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Give me you S7 story arcs, please !

Discussion in 'Sunnydale Cemetery' started by flow, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer Squeak

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    Black Thorn
    Well...yeah. :p
     
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  2. BuffyBot22

    BuffyBot22 Potential

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    Yeah, I really wish they had done that with Giles. But oh well, we got what we got lol.

    I didn't feel much closeness between the scoobies since Buffy's death, IMO. I wasn't going to have it be huge plot points I just wanted more scooby goodness like back in s1-4 and sorta in s5. After Buffy died, everything went all to hell, as you would expect, but s7 was the time to bring them back around to each other since it was the final season.

    Well my preferred couple would have been Bangel, but I know that would have never been plausible since DB was still currently shooting Angel at the time. But, they most definitely could have made Fuffy work in this season even if it was platonic. I felt like Spuffy took up too much valuable screen time that could have been spent on the scoobies, Fuffy (platonic or romantic), the actual plot. I mean just compare the Bangel seasons to the Spuffy seasons. Bangel and Angel never got as much screen time as Spuffy and Spike did. I guess Marti Noxon and Joss just really loved Spike, but when writers get obsessed with a character they often lose sight of what is important in a show and in this show the importance was Buffy, her friends, her family, and her mission.

    And I would never want a Xander/Buffy pairing, especially not now after all this time, it would seem like settling on both sides at this point.
     
  3. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    I should probably add that I'm not a fan of ships. I don't mind them, but they generally don't excite me either (this is why I forgot to mention Kennedy, overall I'm not fond of her interaction but I also find I just don't care about her presence one way or another, she was just another inserted prop for the writers to use). Season 7, like season 6, just had too many WTF moments (especially when it came to the characters I had come to love) that made it too hard for me to suspend disbelief for and just came off as forced writing. Therefore, my feelings regarding Spuffy have nothing to do with liking and disliking what I did.

    Heck, had they approached it differently, I think the Spuffy could've been really good IMO, or at least a good psychological thriller of some kind, but it came off as too much like unhealthy romance drivels (save Spike dies at the end) that failed to show proper respect to the series and characters involved. Even if I did like Spuffy, I think I'd have still disliked season 7.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
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  4. Cordeliagirl

    Cordeliagirl Oh, Buffy, we're sisters! With different hair.

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    Sineya
    I wish they didnt kill Cordelia off in Angel show. Also wish they have xander croiover on Angel qnd save cordy from having visions,and have a coma and possessed by jasmine and die from coma by time travelw and have angel take a vision away from her after Anya and Xander broke up or Anya die, and cordy save Xander from Caleb from taking his eyes out and destroy it by time travel and have them back together.
     
  5. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Spike skipping of into the Sun .....I like that
     
  6. Cordeliagirl

    Cordeliagirl Oh, Buffy, we're sisters! With different hair.

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    Sineya
    I mean **Crossover**, not croiover.
     
  7. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

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    Sineya
    Yeah, just before sunset....then he'll be floating on the breeze, leaving Faith to step in & console poor Buffy...... ;)
     
  8. LeeJones41

    LeeJones41 Townie

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    Are there similar threads for the other seasons?



    "Not-so-convincing mutiny"?:confused:
     
    flow: I meant to say that the mutiny was not really a convincing plot twist. It was quite out of character for Giles, Willow, Xander and Dawn.
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  9. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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  10. flow

    flow Will you just hold me ?

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    Dear thrasherpix,

    it took me a few days but now I am ready to come back to your post.

    I have read it several times now and I have to say that I agree with (almost) everything you wrote.

    I have heard so many people complaining about S7 and asking für Spike to be taken out entirely (or at least cut down to a minor back character) that I indeed was thinking that people don`t like the whole story arc of S7. Now I begin to understand that it is often more a dislike of Spike or of Spikes and Buffys relationship and a desire to see another love interest for Buffy in this season. Which is perfectly understandable if someone prefers another ship (I actually hate that word and try not to use it too often. Why call it "ship" ?? )

    Yes, we see a General Buffy, someone who is hard and brittle for a huge part of the season. I am reconciled with this because at the very end she chooses to share the power that has made her pitiless and in doing this she finds her own happiness at the very end . I love that twist of the story.

    I have mentioned in another thread that I heard (wether it is true or not I don`t know) the writers intended to kill Xander during the first battle at the vineyard. They changed that later and let him (just) lose an eye. To me the part where Buffy gets thrown out of the house makes so much more sense, if you consider that her most loyal friend has just died because of a mistake she made and now she wants to make the same mistake again. If you take the huge impact of that mistake (Xanders death) away, than the consequences are unfortunately no longer plausible.

    And they could have come back to Joyce/First influencing Dawn against Buffy by telling her Buffy will betray/not choose her. In empty places it is especially Dawns behaviour that seems out of character to me. There could have been even another way. They could just have elected Faith as new leader without throwing Buffy out of the house. Buffy could have left on her own decision after that.

    Yes, the AR should have been adressed more thoroughly. That is true. The only excuse I have for this negligience is, that maybe the writers didn`t have a clue how to adress ist. And maybe they just didn`t bother any more because they all knew it was going to be the final season and they were busy finding new jobs.

    iIam not sure if the question if Buffy loved or did not love Spike in S6 and/or S7 should have been adressed. To me Buffy has - since Angel broke up with her - a problem to admit to herself and to others that she is in love. I actually don`t remember if she ever told Riley " I love you" or if she just uses phrases like "I gave you my heart" etc. But it is an important point that Riley does not believe her to be in love with him. Is he right about that ? Is he wrong ? I don`t know. But in S6 she emphasizes several times that she does not and cannot love Spike. And in S7 she uses on several occasions phrases that deliberately avoid the word "love" when speaking to or about Spike. I believe, the reason that she never (until two minutes before the ending of the whole series) says "I love you" to Spike is not that the writers forgot to mention it but that it was consistent with her character and her story arc to not be able to adress this aspect.

    Some believe Buffy saying "Why does everyone in this house think I am still in love with Spike ?" proves that she has been in love with him before. I don`t think so. To me she wants to reassure everyone (and maybe herself) that she is at the very moment not in love with Spike. Wether that is true or not is a completely different question. But to me she does not deliberately imply anything about her feelings in S6 in this sentence. Maybe the line was meant to be"Why does everybody in this house still think I am in love with Spike?" Just one word swappped and you get different meaning. And maybe they didn`even notice that the word had been swapped until ist was too late and the scene had been shot.

    She does take at least some precautions as long as Spike has the trigger. He is often chained up in the basement especially when she is not around. The reason Robin takes him to his house, is that Buffy is on patrol that night and is not comfortable with Spike being without her in the house.

    Yes, the First wasn`t really horrifying throughout the whole season. But I found it it as a Big Bad more convincing than Adam or the Trio.

    Yes, the potentials should have been much more in the background. Buffy needed an (at least small) army for the final battle, thus only three or four potentials wouldn`t have done. But we could have had three potentials living in the house, having names and a background and the rest are just anonymous, unseen until they are needed and of course they do not complain, yammer or whine.

    I am not sure about Giles being influenced by the Jenny/First. He is a trained watcher. Even Robin and Faith know well that they are talking to the First and not to Nikki or the Mayor. They are still influenced because they are not prepared for something like that. Giles should have been prepared and probably was.

    In your twenties you are more likely to turn to people at your age for adice in personal affairts and not to your parents or parental figures. I have a really loving and trusting relationship with my mother but from my early to my late twenties she would have been the last person I would have asked for her opinion regarding my personal life. That changed again when I was in my thirties and had a child myself. Now my son is in his early twenties and we also have a very loving and trusting realtionship. Whenever he needs money or socks mended or just a pizza he would always turn to me. But I am not the first, second or third person he would ask for advice in personal matters. Of course Buffy could have asked Giles for tactical advice regarding a fight. I just wanted to express that I think it is natural that their personal relationship has changed in a very natural way.

    On the whole I do see the flaws and the negligence in S7. I am not closing my eyes deliberately to them. They just don`t kill the season off for me.

    After having spent my free saturday evening and half a bottle of white wine on this post, I may ask one last question:

    What does ETA mean ?

    flow
     
  11. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    Lots of people that age don't turn to someone older as they don't want to be judged as they can finally do the things they couldn't under the previous parental supervision (especially if it can get them cut off financially), nor want to be judged harshly by their peers doing the same, and they also want to assert their independence (even if they remain dependent in some ways in spite of the distance they put up). Being age segregated in schools also tends to encourage this trend whereas it would not be as natural if this wasn't imposed on them as kids. Plenty do have the "don't trust anyone over 30" until they're over 30 themselves.

    But that's only some people.

    When teens mix with adults more like peers, as Buffy did by the time she was 18 (and had been building up to it since at least 16), then the "don't trust anyone over 30" attitude normally doesn't take hold. Furthermore, Buffy considered Giles important to her team in both seasons 5 ("can't lose you") and even 6. She seemed that way in season 7...offhand, it seemed Giles was the only one she respected (even the Scoobies were treated more as servants than friends for the most part in a way I don't recall her ever treating them as before--she came close near the end of season 4, but that was because she was trying to keep them out of danger while she looked for Adam on her own so even that doesn't suggest Buffy would be as she was in season 7), until Giles took part in the conspiracy to kill Spike.

    Ultimately, the characters and story were written to promote Spuffy (despite the heroic end Spike attains) rather than as themselves.

    ETA means "Edited to Add."

    And, btw, ship is short for "relationship."
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 18, 2017 ---
    And one last thing...take Spike out of season 7 completely but otherwise leave the season as it was as much as possible, and I'd still dislike it.
     
  12. sosa lola

    sosa lola Scooby

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    I just posted the new chapter: Chapter 10. :) I'll post Chapter 11 tomorrow.
     
    flow: Thank you ! I`ll Keep reading !
  13. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    I just have to add this as it's so awesome to me:

    I don't understand Spuffy

    If Spike had given up the coat as part of making amends and putting his demonic self behind him would've greatly endeared the new Spike to me, and made me a lot more sympathetic to him...and could've inspired similar wonderful moments with other characters as well. Such a missed opportunity, IMO.
     
    javidscool: thank yoooooou <3 <3 <3
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  14. Anyanka Bunny Killer

    Anyanka Bunny Killer Squeak

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    Black Thorn
    Short and sweet:

    I'd lose the First, Andrew, the Potentials, and Wood. These characters muddied things up and took away the focus from the core Scoobies. And c'mon, the First was pretty lame anyway....oooh, I'm scary but I can't really do much except look like other people and make threats. Ooooh....terrifying. :rolleyes:

    Keep the Uber Vamps...they're more than enough to be the big bad.

    I would have Willow return from England, but have more of a problem controlling her dark side. In fact, I'd want Dark Willow to pop up a few times...rushing to the final two episodes, the Scoobies are preparing to fight the Uber Vamps, but before the battle, Andrew and Spike are mysteriously killed. Buffy learns that it was Dark Willow who did the killing...but she doesn't have time to deal with this because suddenly, the Uber Vamps appear and the fighting begins.

    As one of the Vamps attack Xander, Anya turns demon-y and fights them off....fighting side by side with Dark Willow. Their combined power slaughters A LOT of Vamps, but they keep coming. Out of nowhere, Tara's ghost appears, AND she's corporeal. She grabs Willow's hand, chants a spell of power, the air glitters, and the Vamps start dropping. Out of nowhere, a werewolf bounds into the fray, ripping vamp flesh and bone.

    Together, demon Anya, Dark Willow, ghost Tara, and werewolf Oz wreak havoc. The battle is nearly done. Buffy slays the final vamp amidst a spray of blood. Oz returns to human form. Ghost Tara hugs Anya, and Willow, who have both returned to their regular appearances. Willow clasps Oz's hand and thanks him. He shrugs, "That's what friends are for." He waves as he departs.
     
  15. Puppet

    Puppet My ass is not pansy!

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    Black Thorn
    Phew, this is a tough one. Probably because I have a love-hate relationship with this particular season.

    For example, I loved that we got more Spuffy (and not the truly unhealthy kind from S6) but I hated that it came at the expense of Buffy and Spike's characters, they felt so OOC to me for the most part. Spike being OOC, you could argue that was understandable, what with a brand-spanking new soul and all, but still...

    Anyway...as I wouldn't technically change the overall arc of the season, there are just some tweaks I would make here and there, and a few large-scale changes.

    I would definitely get the AR resolved, don't care if that means resolved in a Spuffy way or resolved in a Buffy sends Spike away way, just resolve it, dammit. As an actual victim of such a horrific crime myself, it makes me cringe everytime I consider how little resolution was giving to this supposedly huge storyline.

    I would keep Caleb, because I adore Nathan Fillion, but I would take away the preacher costume and that atrocious attempt at a Southern accent. Give him a different backstory, but keep him as the First's vessel. Have him do something worse than take out a Scooby eye, though, to really justify his evil and our hatred of him :)

    Definitely agree on more Scooby resolutions in-group and I'd love some frienship!Spander (if Buffy doesn't send Spike away, lol). Xander did appear more tolerant of Spike than he had ever been in the past. I might have found it intriguing to see a parallel of The Pack and Seeing Red while Spike was living in Xander's apartment, no matter how it came about.

    Definitely less Potentials. I wrote an AU fic a few years ago, that intoduced the S7 plot into a S2 setting, and I had six potentials (one of them was Faith) that I brought in, with unique backstory's and voices, but without taking away from the 'main cast' at the same time. There is a way to go about it in an acceptable fashion.

    Don't remember who said it rn (sorry) but I would definitely make the First like it was in CWDP - taking the shape of deceased loved ones or innocents the gang hadn't been able to save. Since this is fantasy world and not actually the show, I'd bring in quite a bit of old faces, but not too many either, that would take away from the alive characters. But yes, Jenny for Giles, maybe even that friend he felt responsible for killing in his Ripper days. CGI doesn't exist in fantasy world, so Jesse for Xander (poor man wasn't even in CWDP, only ep NB wasn't in). Anyway, you get the idea.

    I would also give Faith a larger role, whether she shows up early or not (I rather liked her arc on Angel S4, though). She had real potential, no pun intended, and it just felt wasted, like she was just there because it would have been weird if she wasn't, considering the storyline.

    Can't think of anymore rn, so that's it :D
     
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  16. flow

    flow Will you just hold me ?

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    That was indeed one of the najor flaws of S7.

    Flow
     
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