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Question First Evil in Amends

Evil Seal

Alright, 10 more minutes of chanting.
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#1
In Amends, we see the First Evil as Jenny (and as other victims of Angelus as well) touching Angel, caressing him at times. But in season 7, they insisted on the fact that the First Evil was not corporeal and couldn't touch or grab things. As this been explained? Or is it just a mistake in continuity?
 
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#5
As for me, I choose to see the First as unable to touch in Amends, it's just more of a goof like when a vampire's reflection is shown in a window. If the First could touch then it wouldn't really need Angelus or anyone else.

If I wanted to add some headcanon then it could be the First is given limited substance (able to lightly touch and be touched) if enough power is poured into it. While it should've had more of this in season 7, it could be that Caleb used it all up in reliving his kills since he liked the First to pretend to be previous victims of his, and it must've been frustrating as hell if there was no resistance as his dagger or whatever hit home, meaning the First spent what little corporeality it had upon his sick games (and maybe in getting that girl to kill herself it took the form of say a dead mother, or other loved one, promising they'd be together and the girl could feel her mother or whoever stroke her hair). Once Caleb was no longer in the picture then there weren't enough Bringers to give it any significant substance either, and it was focused on breaking the barriers between worlds so that it no longer required Bringers.
 

white avenger

white avenger
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#6
If we're just trying to make up some sort of logical reason for the discrepancy between Season 3 and Season 7 First Evil, the one that first pops into my head is that it had to transfer so much of its power into Caleb to ensure that he was more powerful than Buffy that it literally became incorporeal.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Nice one!

thetopher

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#7
In S3 The First had some Bringers do a chant-y spell thing so it could interact with Angel in a limited way- gentle touches and the like. But Buffy disrupted the spell pretty easily and beat up the Bringers, who were performing /chanting non-stop in order to make the First 'soild-y'.
What's more Buffy knew how to find them if they tried the same stunt again (dead vegetation/trees and stuff), assuming that spells like that require proximity then The First didn't think that this particular spell would work a second time.

Plus there's its empowering of Caleb, perhaps that drains it as well, and all its Bringer priests are busy on a world-wide massacre of Watcher's and potentials.

The First had other ways to physically interact with the world. The best of them was Spike, who stalked and killed/turned over a dozen victims before being found out (and even then the trigger was still in place so Spike was still a viable way of affecting things). The First also had Andrew and the Turok-Han champion guy. And of course Caleb.
The fact that all these ways of interacting physically with the world were eventually stripped from it informs more about the failures of the First and its...I guess I'll be generous and say arrogance (rather than stupidity) because it had many opportunities to handily win against Buffy and the forces of good, and yet chose not to.
 
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#8
In S3 The First had some Bringers do a chant-y spell thing so it could interact with Angel in a limited way- gentle touches and the like. But Buffy disrupted the spell pretty easily and beat up the Bringers, who were performing /chanting non-stop in order to make the First 'soild-y'.
What's more Buffy knew how to find them if they tried the same stunt again (dead vegetation/trees and stuff), assuming that spells like that require proximity then The First didn't think that this particular spell would work a second time.

Plus there's its empowering of Caleb, perhaps that drains it as well, and all its Bringer priests are busy on a world-wide massacre of Watcher's and potentials.

The First had other ways to physically interact with the world. The best of them was Spike, who stalked and killed/turned over a dozen victims before being found out (and even then the trigger was still in place so Spike was still a viable way of affecting things). The First also had Andrew and the Turok-Han champion guy. And of course Caleb.
The fact that all these ways of interacting physically with the world were eventually stripped from it informs more about the failures of the First and its...I guess I'll be generous and say arrogance (rather than stupidity) because it had many opportunities to handily win against Buffy and the forces of good, and yet chose not to.
That makes sense to my mind, in that for the First to be even a little solid (quasi-solid), it would require draining the life of this world to give to It, hence dead trees (and dead animals if they're around). And that empowering Caleb would strip it of energy it would require makes good sense.

And it appears the First can access the memories of the forms it takes, so yeah, it had to know better ways to get at Buffy, and in all fairness, I don't think they'd have stood a chance at the First truly been diabolical as it should've been. It wouldn't have even need the Bringers or Caleb at all, not once season 7 starts anyway.

Though I like to think the First actually did fear Wolfram & Hart (and who knows who else), and may have "panicked" because of the Jasmine thing going on in Los Angeles not so far away making it reckless, and perhaps even confusing it (as Jasmine's energy was interfering with its ability to "think clearly").
 

thetopher

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#9
Though I like to think the First actually did fear Wolfram & Hart (and who knows who else), and may have "panicked" because of the Jasmine thing going on in Los Angeles not so far away making it reckless, and perhaps even confusing it (as Jasmine's energy was interfering with its ability to "think clearly").
I'm sure that's what The First tells its followers after it recovered from the 'big smoosh'; 'Look guys I got confused, I had this plan- killer evil scheme really, and then I got all muddled...'
Still, as head-canon goes its pretty good. :)
 
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#10
Well, it could be because Angel is a vampire. Remember, Vampires are animated by necromancy that originates with the Old Ones. The First Evil, is the Oldest One, nothing else, except for "First Mover," presumably, predates it. The First may have even had hand in devising those magiks. It certainly had power over the dead. It certainly has power over the Turok Han. It targeted both Spike and Angel with a certain efficiency. For all we know, Vampires have a tether to their home realm that the First has access to on the other side of the Hellmouth. It simply doesn't have as much power over the living.
 
Evil Seal
Evil Seal
That's a cool theory
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