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Hot Topic: Should Buffy have believed that Spike actually had a soul?

Priceless

Scooby
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Yes Buffy should have believed Spike when he said he had a soul. Spike had always ridiculed Angel and his soul-having, so it seems out of character for him to pretend he now had one. There seems little for Spike to gain by lying. Even if he thought Buffy would care for him if he had a soul, he had no guarantee of that. If he'd been lying he would have told Buffy immediately, not tried to hide the fact. Spike isn't good at playing the long game and he isn't machiavellian enough to do this to trick Buffy and Buffy knows him well enough to know that.
 

PaulParmar1

Spuffy Forever
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Sineya
Spike has no motive to lying and it was clear through his actions that she should believe him.
And she did cause she loved Spike.
Spike getting a soul was an amazing moment and if Buffy didn't believe him that would've been heartbreaking in his journey.
So my answer is yes! Buffy should've believed Spike through his actions
 
Last edited:

buffy1990

"Every now and then, people surprise you."
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Spike never said "Buffy I have a soul". She figured it out on her own in the church when he was rambling about the spark in him. So it was more a case of believing in her own instincts.
Agreed. It just clicked in the church as he was talking about "the spark," paired with all his crazy actions that episode, that he had a soul. It wasn't really about her believing him at that point because she knew it to be true.
 

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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Sineya
The question isn't whether she should have believed Spike, but whether she should have so easily accepted that he had a soul.
 

Spanky

I'm came here to chew bubblegum and go off topic.
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Black Thorn
I believe it was the love that Buffy had for Spike which allowed her to see into his heart, nay, his very soul and decide he is a changed man.
 
Puppet
Puppet
You've really sharpened your sarcasm; it's life a fine blade, now :)
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
I believe in you Mr.Pole
F
flow
I don`t see any sarcasm here - you are my hero, Mr. Pole !

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Black Thorn
Spike has no motive to lying
Doesn’t he? And i mean not ensouled Spike but soulless Spike wants to be with Buffy so desperately. Buffy’s says no i don’t/can’t love you. He knows that the issue she has is he is evil ergo why not act like he has a soul? Seems like he would have motivation to lie so she will be with him.

Anyway i never thought about this, sorta just accepted it when it came. But in retrospect she probably should have been somewhat skeptical. If even for a moment. With Angel, when she found out he had a soul she had already been looking for an explanation as to why he hadn’t killed her before, why he had helped her/ saved her life in fact. So when he gives the explanation she seems to accept it due to it falling in step with his actions. But with Spike due to chip before soul that same logic doesn’t work.

Further as Buffy i would have been extremely skeptical of the alleged soul restoration because the only other time she saw this was with Angel and the difference between Angel / Angelus were significant - behavior, speech, dress. Yet Spike when not incredibly nutty was acting the same as his unsouled counterpart. It would give a reasonable person pause.

So maybe the answer is supposed to be romantic - that she “just knew”? But it seems to me that throwing out the romantic element she probably should have at least considered the option that he was lying to get her to be with him.
 

GoSpuffy

Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer
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Black Thorn
Buffy and Spike had a connection. They knew each other intimately. They had been through a lot in the 5 years previous and she had that insight to fall back on. Even when he was full on evil in S2 she was able to trust him enough to have a truce and form an alliance. Buffy knows Spike, what makes him tick, his motivations. She had seen him at his worst and at his best and she knows he is one hell of a vampire.
 
Spanky
Spanky
WTF am I? Tinkerbell?
I do believe in Mr. Pole! I do believe in Mr. Pole!

Puppet

You rocks think you're so smart.
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Black Thorn
So maybe the answer is supposed to be romantic - that she “just knew”? But it seems to me that throwing out the romantic element she probably should have at least considered the option that he was lying to get her to be with him.
To me, I refer back to what @GoSpuffy said in an earlier post; it wasn't about romance, it was about instinct. Buffy didn't trust him because she had feelings for him, she trusted her own instincts that helped her figure out what his crazy ramblings in that church meant. To me, that makes almost perfect sense.
 

white avenger

white avenger
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The question isn't whether she should have believed Spike, but whether she should have so easily accepted that he had a soul.
Given what Buffy knew about Spike, how he never seems to do anything in small measures, and his love of grand gestures, I think that, once she heard him mention "the spark," which pretty much explained the way that he had been acting since his return to Sunnydale, after the momentary shock, she couldn't have come to any other possible conclusion. Her only question would have been "How?"
 

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Buffy and Spike had a connection. They knew each other intimately. They had been through a lot in the 5 years previous and she had that insight to fall back on. Even when he was full on evil in S2 she was able to trust him enough to have a truce and form an alliance. Buffy knows Spike, what makes him tick, his motivations. She had seen him at his worst and at his best and she knows he is one hell of a vampire.
Ok that's cool - but I don't understand how this translates to her instinctively knowing that he has a soul? Are you saying its because of their close connection?
 
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
She means my first post in the thread not this one

flow

Scooby
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The question isn't whether she should have believed Spike, but whether she should have so easily accepted that he had a soul.
I don`t really see the difference, but maybe it is, because my English isn`t good enough. It sounds the same to me. If she believed him, that he got the soul, how could she not accept, that he had a soul ? She could have disliked it or regarded it as unimportant, but not accept, that the soul was there ? That sounds to me like not accepting, that he has a nose or two eyes. If it is there, it is there. But maybe I just got your question wrong. If so, I´d really like to know.

Some have mentioned Buffys instinct. I would use the word intuition. I don`t know, if it is the right word here, but to me Buffy is a person, who acts a lot on intuition and she mostly gets it right.

She might as well have accepted it because of her experience with another souled/soulless vampire. She never doubted, that Angel had a soul, when she first met him. She did not doubt, that Willows spell worked at the end of Becoming. And I don`t think, she doubted, that he got his soul back after he lost it again in S4 of AtS. At least I don`t remember her asking him "Do you have a soul?", when he turned up in End Of Days.

And I don`t really see, how Angel - or Spike - could have proven the existence of their souls. After all it is still a highly debated question, if souls exists at all, even for humans :)

Her only question would have been "How?"
Which actually was her only question ;-)

flow
 
Curious Pathos
Curious Pathos
Thank you, the English was confusing me, too. It sounds like, "the SAME thing, not the same THING" to me. What is she trying to clarify?

brinkster130

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Sineya
It would have been smart of Buffy (and all the scoobies) to think about it a little more than she (they) did. Not so much for Spike specifically, but more in general...if vampires can just go out and get a soul if they want one it really changes the way the demon world works. It seems odd that they would just accept that this was some special one time thing and not try and look into the how, why, and what of it.
 

MarieVampSlayer

Bloody hell, Sodding, blimey, shagging, knickers..
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Sineya
I never though about it but yeah they should have been more mistrustful of him. But S7 was pretty rushed on so many issues. It's like they didn't take the time to make it more beliveable.
 

Spanky

I'm came here to chew bubblegum and go off topic.
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Do you think that if SMG had not come out and said "this is my last season" it would have been different? Do you think that Whedon said, 'screw you, we will concentrate on Spike then' as a form of punishment. Much the same way he punished CC for 'betraying' him.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
Never thought of that...but wouldn’t be surprised.

EarthLogic

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.if vampires can just go out and get a soul if they want one it really changes the way the demon world works.
THIS HERE is my biggest problem with the storyline. Not once is this even given the slightest bit of thought by any of the characters.
 
Spanky
Spanky
Because, in theory, it would make Buffy a murderess
Curious Pathos
Curious Pathos
Assume that vampirism is a blessing, she is a murder or Assume the souls are ripped out of some other heaven dimension, she is an earthly undertaker for a heavenly realm

Mrs Gordo

Bangel extremist...
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Black Thorn
It would have been smart of Buffy (and all the scoobies) to think about it a little more than she (they) did. Not so much for Spike specifically, but more in general...if vampires can just go out and get a soul if they want one it really changes the way the demon world works. It seems odd that they would just accept that this was some special one time thing and not try and look into the how, why, and what of it.
Also - side note - someone could've given Angel a call and said - hey btdubs if you want a soul without that pesky clause deal just go to this address in Africa...
 
Puppet
Puppet
I think that can be explained by saying that Angelus would have to fight for the soul, but maybe that's just me.
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