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Has your opinion changed in the course of the series?

AngelsCordy

Townie
Joined
Jul 20, 2019
Messages
37
Age
32
Has your mind changed since you first watched Buffy and Angel? Like your favorite character, perhaps the action of the series? or have your favorite ships changed over the run over the series?
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
2,922
Age
37
On my second rewatch, I noticed Xander was a lot braver than I remembered him, while Willow was more petty. Subsequent rewatches has reinforced this. The effect is that whereas I used to favor Willow over Xander I now see them as about the same.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Xander is never petty or that Willow is never brave, far from it on both accounts. It's just that I somehow missed a lot of this on the first watch. I still love both characters. It's just now I love them equally.
 

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
1,262
Location
Australia
Like @thrasherpix I used to favour Willow over Xander, whereas these days I adore Xander but have ambivalent feelings about Willow, especially in the later seasons of the show.

For years I preferred BtVS to AtS, but gradually AtS took over my heart.

I used to like and mildly ship Fred and Wes (while always preferring Fred/Gunn) but these days I deeply dislike the Fresley pairing.

I used to really not like Connor, until many rewatches helped me to appreciate his character much more. Same goes for Dawn. Now I'm one of their biggest defenders.

While I still don't particularly like her, I much more appreciate Buffy as a character and admire her more than I used to.

I used to love and blindly defend Faith to ridiculous degrees. While I still greatly like Faith and appreciate how well-written her arc is, I'm less quick to defend her and I acknowledge her wrongdoings more than I used to.
 

Myheadsgonenumb

Potential
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
256
Age
34
Location
England
Wow I can't believe there's ambivalent feelings to Willow out there - I've only ever encountered a wall to wall love in (I think she's a stone cold psychopath hiding in a fuzzy sweater).

Throughout the time I've watched Buffy I had feelings that changed whilst the show was still current based on what was happening at the time, and since it has finished feelings that have changed because I've aged 20 years.

In the first category I have Spuffy - which I never considered until he fell in love with her, but then became my favourite thing about the show (not the majority of season 6 - which I have never liked)
There is Tara - who I didn't like until Kennedy arrived - and then it was a case of 'bring back Tara - all is forgiven'
I loved Cordelia and Xander together and hated it when they broke up ... but then I got over and got behind Xander and Anya.
The way Giles treats Buffy in season 7 started to cause me to retroactively dislike Giles, I no longer liked him in earlier seasons because of the way I knew he was going to treat her later down the line (that still holds, I'm afraid).
And completely opposite to that - whilst I don't like Faith throughout the whole run, I do give her props for being the only one that doesn't gang up on Buffy in 'Empty Places' and the only one who goes after her.

In the second category - I always assumed I loved Wesley. I did a total rewatch in 2016 ... nope he's awful. I don't even think his character arc is that amazing - he was already dark in season 3 when he was willing to leave Willow with the mayor in order to destroy the box of gavrok. He just stopped falling over his own feet, made his voice gravelly and stopped shaving. That's not really development, people! I also don't like Fresley at all.
I've found on rewatch that Season 6 Buffy and Season 4 Angel aren't as bad if you binge watch them than they seem when you have to wait a week for the next episode.
I don't dislike Connor or Dawn, any more - I now understand where both of them are coming from and they get a rough ride in the fandom. I will actually defend Dawn in discussions about her now.
I've realised that Xander and Anya did have real problems before 'Hell's Bells' and were just ignoring them - so whilst I still hate that episode, it no longer seems as contrived for me, and I don't like their relationship as much as I used to.
I am much more critical of Spuffy. As a teenager I would get very frustrated with Buffy for just not loving him ... but now I'm like 'oh yeah, no - he's stalking her - she's not being unreasonable.'
I love and appreciate the character of Buffy much more than I did when I was a teenager. Spike used to be my favourite character but now it is definitely her (on Buffy - Doyle and Cordy are my faves on Angel and always have been/ probably always will be.)
I really like Tara now.

Things that have never and will never change:
My love for Doyle
My love of Angel singing Mandy
'Crush' will always be my favourite episode of Buffy.
Willow will always irritate me.
I'll always dislike Riley.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
719
Black Thorn
Yes! Of course it has!
There are more than this but here s just a few.
  • I hated Angel with ever part of my soul in Buffy. I didn't watch Angel at the time because I didn't like him. I watched it after because I missed Buffy and I ended up loving Angel - both the show and the character.
  • I hated Cordelia, i found her pretty weak and pathetic but I came to respect her on Angel.
  • I loved Giles then season 6-7 came and I very much despise him in those seasons.
  • I hated Bangel (because I didn't like Angel) but I have a much bigger respect for it now.
  • I didn't like Spuffy, I'm neutral about it now, and I saw it coming since the end of season 2. I could have liked it, the way it played out made me dislike it. After a second watch I do enjoy some parts of it.
  • I like Riley more (I already liked him), he's sweet in season 4, season 5 is where I didn't like him.
  • I love Wesley now, I didn't care about him before.
  • I love Buffy season 4 now, before I didn't like it.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
7,396
Age
29
Wow I can't believe there's ambivalent feelings to Willow out there - I've only ever encountered a wall to wall love in (I think she's a stone cold psychopath hiding in a fuzzy sweater).

I'm interested to know what makes you think that.

I think the same way about Riley. Briley isn't the wholesome relationship the show likes to make out it is, which is why Xander's speech to Buffy about how Riley "is the one that comes along once in a life time" is so infuriating. As much as I dislike Spuffy, at least it was honest about how unhealthy it was for Buffy (and Spike), Briley on the other hand is treated as a relationship that Buffy should want to be in, when in reality she should be running away as fast as she can. Missing that helicopter was the best thing to happen to Buffy.

[/QUOTEThere is Tara - who I didn't like until Kennedy arrived - and then it was a case of 'bring back Tara - all is forgiven'
😆 Kennedy makes any character look better by comparison. Would Warren be as hated as much as he is if he'd shot Kennedy instead?

And completely opposite to that - whilst I don't like Faith throughout the whole run, I do give her props for being the only one that doesn't gang up on Buffy in 'Empty Places' and the only one who goes after her.
I think Faith is an overrated character, particularly in Season 3, but I have to give her points for being the only one to put Kennedy in her place and tell her to back off. That's something the scoobies should've been doing all along.

I don't dislike Connor or Dawn, any more - I now understand where both of them are coming from and they get a rough ride in the fandom. I will actually defend Dawn in discussions about her now.
I still dislike teenage Connor. Dawn herself is ok but Season 5 sucked storyline wise. Here's a previously unseen and unheard of character that is sooooooooooooo important to Buffy that the slayer is willing to sacrifice herself in order to save her. Season 5 would've been a crappy way to end the series in my view.

I really like Tara now.
Tara's grown on me too. The only scene where I get annoyed by her and Willow is when they're doing the babytalk. If you read the dialogue in script form and didn't know who Tara and Willow were, you'd think it was a mother talking to her child.

Her lop-sided smile is also a little annoying.

I like Riley more (I already liked him), he's sweet in season 4, season 5 is where I didn't like him.
I actually dislike Riley more now than I did when I first watched it. His season 5 behaviour was awful but he also shows shades of it in Season 4. Buffy actually dodged a bullet there. The niceties of season 4 makes me think that was just the "honeymoon" period and the Riley we see in Season 5 is where the mask truly starts to slip.
 
Myheadsgonenumb
Myheadsgonenumb
This is not the thread for me to list everything that is wrong with Ms. Rosenberg : ) ... You are completely right about Riley, the helicopter and the warning signs existing in S4.

spikenbuffy

"Preparation, preparation, preparation"
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
1,483
Age
25
Location
France
I used to hate Not Fade Away but now I like it, still not my favorite finale though & I also hated Restless because of its awkwardness but I've grown to love it because of that, I see it as a great episode now.
I love less Spin The Bottle than before, the funniest about this episode is only Liam.
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
I think Restless needs to be watched straight after Primeval since it is supposed to be the same day and is basically what happened after the battle.

Dora

Scooby
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
1,049
Age
53
I disliked the way the original scoobies were used in S6 and 7
Giles would have never just walked out on Buffy so out of Character he never even came back for Buffy but for Dark Willow and S7 he went away came back nothing like he had been in the first 5 seasons
Would Xander have left Anya at the altar...... Rubbish !
Willow had possible the worst character assassination apart from Buffy herself , physically fighting with buffy etc after saving her life ....trot
Dawn what a bitch.....Better in S7 until she through out , what was that rubbish when Buffy was stuck with her in the grave at the end of S6 ?
Riley went the same he was the first character that had to go , made to look bad , so Spuffy could happen
Found Angel icky 15 year old girl 240 year old man
Loved Cordelia in Buffy never watched Angel
Loved the character Spike But as a evil demon he had a short shelf life , ther whole chip thing was played to death , then what do you do with the character apart from put him with Buffy ? .once that started it was the beginning of the end of BTVS , when a good program went bad,unless your a Spuffy shipper
 
B
Btvs fan
You really ahoukd give Angel the show a go

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
7,396
Age
29
Loved the character Spike But as a evil demon he had a short shelf life , ther whole chip thing was played to death , then what do you do with the character apart from put him with Buffy ? .once that started it was the beginning of the end of BTVS , when a good program went bad,unless your a Spuffy shipper
I think there were ways they could've kept Spike around without pairing him up with Spuffy. The writers could've used him to build up the demon side of Sunnydale more (kind o like Angel did with LA). Not every demon is going to be out to get Buffy. Spuffy was detrimental to Spike's character as it was to the overall story of the show. Spike was better evil but he was too competent that way and nearly killed Buffy at least twice so obviously couldn't stay in that mindset.

I do wonder if they should've made Tara an actual demon (but one that looks human with her personality) which also gives another way to explore the demon community. Also, with her family telling her she's a "disgusting demon", it would also be kind of a way of saying that Tara shouldn't be ashamed of who she is but embrace it, or at the very least have magic users be considered part of the demon community which gets Willow involved as well.
 

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
7,358
Location
Australia
Sineya
Yes, plus being in the fandom changes opinions too. I dont see Buffy as the best tv ever any more, nor am I as harsh on it as others are. "High school is hell" wasnt the attraction for me and I prefer the years outside of highschool as I have aged, although Bangel is just classic.

I think all of the characters and seasons are well rounded and dont look to blame the writers for every bit I dont like, I prefer to discuss the show 'in show' in canon vs outside forces, so that hasn't changed. I trust the story in story - keep the magic. I tend to want to challenge the general thoughts of fandom now because I have talked about this show so long it gets boring when every single opinion is predictable on a certain topic, so I look at it from other angles and through other motivations of the characters. I respect the creators much more now than I have in the past and admire all actors since seeing how much flack they cop.

So overall I have more respect for the story and those who tell it, while acknowledging that it is not the best story ever told.
 

Cohen

Warrior
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
1,637
Location
Neptune, California
I used to think Bangel was epic, but over the course of 20+ years I’ve begun to understand that Bangel never really made sense, and Buffy really didn’t know him at all, at least based on what is actually on screen. It’s the perfect example of teenage first love. But it’s not truly evident of love. More obsession and passion. I don’t see it as “epic” any more.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,007
Age
48
I used to think Bangel was epic, but over the course of 20+ years I’ve begun to understand that Bangel never really made sense, and Buffy really didn’t know him at all, at least based on what is actually on screen. It’s the perfect example of teenage first love. But it’s not truly evident of love. More obsession and passion. I don’t see it as “epic” any more.
I think it was real love but it was based on their mutual loneliness, loveliness, isolation and the idealisation that comes from first true love. I also think there is a spirtual connection between them, that they will always love each in some way but I also think they stiffle each other ultimately and neither realises that the other has changed and will continue to change and they both being through darkness the other can't really understand and by necessity neither was there for the other. I know it's not a popular nature on here but I think Angel has as much need to wear the trousers all the time as Riley does and Buffy idealises him too much to see it. I suppose I see them like the superhero couple in that Will Smith film - they remain connected but can't stay together as their mutual love weakens them both and then they can't function as the heroes they need to be.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
867
Age
38
I think it was real love but it was based on their mutual loneliness, loveliness, isolation and the idealisation that comes from first true love. I also think there is a spirtual connection between them, that they will always love each in some way but I also think they stiffle each other ultimately and neither realises that the other has changed and will continue to change and they both being through darkness the other can't really understand and by necessity neither was there for the other. I know it's not a popular nature on here but I think Angel has as much need to wear the trousers all the time as Riley does and Buffy idealises him too much to see it. I suppose I see them like the superhero couple in that Will Smith film - they remain connected but can't stay together as their mutual love weakens them both and then they can't function as the heroes they need to be.
You had a 15 year old girl and 27 year old guy looking from a blacked out car at her. That's creepy whichever way you slice it. Which leads to an issue I have with Joss and his writing. He wants it both ways. He chose to film and direct that but he also chose to make it a huge love story at the same time (which is it Joss it's one or the other it cant be both) . Or in S7 where he chose to have a rape (and frankly racist) metaphor with the Watchers infecting a chained up Buffy with evil black seed that a few episodes later became this great Empowerment spell. Or how Dawn was suddenly made out of Buffy by the Monks .. wait what???..
 
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