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Go Fish, Inca Mummy Girl, or Reptile Boy. Which one would you keep?

Professor Walsh

Feminist slayerette
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Black Thorn
I just feel like Buffy and everyone should be a little more concerned. Yes Buffy is the slayer, but even she can be taken advantage of. I just think she should be more cautious about these things. Kind of like a Ted. The episode implies one thing and then backs out of it by saying well that's not what really happened, so let's forget the situation. Just bothers me is all.


I clearly read this episode very differently. I mean we are talking Fish rape here, and Buffy as a female is treated horribly during the episode. That's the difference for me, the other two can be pasted off as light, b-movie cheese, but this one is so much more crude and nasty with its gender politics. I don't think it works on any level.

Fish rape? I think I need you to refresh my memory.

If I were to keep merely one, I'd keep "Reptile Boy". That's where Angel sniffs the bracelet in the cemetery, isn't it? They all have good moments, though. Besides, Soviet steroids? Fun in my book.
 

Mr Trick

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Fish rape? I think I need you to refresh my memory.

If I were to keep one, I'd keep "Reptile Boy". That's where Angel sniffs the bracelet in the cemetery, isn't it?

Well Passion of the Nerd said the same. Does he need to refresh his memory too?:D Even if not its still a very mean episode gender wise. Buffy is treated horribly.
 

Spanky

Scooby
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Black Thorn
Well, PotN probably saw the show recently. I'm just an oldie being lured back here by someone who's good at distracting me. I haven't watched the show in forever.
Dont be blaming me!!! You hung around on your own accord! Slanderous.
 
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
Oh, you know I can't resist your charm and wit.

Monkey Pants

Bored Now
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Black Thorn
I love all the cheesy MotW episodes and would choose those over a majority of the later seasons. I really like all of these episodes. My favorite is probably Go Fish, but I would have to choose Inca Mummy Girl for Oz's introduction! Some Assembly Required is worst than these.
 

Fuffy Baith

2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member
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Sineya
I love all the cheesy MotW episodes and would choose those over a majority of the later seasons. I really like all of these episodes. My favorite is probably Go Fish, but I would have to choose Inca Mummy Girl for Oz's introduction! Some Assembly Required is worst than these.
I agree. Cheesy MotW episodes are still more entertaining than some of the later seasons episodes, which can be boring. Yay, another person who likes Go Fish! Lol.
 

Sternbeeere

Glory´s sane(?) groupie
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I think one problem with this episodes is that they have good character development portrayed in them and thus cannot be left out easily, even if the plot is weak. The second, much worse problem, is that two of the episodes (Go Fish, Reptile Boy) address serious issues, namely sexual violence, and do not deal with those issues properly. In Reptile Boy it is simply downplayed, in Go Fish, there is a victim blaming going on, which is normalized. Buffys complaint about, what happened to her, is completely ignored by her friends and appears as some childish moodiness. Note, that the swimmer guy was NOT in his fishform yet and that the human adults, who are on top of that authority figures (the trainer and Snyder) commit the victim blaming. That was really upsetting for me.
Therefore i think that I either would keep Inca Mummy Girl, since it lacks those serious issues and put the character development things into other episodes or I would rather rewrite Go Fish and Reptile Boy into episodes that address the problem of sexual violence properly.
 
K
katmobile
The still pretty podcast would disagree with about Reptile Boy and point out at least the douchebags get some comeuppance but yeah Go Fish totally.

Carrie Hopewell

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Sineya
Well, Go Fish to me is the truly crappy one, especially when it succeeds IOHEFY and precedes Becoming. Reptile Boy isn't a great episode but it has Willow's awesome rant (it's always nice when she asserts herself in the early seasons) and also the moment when Cordy says "You did it, you saved us." and throws herself at Angel... really Cordelia's entire monologue "You guys. I just... hate you guys! The weirdest things always happen when you're around! And you! You're going to jail for fifteen thousand years!" Plus there's progress in Buffy and Angel's relationship.
 

Mr Trick

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Well, Go Fish to me is the truly crappy one, especially when it succeeds IOHEFY and precedes Becoming. Reptile Boy isn't a great episode but it has Willow's awesome rant (it's always nice when she asserts herself in the early seasons) and also the moment when Cordy says "You did it, you saved us." and throws herself at Angel... really Cordelia's entire monologue "You guys. I just... hate you guys! The weirdest things always happen when you're around! And you! You're going to jail for fifteen thousand years!" Plus there's progress in Buffy and Angel's relationship.

Very true, those are all great moments in Repitile Boy and do lift it above the other two episodes I'd say. It is one of Cordelia's strongest episodes at that point, CC knocks it out of the park.
 

caitaintdead

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If I was asked what I saw as the weakest 3 episodes in Season 2 my list would be different to the one presented to us in the question. Bad Eggs and Ted are extremely cringeworthy episodes and Some Assembly Required isn't the best either.

I actually really love Reptile Boy. I like the episodes where Buffy has to struggle to come to grips with balancing being Buffy the teenage girl and Buffy the vampire slayer. Reptile Boy also treats us to some wonderful Cordelia moments. "Oh buffy it's like we're sisters - but with really different hair!"

Go Fish is such a classic episode with so many great moments that I could never list it as one I dislike. Xander in the speedos is wonderful. All the girls are looking smoking hot. I love Willow interrogating Jonathan and it turns out he has peed in the pool. Also the great character development of Cordelia when she offers to stay with fish Xander. I also thought it was clever to have Angelus biting one of the swimmers and spitting the blood out because of the taste of drugs.

Inca Mummy Girl always surprises me because Xander is not my favourite character but I find him extremely likeable in this episode and I found it believable that a girl arriving into Sunnydale would find Xander endearing and attractive. I also felt extremely awful for his bad luck with women after the Ms. French fiasco. I'm always a sucker for dress up episodes and this one hits all the right marks with Willow in her Eskimo costume, Xander doing something very pop culture and clever and Cordelia wearing a bikini to a nightclub the way only she would.
 

Mr Trick

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If I was asked what I saw as the weakest 3 episodes in Season 2 my list would be different to the one presented to us in the question. Bad Eggs and Ted are extremely cringeworthy episodes and Some Assembly Required isn't the best either.

I actually really love Reptile Boy. I like the episodes where Buffy has to struggle to come to grips with balancing being Buffy the teenage girl and Buffy the vampire slayer. Reptile Boy also treats us to some wonderful Cordelia moments. "Oh buffy it's like we're sisters - but with really different hair!"

Go Fish is such a classic episode with so many great moments that I could never list it as one I dislike. Xander in the speedos is wonderful. All the girls are looking smoking hot. I love Willow interrogating Jonathan and it turns out he has peed in the pool. Also the great character development of Cordelia when she offers to stay with fish Xander. I also thought it was clever to have Angelus biting one of the swimmers and spitting the blood out because of the taste of drugs.

Inca Mummy Girl always surprises me because Xander is not my favourite character but I find him extremely likeable in this episode and I found it believable that a girl arriving into Sunnydale would find Xander endearing and attractive. I also felt extremely awful for his bad luck with women after the Ms. French fiasco. I'm always a sucker for dress up episodes and this one hits all the right marks with Willow in her Eskimo costume, Xander doing something very pop culture and clever and Cordelia wearing a bikini to a nightclub the way only she would.

Bad Eggs is just avenege for me not terrible. Ted gets a bad rep. The performances of SMG and John Ritter alone raise it above being terrible.

It is a great Cordy episode. Out of the three it is the one I'm warming more to. Still find it a bit dull and overlly cheesy, but yeah maybe not as bad as I used to think.

I think what your demostrating with your highlights from Go Fish and IMG is that even the worse episodes still have small moments which make them worth watching. For me their both still terrible episodes.
 

Squidprint

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I actually generally enjoy all three of those episodes. I think a major downfall for Go Fish is the placement of the episode, it just feels really weird to have that be the episode before Becoming. If it had switched places with "I Only Have Eyes For You" it might be looked upon more favorably. Both Reptile Boy and Go Fish do address some difficult topics, and don't necessarily succeed, but at least we as the audience are supposed to understand the actions of Principal Snyder, the swim team members, the frat boys, etc as reprehensible and disturbing. I actually just watched Go Fish last night since I recently started doing a re-watch with my boyfriend (he's never seen the show before) and he was very angry that Principal Snyder was commenting on the way Buffy was dressed. He said "What? She's wearing a perfectly normal outfit! What the hell?" I'd like to think that the writers put this in the episode knowing that this is what actually happens to a lot of girls, and that it should anger us.

Anyways, I'm sad to say, but I would probably dump "Go Fish", simply because I don't like where it's placed in the season.

If I could save all of those and pick a different episode I would easily dump "Some Assembly Required." Is there actually anything good about that episode? It's so dull. Every time I do a Buffy rewatch I forget that I have to sit through that stinker. Actually, I'm convinced the creator of this topic forgot about "Some Assembly Required" in the making of their Worst 3 list.
 
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
Completely agree with your points about the placement of Go Fish & that Some Assembly Required is awful.

Mr Trick

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I actually generally enjoy all three of those episodes. I think a major downfall for Go Fish is the placement of the episode, it just feels really weird to have that be the episode before Becoming. If it had switched places with "I Only Have Eyes For You" it might be looked upon more favorably. Both Reptile Boy and Go Fish do address some difficult topics, and don't necessarily succeed, but at least we as the audience are supposed to understand the actions of Principal Snyder, the swim team members, the frat boys, etc as reprehensible and disturbing. I actually just watched Go Fish last night since I recently started doing a re-watch with my boyfriend (he's never seen the show before) and he was very angry that Principal Snyder was commenting on the way Buffy was dressed. He said "What? She's wearing a perfectly normal outfit! What the hell?" I'd like to think that the writers put this in the episode knowing that this is what actually happens to a lot of girls, and that it should anger us.

Anyways, I'm sad to say, but I would probably dump "Go Fish", simply because I don't like where it's placed in the season.

If I could save all of those and pick a different episode I would easily dump "Some Assembly Required." Is there actually anything good about that episode? It's so dull. Every time I do a Buffy rewatch I forget that I have to sit through that stinker. Actually, I'm convinced the creator of this topic forgot about "Some Assembly Required" in the making of their Worst 3 list.

Excately. And even worse by the end of the episode Buffy seems to be slut shameing herself. The gender politics are just the worse in this episode. You make a good point about its placing in the season, but then that is the least of its problems for me?
 

Squidprint

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Excately. And even worse by the end of the episode Buffy seems to be slut shameing herself. The gender politics are just the worse in this episode. You make a good point about its placing in the season, but then that is the least of its problems for me?

I'm not sure I remember Buffy slut shaming herself in that particular episode, but I could have missed it. Do you mean when she makes the comment about doing the whole swim team? I see that more as gallows humor, but yeah, I could do without that line being in the episode. I can definitely see how the issues presented make it a loser for a lot of people, but in the end I do still find myself enjoying the overall narrative of the episode.
 
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
That's the moment yes.

caitaintdead

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Black Thorn
I never saw an indication of Buffy slut shaming herself in Go Fish. I always thought it seemed like she was incredibly certain of herself and confident in her belief to dress however she wanted.

I thought it was an interesting episode that touched on the issue well for 1998, a time when the concept but not the phrase 'slut shaming' didn't even exist.

There are some wonderful depths to be explored in terms of sexuality. If we look at 'the gaze' as a media concept we can see that the scene of Xander in the speedos is a 'female gaze' as opposed to more frequently utilised 'male gaze'. Buffy, Cordelia and Willow are quite literally in seats designed for 'watching', in seats that are above Xander so they are in a position to look down on him. The show finds a way to momentarily give the women in the show the power of the gaze, and tellingly Xander is extremely uncomfortable with it to which the girls roll their eyes.

This thread has inspired me to watch it again to see what else I can spot with this in mind!
 

Mr Trick

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I never saw an indication of Buffy slut shaming herself in Go Fish. I always thought it seemed like she was incredibly certain of herself and confident in her belief to dress however she wanted.

I thought it was an interesting episode that touched on the issue well for 1998, a time when the concept but not the phrase 'slut shaming' didn't even exist.

There are some wonderful depths to be explored in terms of sexuality. If we look at 'the gaze' as a media concept we can see that the scene of Xander in the speedos is a 'female gaze' as opposed to more frequently utilised 'male gaze'. Buffy, Cordelia and Willow are quite literally in seats designed for 'watching', in seats that are above Xander so they are in a position to look down on him. The show finds a way to momentarily give the women in the show the power of the gaze, and tellingly Xander is extremely uncomfortable with it to which the girls roll their eyes.

This thread has inspired me to watch it again to see what else I can spot with this in mind!

You make a good point about the gaze being reversed onto Xander. I suppose the problem with that argument is that scene is basically played for comic effect. Nothing wrong with that of course and I do find it one of the few good moments in the episode, but it does undercut any idea of it subverting gender for me.
 

caitaintdead

caiters gonna cait
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You make a good point about the gaze being reversed onto Xander. I suppose the problem with that argument is that scene is basically played for comic effect. Nothing wrong with that of course and I do find it one of the few good moments in the episode, but it does undercut any idea of it subverting gender for me.

See, for me, BtVS (at least in its early seasons) was about using comic effect to tackle heavy issues. There were other TV shows that were available at the time that discussed things from a literal viewpoint. BtVS was less direct, it was about leading you to the issue and then allowing you to decide for yourself what you thought. This was actually one of my favourite things about the show, that it never felt like an after school special lecturing me. The combination of comedy and demons to tackle issues never felt like a problem to me personally, but if it was to you then I can understand. We all see things differently :)
 
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