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Getting the Covid-19 Vaccine? Yes or No

What are your feelings about the vaccination?

  • Yes!!! I can't wait!

    Votes: 8 16.7%
  • I guess I'll get it, but I'm wary

    Votes: 6 12.5%
  • I'm waiting a bit

    Votes: 4 8.3%
  • I've suddenly become an anti-vaccer

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • I've always been an anti-vaccer

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Already got it, best decision ever!

    Votes: 25 52.1%
  • Work/government made me get it

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Total voters
    48

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,478
Age
30
We've got bills on the go for criminalising protests and journalists. Bills for police and armed forces immunity. Rampant corruption. Looking at this from the holocaust museum is incredibly concerning. I envy your ability to block it out.

That sounds a lot like America right now, not the UK. I could go into the specifics and link the majority of those points with an example but we're not supposed to get political but several of those points can be linked to events from the last 14 months. That's all I'll say.

Here's a question for you. If the UK is as "fascist" as you say, then why are immigrants so desperate to come here, even illegally? Why do the Polish come here in droves if the UK is "on the road to fascism" given that the Polish were the ones invaded by the nazis, rounded up and sent to concentration camps during the holocaust by what was an actual fascist regime?
 
T
thrasherpix
Last 14 YEARS would be MUCH more accurate than 14 months.

The Bronze

Rogue Demon Hunter
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
3,465
Age
35
Location
Essex
Black Thorn
Here's a question for you. If the UK is as "fascist" as you say, then why are immigrants so desperate to come here, even illegally? Why do the Polish come here in droves if the UK is "on the road to fascism" given that the Polish were the ones invaded by the nazis, rounded up and sent to concentration camps during the holocaust by what was an actual fascist regime?
You live here and are unconcerned/unaware of the direction of travel. Why would anyone outside the country be up to date with every draconian measure being discussed in Parliament? Concentration camps weren't introduced on day 1.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,478
Age
30
You live here and are unconcerned/unaware of the direction of travel. Why would anyone outside the country be up to date with every draconian measure being discussed in Parliament? Concentration camps weren't introduced on day 1.
If you are planning to go to a country and make a new life for yourself, you research that country first. That fact still remains that the UK is seen as a highly desirable place to live by those outside the UK. Nobody is rushing to go live in China or North Korea or other actual fascist dictatorships.

What is your actual evidence that the UK is heading towards, in your opinion, fascism?
 

The Bronze

Rogue Demon Hunter
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
3,465
Age
35
Location
Essex
Black Thorn
What is your actual evidence that the UK is heading towards, in your opinion, fascism?
Everything Priti Patel is involved in. Policing bill, borders bill & official secrets act reforms.

Impunity for those in government to lie, break the law and be openly corrupt.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,478
Age
30
Everything Priti Patel is involved in. Policing bill, borders bill & official secrets act reforms.

Impunity for those in government to lie, break the law and be openly corrupt.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think our government has shown some backbone against the woke mob and that's why some people are crying foul.
 
The Bronze
The Bronze
1, 3 & 12 from the poster.

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
3,508
Location
Manchester
What is the actual number of deaths amongst vaccinated people rather than percentage in comparison to unvaccinated people.
I've no idea. The % are from PHE on Monday. Deaths are increasing but I don't think they're as high as they were. Our hospital admissions today are as high as they were in February. NW ambulances have put an alert out. People are getting ill but fewer are dying and I think hospital stays are shorter. More young people are being admitted. Don't forget we have a different dominant strain now.
You've got concentration camps and forced sterilisations going on there.
That's not always indicative (or the only indicator) of fascism. We had concentration camps in the Boer War. "The British Army created the concentration camps as part of a campaign against Boer guerrillas fighting against the takeover of their independent republic. Civilians were herded into the camps from their farms, but the insanitary conditions cost many their lives as hunger and disease ran rampant. Between June 1901 and May 1902, of the 115,000 people in the camps, almost 28,000 died, about 22,000 of them children. The death toll represented about 10 per cent of the Boer population. About 20,000 black people also died in other camps." There are letters that discuss it.


From the 1930s through the 1980s, Japan, Canada, Sweden, Australia, Norway, Finland, Estonia, Slovakia, Switzerland, and Iceland all enacted laws providing for the coerced or forced sterilization of mentally disabled persons, racial minorities, alcoholics, and people with specific illnesses. A modern fascist state is more to do with control. What's fascist are some of the laws they're trying to get through parliament. The protest Bill; 10 years for false accusations of bullying (from Patel? - wasn't she accused of bullying) and the laws pertaining to Press Freedom (no articles that embarrass the Government? Please.).
Why do the Polish come here in droves if the UK is "on the road to fascism".
In short, they don't. A lot came to work in the pits after the war (some had been stationed here) but the Polish diaspora was 2004 when they came to work and study (there was actually a brain drain - 500 Polish Drs registered in the UK in 2004. My uni had an exchange programme with Warsaw and agencies were set up by Brits to encourage migration) but they started to go back after Brexit (numbers peaked in 2017)...many said because of harassment but also because wages here dropped and went up 21% in Poland.. There are fewer now than there were in 2014. Those that stayed have settled - married Brits, kids in school, started businesses etc.

To bring this back on topic - it was a Polish nurse who did my jab!
 

Spanky

Scooby
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
23,912
Black Thorn
That's [concentration camps] not always indicative (or the only indicator) of fascism.
Yeah, we had them here in the US too and we were far from fascists at the time. Though we called them internment camps. Canada had them too, as did Mexico.
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
3,508
Location
Manchester
Yeah, we had them here in the US too and we were far from fascists at the time. Though we called them internment camps. Canada had them too, as did Mexico.
Didn't the US also have Eugenics/enforced sterilization programmes? I'd forgotten we had a UK Eugenics movement (which was on the left and the right) but I don't know if anything came of it...other than a lot of talk by people like G Bernard-Shaw. -

@Spanky - damn - if I'd have known I'd have sent my youngest for a holiday.
 
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Spanky
Spanky
but it was only for criminals and mentally unstable so it was okay

Antho

Scooby
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
2,349
Age
27
Location
Montauban (France)
Again, no one is being forced to do anything. The unvaccinated are simply not being allowed the privileges of the vaccinated. By analogy, I am not being "forced" to get a driver's license because it is a requirement to drive; I could choose not to drive.
In France, From July 21, the health pass ( means a certificate of vaccination or a pcr negative test dated of less 48hours) is necessary to access places that can accommodate more than 50 people :

-Celebrations/Party
-Amusement/Attractions parks
-The marriages
-Audition, conference, screening, meeting or multipurpose rooms
-Marquees, tents and structures
-Games rooms and dance halls
-Commercial establishments intended for exhibitions, trade fairs or exhibitions of a temporary nature
-Outdoor establishments, falling under the PA type
-Sports establishments covered
-The establishments of worship, falling under type V, for the events occurring in V of article 47
-Museums and rooms intended to host cultural exhibitions of a temporary nature, except for persons accessing these establishments for professional reasons
-Libraries and documentation centers, with the exception, on the one hand, of university libraries and specialized libraries and, except for the exhibitions or cultural events they host, of the National Library of France and the Public Library of information and, on the other hand, people accessing these establishments for professional reasons
-Cultural, sporting, fun or festive events organized in public space or in a place open to the public and likely to give rise to control of the access of people
-Ships and boats
-Fairgrounds with more than 30 stalls or attractions.


At the beginning of August, its use will be extended to these places :

Restaurants
bars
coffees
the trains
planes
retirement homes
hospitals
medico-social establishments
indoor and outdoor gyms
indoor and outdoor pools
shopping centers of more than 20,000 m²

Also employees cannot refuse to not get the vaccin if their boss want them to get it. If they refuse, in short term they will not receive their salary, in long term they can be fired ! Also a boss is in right to not offer a job to someone that isn’t vaccined. Discrimination ? Of course not 😒🙄. The price of the test pcr ( to prove we are negative) is very expensive and the fact we need to present one dated than less 48h is calculated. The government perfectly know that people aren’t going to pay a test every 48h each time they need to go somewhere. And there are other things I can’t think right now.

Please I respect your opinion but don’t tell me no one is forced to get the vaccin, that’s false !! Also you can’t compare that situation to someone that hasn’t a driver license. Please compare what is comparable. I don’t have a car, without a car if I need or want to go somewhere I can walk, take bus, or ask someone to drive me there… without vaccine I can go nowhere because I’m welcome nowhere !
 

Stake fodder

Soulless
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
499
Location
Caught on a root
Didn't the US also have Eugenics/enforced sterilization programmes?
Yes, the Nazis were inspired by American eugenics advocates and practices. Josef Mengele trained in a program funded by the Rockefellers. This is something we've never adequately reckoned with, in my opinion.

Please I respect your opinion but don’t tell me no one is forced to get the vaccin, that’s false !! Also you can’t compare that situation to someone that hasn’t a driver license. Please compare what is comparable. I don’t have a car, without a car if I need or want to go somewhere I can walk, take bus, or ask someone to drive me there… without vaccine I can go nowhere because I’m welcome nowhere !
I concede that my analogy was not a very good one, just one that came off the top of my head. We will just have to agree to disagree about whether restrictions are justifiable. But I hope you will be able to find a solution for yourself that you can feel content with. :)
 

Antho

Scooby
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
2,349
Age
27
Location
Montauban (France)
But I hope you will be able to find a solution for yourself that you can feel content with. :)
I just want to be free. Is it too much to ask ?
Yeah I think we won’t agree but it was still nice to debate with you. And I apologize if you had the impression that my tone was rude to you. I confess that I’m angry but not against you.
 
Stake fodder
Stake fodder
I did not feel you were rude, and hope I was not either! I was interested to read your point of view, and appreciate your reading mine.
TriBel
TriBel
Yes - we seem to have conveniently forgotten about it (as opposed to me who inconveniently forgot).

fauxindigo

Scooby
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
766
Age
34
Location
New York
Hey all, just checking in.
Still NOT vaccinated and still NOT sick. No side effects.
I wake up, walk to the beach, ride my bike, exercise, eat, work, come home and relax..... I live a NORMAL life. I don't go around acting like everything in the world is perfectly peachy keen but I also don't go around acting like every person is infected with the rage virus and I need to know if they've been vaccinated or not.
When I go outside, the world does not seem as scary and chaotic as they portray it on the news. I know we all live in a bubble and there is A lot of bad stuff happening every day that I/we don't see, but I really believe at this point that the media has spun this pandemic on a massive scale in effort to brainwash and control the masses...and it's working. Just look at how many so eagerly jumped in line for a shot that is essentially an experiment at this point and in turn demonize those who don't fall in line.
I was around my mother who apparently caught covid in the hospital last November and died in January (she'd probably still be alive if she didn't bother going to the hospital for surgery); I was literally face to face with her, kissing her and I didn't care if I caught it... still, I didn't catch anything. Or maybe I did and didn't even realize it because last year they said there was a 99% survival rate and you can have mild or even no symptoms but these days, it's extremely deadly....
And before anyone says that since my mother died from covid I should be first in line for the vaccine- no. I think the hospital screwed her up more than anything.
 
Priceless
Priceless
So sorry for your loss, hope you're doing okay x

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,739
Sineya
Will this pandemic ever end ? or will we be in this cycle of numerous boosters and masks for many, many years to come ?

When does it stop being a pandemic and start being the same thing as the seasonal flu ? I thought that the vaccine would make that happen and it didn't , and new variants of every disease pop up, not just COVID.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
3,653
Age
38
I don't know about France, but here in the US you need a DL (at least an ID), and a Social Security Number card (the defacto National ID card) for about everything. I had to show one (along with mail) to even get a library card.

Typically, jobs, getting a place to live (even many motels require a DL or ID), many if not all loans, social programs, even buying things like tobacco and sometimes getting into movies require it. One guy couldn't get into a club because his DL was damaged (still showed his pic and age) while others find that bureaucracy won't accept an out of date DL.

Obviously, DL = Driver's License. Not going to type that out over and over, so it's DL.

And now "Real ID" is coming out complete with microchips (which can be traced, but so can cars, phones, and a bunch else, but some worry about this vaccine putting in microchips to trace you). It's clear that the government has a time table to have every citizen get one.

Even if you have one, try telling people you have one, especially the cop who just pulled you over, if you don't carry it with you. (Better have your proof of insurance in the latter case as well.)

The part that bothered me is that someone dragged me to a K-Mart...long story short, the cashier was very demanding, and a "friend" got me to go along rather than walking out. I gave false address and phone number since I didn't want the "special deal" being shoved down my throat anyway (just wanted her to shut up and let me buy what I had), but with my DL she got my real data. I was too shocked to then ask her why she had me fill out that info if all she had to do was enter my DL number!

Using a DL as a metaphor isn't a perfect one, but not all that dissimilar, and I find it more disturbing in some ways.
 
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fauxindigo

Scooby
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
766
Age
34
Location
New York
"Immunologist and former NIH scientist J.Bart Classen analyzed data on COVID vaccine adverse events reported to the UK's yellow card system and found thousands of reports of multiple symptoms that are "clear signals" of neurodegenerative disorders."...

As cases pile up (445 as of July 9) of the reportedly “rare” neurological disorder Guillain-Barré syndrome in people who received a COVID vaccine — forcing the sluggish U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to add a warning label to the Johnson & Johnson (J&J) shot — scientists are issuing urgent warnings about a possible tsunami of other types of neurological injuries.

Read the article. The Defender
 

Hunga Munga

Scooby
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
645
Age
51
  • Overall, we rate the Children’s Health Defense a strong conspiracy and quackery level advocacy group that frequently promotes unsupported claims. We also rate them low for factual reporting due to the promotion of propaganda as well as several failed fact checks.
 
TriBel
TriBel
Yeah...Good Luck with that. Apparently Factchecking/Media Bias sites are part of the conspiracy. Politifact was more concise. "Pants on Fire!.

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

God King of the Primordium
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
9,169
Black Thorn
My cigarettes just might be my salvation. I suggest that everyone starts puffing away. Quickly! To the Batmobile!! Do it now!


Brief Summary:

The coronavirus disease (COVID-19) epidemic represents a major therapeutic challenge. The highly contagious severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-COV-2) and the long duration of the disease have led to a massive influx of patients admitted in health services and intensive care units.

According to current knowledge, there are no treatments that prevent the spread of the infection, especially in exposed populations, or the disease progression to a severe form.

Daily active smokers are infrequent among outpatients or hospitalized patients with COVID-19. Several arguments suggest that nicotine is responsible for this protective effect via the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR).
Nicotine may inhibit the penetration and spread of the virus and have a prophylactic effect in COVID...


 
Spanky
Spanky
Leftovers just popped in my head

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
3,508
Location
Manchester
My cigarettes just might be my salvation. I suggest that everyone starts puffing away.
Yeah...saw those claims when they first came out ;last year and wondered whether I should start smoking again. 😄 I think the jury is still out on it. Latest thing I read was called "the Smoker's Paradox, which is - it may be true but if you did get Covid smoking increased your chances of getting it badly (I presume because your lungs are already compromised and smoking makes you more susceptible to diabetes). I think it's the nicotine rather than cigarette that benefits (IIRC there was a run on patches). I don't know this study but I do know that at least one study with similar findings (an American university in Utah?) was pulled because of connections to the Tobacco Industry
 
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
Start smoking again!

Athene

Scooby
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
2,703
Age
21
Sineya
It's annoying that they're bringing up how people in their 20s are spreading at the highest rate ever, like yeah because you opened clubs and restaurants, there's no limit on meeting people and masks are optional.
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
3,508
Location
Manchester
It's annoying that they're bringing up how people in their 20s are spreading at the highest rate ever, like yeah because you opened clubs and restaurants, there's no limit on meeting people and masks are optional.
Yeah...pretty sure that was their plan. Take away all restrictions and blame the irresponsible youth. Generally, people under 40 don't vote Tory...nor do the university cities and students could/should be back in September. What's annoyed me is how they've suddenly realised "unstructured festivals and events" are Covid spreader events. They didn't know this when the Euros, Wimbledon, and the Grand Prix were on?
 
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