Invasion Taskforce Unlimited
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Sineya
Interesting comments from everyone. Me personally I psychologize Faith a little harshly, I know, but I can't help it. There are qualities to her that would make it impossible for me to ever be an acquaintance. That's not to say I don't appreciate her; some of the very best episodes from either series involve her. She is a near limitless mine for story ideas but in no way would I say Faith "is better" than Buffy, whatever that means (I take it to mean in the capacity of a slayer).
 

Slayrunt

Oh ho! Aren’t you Mr. Dicey Semantics?
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i would have loved to see more of faith and her past as well. what led her to be who she is etc.
 
K
katmobile
I highly recommend the Angel and Faith comic series, the No Future for You arc in season eight and season twelve of the comics especially the last issue, she's also in the back half of Buffy season eleven
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The scoobies instantly took a liking to Faith and Buffy, after overcoming some territorial issues, became friends with her too, more so than the other scoobies (Bad Girls?). Faith accidentally staked a man, which she treated like nothing on the surface, but Buffy knew she was struggling with it deep down so tried to help her only to have her go behind her back and rat her out to Giles. Even in s4 before Faith hijacked her body, Buffy was hoping Faith was better and could redeem herself, so I don't understand why people are making it out as if Buffy was such an asshole to her, because the worst thing between them early on was some jealousy on Buffy's part, which she got over very quickly.

Not to mention - Faith almost raped Xander, arguably raped Riley, planned a high school massacre, sided with the evil mayor because he seemed paternal, betrayed Buffy and the scoobies (who were nothing but welcoming to her), held Buffy's mom hostage and hijacked Buffy's body. Also, she killed the professor in cold blood and then proceeded to victimise herself in season 4, thinking Buffy was ruining her happiness.

The justification? "She had a hard life unlike the privileged brat Buffy, so it's understandable and Buffy was just mean"

People that defend Faith and bash Buffy for acting the way she did and blaming her for what happened to Faith just serve to undermine Faith's redemption arc, where she admits her wrongdoings, takes full responsibility and acknowledges guilt for betraying Buffy - who she even says was the one person who tried to be her friend.
 

Ragnar

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One of my favorite things about the series that I missed originally is the running joke about Faith being an idiot. I love that they don't depict her as being some great intellect beneath a rough exterior. She actually is an idiot.

Another thing that bothered me is her use of the phrase "hoot and a half". It sounds like something Joyce's book club friend would say and I could never take Faith seriously as a bad ass after that. OK, I exaggerate, but just barely.
 

Athene

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Sineya
One of my favorite things about the series that I missed originally is the running joke about Faith being an idiot. I love that they don't depict her as being some great intellect beneath a rough exterior. She actually is an idiot.

Another thing that bothered me is her use of the phrase "hoot and a half". It sounds like something Joyce's book club friend would say and I could never take Faith seriously as a bad ass after that. OK, I exaggerate, but just barely.
I don't think Faith's an idiot. She's certainly naive and impressionable in the beginning but I think that's mostly by choice.
With the 'hoot and a half' phrase I think she was trying to be cute and fit in with Willow and Xander who must have looked as soft as teddy bears to her.
 
K
katmobile
I think part of it is the fact she's impulsive and uneducated make her look dumb sometimes. In some ways she's a child in season three a wild, fierce, damaged, over sexualised one but still vulnerable and until Revelations trusting.

DeadlyDuo

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I think Buffy is better than Faith in season 3 and 4, although Faith does admit her faults and tries to redeem herself whereas Buffy doesn't really admit when she's in the wrong. However I dislike Faith's role with the potentials and her role in the mutiny to kick Buffy out of her own house.
 
FaithLehane16
FaithLehane16
Faith was actually the one who didn't kick Buffy out. She came outside to said that she didn't want that for her, but Buffy told her to lead.
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I think Buffy is better than Faith in season 3 and 4, although Faith does admit her faults and tries to redeem herself whereas Buffy doesn't really admit when she's in the wrong. However I dislike Faith's role with the potentials and her role in the mutiny to kick Buffy out of her own house.
To me, Faith seemed the least willing to kick Buffy out, compared to her best friends and her own sister
 

katmobile

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The only mention of her family that I can remember off the top of my head is when she's speaking to the Mayor about her mom, and she's says "enjoying the drinking and passing out parts of life". So I think her mom was an alcoholic but I don't remember much else.
We find out in the comics that her dad was an alcoholic too. I could say more but I don't want to spoiler the comics. Besides Faith meets a more well healed and entitled version of herself in the comics and she's not a happy girl either.
 
B
Btvs fan
In Faith Hope and Trick she says her dead mum punches harder than that. In Enemies she says her mum was to busy drinking and passing out stages of life

Btvs fan

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I hated Buffys bullying of Faith in S7. She was just punching her all the time. I dunno what went through the writers minds thinking that was ok behaviour.
Also her calling Faith a murderer in the presence of 5 other murderers, none of which unlike Faith did Jail time is also a bit much
 
K
katmobile
She didn't, she lost her rag and punched her when Faith bought up Buffy getting girls killed. The two women have issues & both were in the wrong. The murderers comment is rich but Buffy later offered Faith understanding, reassssurance & her own bed.

GraceK

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I hated Buffys bullying of Faith in S7. She was just punching her all the time. I dunno what went through the writers minds thinking that was ok behaviour.
Also her calling Faith a murderer in the presence of 5 other murderers, none of which unlike Faith did Jail time is also a bit much
Bullying? Really? Do you also include Spike in this list of murderers? 🙄 Buffy wasn’t punching Faith all the time. I think she punched her twice. If you don’t remember , Faith pinned the murder of deputy finch on Buffy, attempted to steal Angels soul, almost killed Willow, poisoned Angel, teamed up with The Mayor and tried to kill everyone and destroy Sunnydale, punched Joyce , tied her up and almost killed her, sexually assaulted and tried to murder Xander, stole Buffy’s body, raped Riley, tried again to murder Angel...there’s a lot of bad history there. Not to mention that Buffy tried numerous times to still help her. It’s amazing. Buffy treats Faith exactly how she should treat Spike post Seeing Red, but actually a lot nicer, and yet somehow you still find her a bully. Huh. It seems Buffy should be the patron saint of forgiveness of people who sexually assault and abuse her instead of the vampire slayer.

ETA: Faith has probably done more personal damage to Buffy than anyone else beside Angel. I think she has been pretty forgiving and gracious all things considered.
 
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K
katmobile
Of course I do and I said that was off as in it was a bit rich of Buffy to say that maybe you don't know the expression it means hypocritical.

Btvs fan

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Bullying? Really? Do you also include Spike in this list of murderers? 🙄 Buffy wasn’t punching Faith all the time. I think she punched her twice. If you don’t remember , Faith pinned the murder of deputy finch on Buffy, attempted to steal Angels soul, almost killed Willow, poisoned Angel, teamed up with The Mayor and tried to kill everyone and destroy Sunnydale, punched Joyce , tied her up and almost killed her, sexually assaulted and tried to murder Xander, stole Buffy’s body, raped Riley, tried again to murder Angel...there’s a lot of bad history there. Not to mention that Buffy tried numerous times to still help her. It’s amazing. Buffy treats Faith exactly how she should treat Spike post Seeing Red, but actually a lot nicer, and yet somehow you still find her a bully. Huh. It seems Buffy should be the patron saint of forgiveness of people who sexually assault and abuse her instead of the vampire slayer.

ETA: Faith has probably done more personal damage to Buffy than anyone else beside Angel. I think she has been pretty forgiving and gracious all things considered.
Actually I did include Spike.
I do remember and like I said Faith is the only one who turned herself in and did Jail time. Willow went to chill in Bath for a bit. Giles got nothing and Anya got nothing twice and Andrew did the dishes.
The idea that out all of them she should hold Faith to a higher standard is absurd.
For what it's worth Faith did act the grown up and the higher standard.
 
Taake
Taake
”And Andrew did the dishes” lol, best comment of the day
K
katmobile
In a sense Spike did do jail time he tagged himself.

katmobile

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Though neither the biggest pleasure nor disappointments of season 7, one of the biggest pleasures I got was seeing Faith kick Spike's butt (and I'm not generally down with the butt-kicking to handle disagreements). One of the biggest disappointments was not seeing Faith kick Buffy right after Buffy pulled a Caleb on her (Caleb doesn't like Buffy's defiance and punishes her with his fists, a little later in the same episode Buffy doesn't like Faith disagreeing with her--quite civilly, more so than Buffy was with Caleb--and punishes her with her fists, and I was so rooting for Faith right then to give Buffy some of her own medicine). This only happened because of how Buffy, Spike (and Spuffy) were portrayed, I never wanted to see Buffy get her butt kicked before season 7.

I can't help but notice that Buffy is a lot more like Faith, like her saying she is the law (and in other ways as well), and on the second (and probably last) viewing of season 7 as Faith asks if Buffy is the bad Slayer now and Faith the good, I answer, "Yes!"

But then those are only a few reasons why I don't like to count season 7 as canon in my own head. (Season 7 was also why I didn't get Angel for years because I felt the show lost its magic, and so Angel probably had as well, and not being able to follow the couple of random eps of Angel I caught didn't help.)
I don't agree because I love BOTH chracters but Faith handing Connor his arse is in the top 10 of Passion of the Nerd's 'episodes that assure us everything will be ok'
 
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