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How do you feel about shipper changer?

AngelsCordy

Townie
Joined
Jul 20, 2019
Messages
37
Age
32
As an example, the people who first liked Bangel and then went to Spuffy and Cangel. Or want Woz and then went with Tillow and so on? What is your opinion about this? Are you angry about it, or are you simply do not care?
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
2,801
Age
37
I didn't care one way or another about Bangel until the Angelus arc. That's when I liked it. Not for its romance, in case it needs to be said.

Offhand, I'm neutral about all the ships, at least from a romantic angle. That said, I did somewhat like Toz and then Tillow. My complaints about both are at a meta-level, but it was sweet to see in the story (overlooking a lot of too common tropes).
 

Cangel1987

♥ Cangel ♥ Spuffy ♥
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
240
Age
32
Location
Germany
I ship what I like best and not because someone else could be mad. I used to be a Bangel back in the day as well as a Woz, and with the story development of the series I have adapted - but it does not mean I do not like my old ships anymore. I can personally identify with my own private experiences with Cangel, because of my own relationship in real life. I'm sorry but I do not care what others think.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
7,156
Age
29
I don't think people choose their ship preference, their ship preference chooses them. If that didn't happen then there wouldn't be ship wars because people would be sheep. Also I think ship preferences rarely change, people might be able to get behind various pairings but it'll normally be one ship per character. Occasionally a character might be shipped in multiple ships but there will always be that one ship that stands above all the others. Also you can get fanon ships vs canon ships which leads back to the fact that shipping preferences can't be predicted or chosen, there's a lot of factors involved that make a ship speak to someone.

As you can probably guess, Sprusilla is my favourite ship. I can't stand Spuffy, I hate what it did to Spike's character by turning him into Buffy's lapdog. Sparmony is a ship that I would take over Spuffy but it can never compare to Sprusilla.

I prefer Tillow over Woz but that's because Oz did bugger all on the show. He was just there. The werewolf stuff was just to give him something to do. However, I prefer Woz a lot more than Killow because I really hate Kennedy. Killow is an unshippable ship for me.

Love triangles tend to be melodramatic and often trigger ship wars however a Dangel and Bangel triangle would be a rare exception. Given that Angel is essentially both Angelus and Angel, both ships have merit because you have Darla with Angelus and Buffy with Angel. That "love triangle" is less about "which woman is Angel going to choose?" and more about is Angel going to slip back into darkness with Darla or continue fighting the good fight with Buffy. Both women represent an aspect of Angel's morality so it becomes more about Angel himself rather than cheap drama.

Cangel is a non-starter for me because of the Sunnydale history with Angelus. If Cordy hadn't been in Sunnydale and was a new character to Angel's show, then maybe I could've shipped Angel with early season pre-haircut Cordy, but again factors play their part.
 

Mylie

Scooby
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
2,064
Age
31
No. Ship and let ship.

I do take issue when fans use the fact that they used to ship a couple but have moved on as some sort of proof of their superiority though.

But taste changes and different things speak to us depending on where we are in our lives sometimes. I've been shipping Buffy/Angel for over 20 years now but there are a lot of TV couples or even characters that I used to love but now no longer care for.
 
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
20 years strong! Omg I'm old lol.

Myheadsgonenumb

Potential
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
237
Age
34
Location
Leeds, England
Why would anybody care if someone else changed their mind about which pairings they liked? Surely that would be the very definition of insanity? I can imagine feeling guilt if I suddenly abandoned a ship - but towards the ship, not my fellow shippers. And even that would be mental - but I can still imagine I would, because I can feel guilty about a wide variety of mental things. But exercising brain cells about someone else's changing preferences ... nope, not even I am as crazy as that.

I guess if I loved a particularly unpopular ship and had one particular ally against the rest of the fandom - and that ally changed their mind - I might feel a bit abandoned, left to fight my corner by myself - but the annoyance would be over the loss of an ally and supporter for myself, rather than over what they had changed their mind about. The same would be true for any unpopular viewpoint - not just liking a romantic pairing in fandom.

people grow up and change their minds. They get into other t.v shows, they move away from fandom altogether ... it happens, it's natural and its to be expected. Nobody should be getting angry because a stranger on the internet has changed their mind over what Buffy couple they like, even though they started watching Buffy in their tweens and are now in their 30s.

What I ship depends in where I am in the run of the Buffyverse. I like Willow and Oz and Willow and Tara equally - I'm sad when Oz goes and I'm happy when Tara arrives. If I'm watching early Buffy then i just want Buffy to be happy and that means BAngel. But later on I love Spuffy. If you made me choose I'm more Spuffy than BAngel but I'm also far more critical of their relationship now than I was when the show first aired. I also like Angel with Darla and love Spike with Drusilla. I don't want Spike and Dru to end but when it does I want him to get married to Buffy and live happily ever after.

My absolute OTP is Doyle/ Cordy ... but I really like Xander and Cordelia together and don't like it when I get to the part in s3 when they break up. But then I like Xander with Anya when that starts up. And I like Doyle's ex wife and wish he'd stuck around long enough that we could have got some flashbacks of their marriage.

All these relationships are good and enjoyable and adorable in their place - and when they're happening I just want the happiness to continue forever. But when it changes- what comes next is good too. Sometimes it's even better. Kind of like real life.
 

DayDreamer27

Potential
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
206
I don't think people choose their ship preference, their ship preference chooses them. If that didn't happen then there wouldn't be ship wars because people would be sheep. Also I think ship preferences rarely change, people might be able to get behind various pairings but it'll normally be one ship per character. Occasionally a character might be shipped in multiple ships but there will always be that one ship that stands above all the others. Also you can get fanon ships vs canon ships which leads back to the fact that shipping preferences can't be predicted or chosen, there's a lot of factors involved that make a ship speak to someone.
I agree with this. Like any kind of taste or preference, it's automatic. You either like something or you don't. Sometimes as your views change, different things may speak more to you.

I got into Buffy late. So I am not a 20+ year fan like many. But I liked Bangel and Woz. I thought the relationships were cute, stable, but had their problems. When Buffy got with Riley, I could tolerate it. Riley was a very nice & genuine guy. But I did not like him like I did Angel. So I didn't ship them like I did Bangel. But it was leagues better than Spuffy, a ship I feel ruined & degraded Buffy's character, and my opinion will never change on that because I always hated ships that had to degrade & make one or both parties look pathetic. Also ships that had to sail by shooting down other ships to do so. Of course, I speak as someone who's always on the shot down ship. Maybe i'd feel differently if my ship did the shooting. But that hasn't happened yet. Then again, I still may feel it's artificial and unnecessary. Ya never know when it hasn't happened.

I didn't care for Tillow. Because I liked Oz better. Plus, as a straight woman, I thought he was cuter than any of Willow's girlfriends. lol
 

Dora

Scooby
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
1,031
Age
53
Never like either Buffy Angel or Spuffy( A) I think Angel 240 years and a 15 year old girl ickey I know the PTB asked him to look after Buffy but not get into her pants And (B) Spike is a evil demon that took advantage of Buffy metal state
The rest of the ships are consenting adults , so I may not like things like Riley late season 4/5 but this was Buffy choice , things like Xander having a complete character change in S6 as Giles S6 and 7 is down to Noxon
 

Bluebird

two by two, hands of blue
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
6,250
Black Thorn
I find it hard to imagine why someone would care about another person's opinion of fictional relationship on a tv show. I think it's by far the least interesting part of the shows. Unfortunately people treat it like politics or sports and they get super intense over criticism of their favorite thing. I think that's unhealthy. Plenty criticise what I like and I shrug it off.
 
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
703
Black Thorn
I change my opinions all the time. I came on here disliking both Bangel and Spuffy, I have a bigger appreciation for them now. I wouldn't call myself a shipper but I respect them.
 

vampmogs

Townie
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
97
Age
30
In an ideal world all fans would be "shipper changers" or shippers of multiple relationships.

After all, the writers very much intended for you to enjoy Bangel, then Ruffy, then Spuffy, as keeping viewers engaged and enthusiastic was kind of their job and key to keeping the series on the air. I don't think it was ever intended you'd be a Bangel who hates Ruffy and Spuffy on principle etc. Likewise, I'd imagine most writers would hope that fans are as invested in all characters and ships and that, for instance, they can feel love for both Bangel and Spuffy simultaneously, like in "Chosen".

I'm personally not a shipper. Unless being a Core Four shipper counts? I'm pretty zen about all of Buffy's relationships and find them all interesting and intriguing. It's not say I like them all equally, if I had to pick I could, but I'm not a shipper and I don't get the team mentality.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
7,156
Age
29
I look down upon the lack of imagination of anyone who stick to only one ship.
Do you mean someone who can enjoy other ships but has one ship they like the most (and prefers that ship for one particular character), or someone who doesn't like any other ships at all (even if they don't contain a particular character) except that one ship?

In an ideal world all fans would be "shipper changers" or shippers of multiple relationships.
Similar to the question above, do you mean shipping multiple ships for one character eg Bangel/Briley/Spuffy or shipping ships that don't contain one particular character eg Bangel, Sprusilla, Tillow, Xanya etc?

After all, the writers very much intended for you to enjoy Bangel, then Ruffy, then Spuffy, as keeping viewers engaged and enthusiastic was kind of their job and key to keeping the series on the air.
Intent is meaningless. The writers probably intended people to like Kennedy and look how that turned out. The writers can't tell the audience how to feel. They also probably never intended for it to be questioned whether or not Spike was actually the Doctor or whether Xander actually summoned Sweet or if he was just covering for Dawn, or even whether Joyce's brain tumour was a result of Dawn's creation. "Show, don't tell" is an important part of story writing, yet in the later seasons the writers seemed to rely more on telling he audience something and expecting them to just believe it rather than showing evidence to back it up eg Xander summoning Sweet and Spike being the Doctor. I think @katmobile even posted something that someone wrote that set out why Spike wasn't the Doctor and had backed it up with evidence from the episode.

I don't think it was ever intended you'd be a Bangel who hates Ruffy and Spuffy on principle etc. Likewise, I'd imagine most writers would hope that fans are as invested in all characters and ships and that, for instance, they can feel love for both Bangel and Spuffy simultaneously, like in "Chosen".
When you say say "on principle", I'm assuming you mean hating a ship just because it's not your preferred ship eg hating Spuffy just because it's not Bangel?

Most shippers rarely hate a ship "on principle". They usually find something they dislike about the ship, either one of the characters themselves or perhaps the negative effect it has on a particular character.

I like both Buffy and Spike but strongly dislike Spuffy because of the negative effect it has on Spike's character. Other people like Spuffy because of the effect it had on Spike's character. I like Spike evil, other people like him getting a soul. Not everybody sees things the same way. The writers can hope all they like that fans are going to fawn over whatever ship they throw out, the truth is that isn't going to happen.

Willow's ships are a good example of this. Most fans have a pretty positive attitude towards Woz and Tillow, they may prefer one over the other but generally they view both relationships positively. Killow on the other hand is viewed quite negatively because of Kennedy and only came about because the writers didn't want all of the scoobies ending the series single.

Briley is probably Buffy's least popular ship, but that's because Riley is seen as boring in comparison to Angel and Spike rather than necessarily a reflection on the ship itself. In my opinion there is evidence that shows that Briley is not as wholesome and fluffy as it likes to make out and it would have been interesting if the writers had actually "gone there" (it's one of the reasons I have such an issue with Xander's speech to Buffy at the end of Into the Woods because he is basically telling Buffy that she should want to be in a relationship that, in reality, she should be running away from really fast).

Sometimes catering to a vocal group of fans can be detrimental to a show as it risks alienating a different group of fans. There is never going to be a 100% fan consensus when it comes to ships.

I'm personally not a shipper. Unless being a Core Four shipper counts? I'm pretty zen about all of Buffy's relationships and find them all interesting and intriguing. It's not say I like them all equally, if I had to pick I could, but I'm not a shipper and I don't get the team mentality.
You get different levels of shippers. Some are "do or die" whilst the majority have their preferences and will defend them but generally go with the flow.

There's also the fact that, generally speaking, people like to feel like they belong to something. Shows and Ships provide that as it enables them to connect with others who like the same things they do. It's basic human behaviour and having things in common is how friendships and relationship are formed. You even see it in children.

Ship Wars usually happen when a show inserts a love triangle into proceedings. You get two sets of fans with opposing views wanting their preferred ship to claim victory and that is what writers want because it's a talking point and gets the show free publicity.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
1,092
Age
38
I suppose if someone switches teams, like going from Team Angel to Team Spike, I could see that annoying me, but given how closed most Buffyverse relationships are, I wouldn't see the point. Then again, I don't really watch the show for the relationships.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
2,801
Age
37
For me, ships were something I endured as inevitable than something I got excited about. I don't know why they don't grab my brain the way they do others (and I've thought about it but ultimately baffled by it). I might like or dislike as certain aspect of them, but I'm extremely unlikely to read even a short shipping fic, let alone write one (or say if the ship goes down then I'll go down with it).

I'm just waiting for someone to do their thesis on ship psychology, which I hope helps me understand myself more as well as shippers. But when it comes out (and it will), it wouldn't surprise me if it's actually more on the promotion of their own ship and the derangement of others who prefer rival ships instead of sincere, objective academic work. :p
 

Mylie

Scooby
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
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31
I'm just waiting for someone to do their thesis on ship psychology, which I hope helps me understand myself more as well as shippers. But when it comes out (and it will), it wouldn't surprise me if it's actually more on the promotion of their own ship and the derangement of others who prefer rival ships instead of sincere, objective academic work. :p
Yes, because a shipper would obviously be too stupid to realize that their PhD depends on developing a good methodology and analyzing data objectively... oh and their director would totally let that happen...
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
I was being tongue in cheek, but actually, it could happen. An English major who was once my tutor had the most interesting stories about the professors, publications, and academic process that I'm sure you would not appreciate.

Professor Walsh

Feminist slayerette
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
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Snow-in-May-land
Black Thorn
As an example, the people who first liked Bangel and then went to Spuffy and Cangel. Or want Woz and then went with Tillow and so on? What is your opinion about this? Are you angry about it, or are you simply do not care?
If someone vehemently defends one ship, then turns and equally vehemently attacks that ship to defend their new chosen ship, I would find it strange. To move on from one taste to another in time, on the other hand, is just how people roll.
 

vampmogs

Townie
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
97
Age
30
Similar to the question above, do you mean shipping multiple ships for one character eg Bangel/Briley/Spuffy or shipping ships that don't contain one particular character eg Bangel, Sprusilla, Tillow, Xanya etc?
Both.

Intent is meaningless. The writers probably intended people to like Kennedy and look how that turned out. The writers can't tell the audience how to feel.
... I never said they could. Honestly, I don't get your entire response to me? You don't need to lecture me on the fact that most fans don't love every BtVS ship or character. Being in fandom for close to 20 years now has made that pretty apparent. I was merely stating that obviously a writer hopes for that to be the case.

My point was there's nothing strange about a fan who can love or at least appreciate most of the ships on the show. What I would find incredibly strange is other fans who'd be bothered by that.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
7,156
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29
I never said they could. Honestly, I don't get your entire response to me? You don't need to lecture me on the fact that most fans don't love every BtVS ship or character. Being in fandom for close to 20 years now has made that pretty apparent. I was merely stating that obviously a writer hopes for that to be the case.

My point was there's nothing strange about a fan who can love or at least appreciate most of the ships on the show. What I would find incredibly strange is other fans who'd be bothered by that.
I wasn't lecturing you. I was merely pointing out that a writer's intent is irrelevant because how something is viewed is subjective. Two people can watch the same scene and get two different interpretations, the same is true of ships.

Nobody should be bothered by other people's shipping choices. To each their own.
 

BaskingINBangel

"Peanut butter, preferably crunchy!"
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
242
Age
35
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Nevada
No. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I would think that people's perspectives changing over time, is to be expected to some extent. I know that I've changed my opinions of certain ships over the years, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them ended up changing again down the road.
 
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