• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

How would you change/recreate the show?

Nothing13

Potential
Joined
May 16, 2021
Messages
124
Age
28
Buffy as a tv show was a metaphor for teens and "their journey of life" with its problems from teen years to adulthood. The entire show created the fantasy setting and plot with demons, vampires, etc. as metaphors of school problems and real-life problems that must be overcome in order to complete the "journey of growth"
Buffy and the Scoobies represented symbolically what high school, college, and adulthood were like but with the addition of vampires, demons, and other creatures.

The main point of the show was also to "celebrate" the outcasts and women through the main characters (despite writing problems and problems of some "messages"):
  • Outcasts that became heroes (Giles, Xander, Willow, Dawn, Fred, Gunn, etc..)
  • Outcasts that became badass: William-Spike, Liam-Angelus. After they declined (Chipped Spike and Cursed Angel) becoming outcasts again and in the end, they became heroes
Also, Angel and Spike (the main male characters) were always "shaped" by a woman:
  • Liam and William became Angelus and Spike because of Darla and Drusilla
  • Angel and Spike became heroes with the help of/thanks to Buffy

Personally, I preferred the first 3 seasons despite the lowest budget and being more “teen”. Season 1, despite being campy, too low budget, and similar to B movies, wasn’t so bad in terms of the basic storyline (despite the execution wasn't great).
Instead, seasons 2 and 3 were really good seasons for me
I didn’t like very much seasons 4-5-6-7 in term of plot and storyline despite being more "mature" and created with a bigger budget

For me, conceptually, The Master-Angelus-The Mayor were good villains instead Adam-Glory-The Trio-The First were lame villains

Angelus (only in seasons 2-3 of Buffy) is the only villain I consider seriously since he is the only one that was “demonic” for me.
Also, Angelus and his reversed symbolism of the archangel Gabriel and the annunciation of the virgin (Buffy/Drusilla) was fantastic: Angelus domini nunciavit Mariae (Buffia).
stgla5a.jpg

For me, his "poetical evilness" was great: For a hundred years I offered ugly death to everyone I met, and I did it with a song in my heart.

However, I didn’t like the representation of Angelus in season 4, writers ruined him for me. He was too loud and goofy and overhyped for no reason in the stupid vampire/demon bar. I find him less effective in Angel season 4 than I do in Buffy season 2, he was more annoying than sinister and evil. He was too overacted and he didn't have the "poetical expression" (Valentine's Day-like) of his evilness of season 2 of Buffy
Also, Angelus in flashbacks of Angel's show sometimes was too coward and opportunistic also he was always influenced and guided by Darla that for me she was sometimes too pathetic in her evilness. She was always afraid of being killed, too cowardly and opportunistic, that always run at the minimal danger for herself

Also, Angelus in flashbacks was depicted as was very naive in regard to Darla that trick him many times. They represented Angelus as too much dependent by Darla. As Holtz said: She was always the trick, you know, not you. Darla was the unpredictable one.
This wasn’t a good representation of Angelus for me.


Personally, I would have wanted a more serious and horror show with less comedy and without ridiculous and silly demons, maybe also dark fantasy with horror elements. However, not typical horror, based only on stupid insensate jump scares and insensate plots and characters like many horror movies of these times. A serious Dark fantasy or horror with great storylines and characters' development and introspection also of villains/demons. Demons, vampires shouldn't be represented only to be scary and being defeated but also to represent their viewpoint (not typical villains that must be defeated by good characters)

Without necessarily go too much into horror, something much or less like this in terms of dark fantasy setting:

I am, also, tired of continuous lame villains typical in movies and tv shows.

I would like to see demons and villains whose "evilness" and "destructive intents" are so implacable and for a "vocation" that they also are ready to be destroyed and they don't care about it, in the same but opposite way of saintly behavior, the spirit of sacrifice for goodness and martyrdom.
I don't like villains that are related to "evilness" for opportunistic reasons and convenience (money, fame, glory, power, vengeance, personal reasons, etc)

Movies and tv shows for me need a better class of villains, something in the line of the Joker (a really great villain for me)

Examples of ideas of changes for me:

Season 1
The Master and The Three should have been better developed in more episodes of season 1 instead of some lame monster of the week as the mantis, the hyenas, Sid, Marcie. The Master should have been more demonic and evil and less patriarchal and silly

Moloch, also, should have been better developed as a real demon not that stupid Robot of the internet

Season 2
Spike (in the first half) and Angelus (in the second half) were good villains in that season, the opposition between violence (Spike) and evilness (Angelus)
For me, Evil Spike was at his best in season 2 and also Angelus was at his best in season 2

Season 3
Kakistos was badly represented and died too quickly in only 1 episode. Mr. Trick, also, was underused. In my opinion, writers should have developed more their story with Faith in multiple episodes and give us more information and flashbacks about Kakistos (from Ancient Greece) and Mr. Trick (his origin).
Kakistos and Mr. Trick in the first half and The Mayor and Faith in the second half.


1) James and Elisabeth, and Penn were underused in only 1 episode. They should have been more developed in more episodes.

2) The Judge should have been better developed in more episodes and with flashbacks about his story in medieval times, the same for The Beast. The Judge and The Beast should have also been less dumb and more demonic and aggressive

3) They should have developed the First Evil in a more serious and demonic way as a real Satanic World Treat. It was lame in the show. I can conceive that entity as the “principle of evil”. It was all talk.

4) More scary demons as Gnarl and the Gentlemen (2 very good demons of the show) and less ridiculous demons such as the shark demon in season 6, Gachnar, Machida, Inca Mumy, Bezoar, etc. that were pathetic and ridiculous

5) Eliminate from the show lame villains such as Adam, Glory, the Trio, Jasmine, Evil Cordelia, the circle of the Black Thorn in order to create better storylines with past slayers, ancient vampires, and ancient demons; well described and developed with their own mythology. They, also, could have created a storyline about past slayers turned into vampires with flashbacks about their story

6) Dawn/Connor eliminated from the show and their whinny brat drama

7) Writers could have maintained romance and romantic relationships without falling into a sop opera as the show had fallen in later seasons.

8) Buffy is a tv show about vampires and slayers. How is possible that there are only a few vampires and Slayers well-written and developed (Buffy/Faith and Angel/Spike)?
How is it possible that Angel, a vampire of only 240 years is one of the oldest vampires we have seen in the show?
Writers should have created more storylines with different vampires and slayers from Prehistoric Times, Roman Empire, Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China-Japan-India, Middle Ages, Renaissance, etc. It would have been very interesting instead of many lame and ridiculous villains and demons of the show
There is only a slayer in all the world in every generation. They can not kill all the vampires in all the world but only in a city of a country, of a continent in every generation. In other parts of the world and at different times, vampires are free and they can become old.
In Btvs vampirism started in Prehistoric Times and Sineya was the first slayer in Africa, with the spread of vampirism through the world a single slayer wasn't enough to contain their diffusion.
Statistically speaking should have been many old vampires from Prehistoric Times to the modern days with only a slayer in every generation
The history of Vampires and Slayers dates back to Prehistory with Sineya as the First Slayer and the Shadow Men as Watchers
We know that in Prehistoric times, vampirism started from a pure demon "infecting" a human with his blood, and the First Slayer, Sineya was "created" during these times by the Shadow Men with the heart and spirit/energy of a demon.

Considering the three-age system as the periodization of human's prehistory: Stone Age-Bronze Age-Iron Age
-Stone Age: From 3.4 million years ago roughly to 4000-3000 BC
-Bronze Age: From 3300 BC to 1200 BC
Probably the story of Sineya is set between the Stone Age/Bronze Age (6000-3000 BC theoretical, the start of civilizations?)
From 6000 BC - 3500 BC (theoretical) or even more years ago, vampires started to spread around the world.

Buffyverse is set in a historical timeline that is based on reality from Prehistoric Times to modern times (considering the classical division of history):
1) Prehistory: The first appearance of Homo sapiens in Africa approximately 300 000 years ago to the invention of writing and the beginning of history (with the civilizations)
2) Ancient History: From 3500 B.C. to 450/500 A.D.
3) Middle Ages: From 450/500 A.D. to 1400/1500
4) Modern History: From 1400/1500 to modern years

How is it possible that the only ancient vampires of the show were: The Master (???), Kakistos (Ancient Greece), Prince of Lies (????)?
Also, Prince of Lies and Kakistos were underused badly, killed in only one episode. Wasted potential as characters
It was absurd that the only "decently old" vampires of the show were:
-Dracula (1400s)
-Darla (1609) - Angelus (1753) - James and Elisabeth (1767) - Penn (1786) - Drusilla (1860) - Spike (1880)
All these vampires are very young considering the history of vampires according to the show’s timeline. It doesn't make sense

How is it possible that there weren't famous and strong vampires, for example, from 6000 B.C. to 1500 A.D. (from Prehistoric Times, Roman Empire, Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China-Japan-India, Middle Ages, Renaissance, etc)? 7500 years or more of nothing in terms of vampire history?

Living so many millennia, for who is able to do it, will give a vast amount of knowledge and experience and an emotional detachment about everything. Living through so many places and civilizations through centuries surely gives a different perspective about life and a more open mind in terms of space and time. It would be interesting to see the demon alchemized through vampirization by different kinds of personalities and matured through centuries and millennia

For example:
-A Spartan Soldier, raised since he was a child to be a soldier with hard physical and mental training in order to fight and survive or be killed; a life of wars always ready to die. After he becoming a vampire he becomes a bloodthirsty demon
-A Gladiator of the Roman Empire, that lived a life as a slave, killing people to survive as entertainment and see other people (friends and loved ones) die and tortured almost all his life
-A Viking Warrior, raised in a harsh environment with his own religion and warrior belief
-A fanatical inquisitor of Middle Ages or a Crusader, corrupted and twisted in their belief of "God" through vampirization
- A disciplined samurai that can maintain “his honor” despite becoming a vampire without losing in terms of evilness
For me, these kinds of personalities could have been interesting as demonic vampires. The writers could have developed many storylines in order to create more consistent and logical mythology and timeline about vampires and slayers from Prehistoric Times


How would you prefer to change the show?

Would you have preferred a more horror, serious, mythology, and lore-driven show or the metaphorical, symbolical, and mix of humor/drama of the show?
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
3,838
Age
39
To keep it short, the #1 thing the series needed was a series bible rather than making it up (and changing it) as they went along, and with enough in it that they can better foreshadow a lot of the lore as well as avoid backing themselves into a corner.

Beyond that, I do prefer dark horror...though camp is also fun (so long as it's self-aware and not taking itself too seriously, and it is possible to have tension while being campy and silly).

And I could get very creative with the lore, but I don't feel like going into essay mode right now.
 

TheMaster666

Townie
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Messages
47
Age
40
To keep it short, the #1 thing the series needed was a series bible rather than making it up (and changing it) as they went along, and with enough in it that they can better foreshadow a lot of the lore as well as avoid backing themselves into a corner.

Beyond that, I do prefer dark horror...though camp is also fun (so long as it's self-aware and not taking itself too seriously, and it is possible to have tension while being campy and silly).

And I could get very creative with the lore, but I don't feel like going into essay mode right now.

Did they not have a series bible? I'm pretty sure that's a prerequisite for anything that goes on the air, and it seemed to me like they had a very clear view of where they wanted to go for a particular season.

Compared to something like how Steven Moffat handled Doctor Who, I'd say he eventually got himself into a corner he couldn't really write a way out of, but I never felt that way when watching Buffy. I always felt like every thread that was introduced was addressed and plot arcs were completed in a satisfying manner. Often they'd end in a way I didn't expect or wouldn't think would work out, but I think it's to their credit that Whedon & co. would always push the boundaries of what they could do with the show. They never got too comfortable doing the same thing ad nauseum, yet they made sure to bring the viewer along with the new stuff and didn't ignore or forget about past lore either.

What I would've changed:
At the time I really wanted Angel to stay on after Season 3 rather than get a spinoff and lose Cordelia as well, but ultimately with the evolution of Spike's character, the show grew around the vacancies and managed to get on just fine without him. And of course one can never have enough Oz, so I didn't want him to leave either, but again real life necessitates these changes, and if Oz had stayed forever, we would've never had the Willow/Tara relationship, which was just as powerful, possibly even moreso.

Season 4 had its fair share of excessive campiness, and if there's one season which veered a little too close to formulaic television, it'd be this one. I think it probably had some of the weakest episodes (but also some really great ones too). I think I probably would have changed the way Riley and Buffy were handled. Riley was at his most interesting and relatable when dealing with the questions of self-identity. "Am I really on the right side? Who am I? Am I being controlled?", etc. I think their love would've been a lot more believable and easier to digest if it wasn't so obvious early on they would be paired up that it comes across as a little forced and insincere. I would have had them take their time with it a bit and let that unfold a bit more naturally, so that the viewer actually cares about Riley first, and then Buffy gradually falls for him. In short, he was never going to compete as an Angel-replacement, and it was a mistake to have tried. However, Riley still had a lot going for him and is something of an underrated character in hindsight. It might have also been cool to explore the Initiative as a metaphor for the government and skepticism of power/authority, but then again, the X-Files vibes were already quite strong this season, and they probably wanted to maintain Buffy's identity.

I really liked the introduction of Dawn as a new sister who had always been there, Season 5 was pretty perfect, though very emotional and dark. Wouldn't change a thing.

Season 6 was also very good, but hyping up the wedding only for Xander to bail because he was tricked, and then doesn't go ahead anyway knowing full well he was tricked? Was definitely a bit anti-climactic, and the whole "I'm now a vengeance demon again" didn't really stick in Season 7 anyway, so what was the point? Still fairly minor.

I'm ultimately happy with the way the show turned out, in spite of these small issues, but my one exception is the series finale. That's one thing that ended in a pretty stupid way that felt like both bad writing and an unsatisfying resolution. Season 7 was incredible otherwise, but this one episode was something of a letdown. Also eye-patch Xander; I wouldn't have done that. The only reason the writers thought it was a good idea is because they knew the character would be gone soon anyway. Sure, it's a nice visual statement "All fun and games..." but sad to think of the character ending up as a cyclops.
Post automatically merged:

Buffy as a tv show was a metaphor for teens and "their journey of life" with its problems from teen years to adulthood. The entire show created the fantasy setting and plot with demons, vampires, etc. as metaphors of school problems and real-life problems that must be overcome in order to complete the "journey of growth"
Buffy and the Scoobies represented symbolically what high school, college, and adulthood were like but with the addition of vampires, demons, and other creatures.

The main point of the show was also to "celebrate" the outcasts and women through the main characters (despite writing problems and problems of some "messages"):
  • Outcasts that became heroes (Giles, Xander, Willow, Dawn, Fred, Gunn, etc..)
  • Outcasts that became badass: William-Spike, Liam-Angelus. After they declined (Chipped Spike and Cursed Angel) becoming outcasts again and in the end, they became heroes
Also, Angel and Spike (the main male characters) were always "shaped" by a woman:
  • Liam and William became Angelus and Spike because of Darla and Drusilla
  • Angel and Spike became heroes with the help of/thanks to Buffy

Personally, I preferred the first 3 seasons despite the lowest budget and being more “teen”. Season 1, despite being campy, too low budget, and similar to B movies, wasn’t so bad in terms of the basic storyline (despite the execution wasn't great).
Instead, seasons 2 and 3 were really good seasons for me
I didn’t like very much seasons 4-5-6-7 in term of plot and storyline despite being more "mature" and created with a bigger budget

For me, conceptually, The Master-Angelus-The Mayor were good villains instead Adam-Glory-The Trio-The First were lame villains

Angelus (only in seasons 2-3 of Buffy) is the only villain I consider seriously since he is the only one that was “demonic” for me.
Also, Angelus and his reversed symbolism of the archangel Gabriel and the annunciation of the virgin (Buffy/Drusilla) was fantastic: Angelus domini nunciavit Mariae (Buffia).
stgla5a.jpg

For me, his "poetical evilness" was great: For a hundred years I offered ugly death to everyone I met, and I did it with a song in my heart.

However, I didn’t like the representation of Angelus in season 4, writers ruined him for me. He was too loud and goofy and overhyped for no reason in the stupid vampire/demon bar. I find him less effective in Angel season 4 than I do in Buffy season 2, he was more annoying than sinister and evil. He was too overacted and he didn't have the "poetical expression" (Valentine's Day-like) of his evilness of season 2 of Buffy
Also, Angelus in flashbacks of Angel's show sometimes was too coward and opportunistic also he was always influenced and guided by Darla that for me she was sometimes too pathetic in her evilness. She was always afraid of being killed, too cowardly and opportunistic, that always run at the minimal danger for herself

Also, Angelus in flashbacks was depicted as was very naive in regard to Darla that trick him many times. They represented Angelus as too much dependent by Darla. As Holtz said: She was always the trick, you know, not you. Darla was the unpredictable one.
This wasn’t a good representation of Angelus for me.


Personally, I would have wanted a more serious and horror show with less comedy and without ridiculous and silly demons, maybe also dark fantasy with horror elements. However, not typical horror, based only on stupid insensate jump scares and insensate plots and characters like many horror movies of these times. A serious Dark fantasy or horror with great storylines and characters' development and introspection also of villains/demons. Demons, vampires shouldn't be represented only to be scary and being defeated but also to represent their viewpoint (not typical villains that must be defeated by good characters)

Without necessarily go too much into horror, something much or less like this in terms of dark fantasy setting:

I am, also, tired of continuous lame villains typical in movies and tv shows.

I would like to see demons and villains whose "evilness" and "destructive intents" are so implacable and for a "vocation" that they also are ready to be destroyed and they don't care about it, in the same but opposite way of saintly behavior, the spirit of sacrifice for goodness and martyrdom.
I don't like villains that are related to "evilness" for opportunistic reasons and convenience (money, fame, glory, power, vengeance, personal reasons, etc)

Movies and tv shows for me need a better class of villains, something in the line of the Joker (a really great villain for me)

Examples of ideas of changes for me:

Season 1
The Master and The Three should have been better developed in more episodes of season 1 instead of some lame monster of the week as the mantis, the hyenas, Sid, Marcie. The Master should have been more demonic and evil and less patriarchal and silly

Moloch, also, should have been better developed as a real demon not that stupid Robot of the internet

Season 2
Spike (in the first half) and Angelus (in the second half) were good villains in that season, the opposition between violence (Spike) and evilness (Angelus)
For me, Evil Spike was at his best in season 2 and also Angelus was at his best in season 2

Season 3
Kakistos was badly represented and died too quickly in only 1 episode. Mr. Trick, also, was underused. In my opinion, writers should have developed more their story with Faith in multiple episodes and give us more information and flashbacks about Kakistos (from Ancient Greece) and Mr. Trick (his origin).
Kakistos and Mr. Trick in the first half and The Mayor and Faith in the second half.


1) James and Elisabeth, and Penn were underused in only 1 episode. They should have been more developed in more episodes.

2) The Judge should have been better developed in more episodes and with flashbacks about his story in medieval times, the same for The Beast. The Judge and The Beast should have also been less dumb and more demonic and aggressive

3) They should have developed the First Evil in a more serious and demonic way as a real Satanic World Treat. It was lame in the show. I can conceive that entity as the “principle of evil”. It was all talk.

4) More scary demons as Gnarl and the Gentlemen (2 very good demons of the show) and less ridiculous demons such as the shark demon in season 6, Gachnar, Machida, Inca Mumy, Bezoar, etc. that were pathetic and ridiculous

5) Eliminate from the show lame villains such as Adam, Glory, the Trio, Jasmine, Evil Cordelia, the circle of the Black Thorn in order to create better storylines with past slayers, ancient vampires, and ancient demons; well described and developed with their own mythology. They, also, could have created a storyline about past slayers turned into vampires with flashbacks about their story

6) Dawn/Connor eliminated from the show and their whinny brat drama

7) Writers could have maintained romance and romantic relationships without falling into a sop opera as the show had fallen in later seasons.

8) Buffy is a tv show about vampires and slayers. How is possible that there are only a few vampires and Slayers well-written and developed (Buffy/Faith and Angel/Spike)?
How is it possible that Angel, a vampire of only 240 years is one of the oldest vampires we have seen in the show?
Writers should have created more storylines with different vampires and slayers from Prehistoric Times, Roman Empire, Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China-Japan-India, Middle Ages, Renaissance, etc. It would have been very interesting instead of many lame and ridiculous villains and demons of the show
There is only a slayer in all the world in every generation. They can not kill all the vampires in all the world but only in a city of a country, of a continent in every generation. In other parts of the world and at different times, vampires are free and they can become old.
In Btvs vampirism started in Prehistoric Times and Sineya was the first slayer in Africa, with the spread of vampirism through the world a single slayer wasn't enough to contain their diffusion.
Statistically speaking should have been many old vampires from Prehistoric Times to the modern days with only a slayer in every generation
The history of Vampires and Slayers dates back to Prehistory with Sineya as the First Slayer and the Shadow Men as Watchers
We know that in Prehistoric times, vampirism started from a pure demon "infecting" a human with his blood, and the First Slayer, Sineya was "created" during these times by the Shadow Men with the heart and spirit/energy of a demon.

Considering the three-age system as the periodization of human's prehistory: Stone Age-Bronze Age-Iron Age
-Stone Age: From 3.4 million years ago roughly to 4000-3000 BC
-Bronze Age: From 3300 BC to 1200 BC
Probably the story of Sineya is set between the Stone Age/Bronze Age (6000-3000 BC theoretical, the start of civilizations?)
From 6000 BC - 3500 BC (theoretical) or even more years ago, vampires started to spread around the world.

Buffyverse is set in a historical timeline that is based on reality from Prehistoric Times to modern times (considering the classical division of history):
1) Prehistory: The first appearance of Homo sapiens in Africa approximately 300 000 years ago to the invention of writing and the beginning of history (with the civilizations)
2) Ancient History: From 3500 B.C. to 450/500 A.D.
3) Middle Ages: From 450/500 A.D. to 1400/1500
4) Modern History: From 1400/1500 to modern years

How is it possible that the only ancient vampires of the show were: The Master (???), Kakistos (Ancient Greece), Prince of Lies (????)?
Also, Prince of Lies and Kakistos were underused badly, killed in only one episode. Wasted potential as characters
It was absurd that the only "decently old" vampires of the show were:
-Dracula (1400s)
-Darla (1609) - Angelus (1753) - James and Elisabeth (1767) - Penn (1786) - Drusilla (1860) - Spike (1880)
All these vampires are very young considering the history of vampires according to the show’s timeline. It doesn't make sense

How is it possible that there weren't famous and strong vampires, for example, from 6000 B.C. to 1500 A.D. (from Prehistoric Times, Roman Empire, Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, Ancient China-Japan-India, Middle Ages, Renaissance, etc)? 7500 years or more of nothing in terms of vampire history?

Living so many millennia, for who is able to do it, will give a vast amount of knowledge and experience and an emotional detachment about everything. Living through so many places and civilizations through centuries surely gives a different perspective about life and a more open mind in terms of space and time. It would be interesting to see the demon alchemized through vampirization by different kinds of personalities and matured through centuries and millennia

For example:
-A Spartan Soldier, raised since he was a child to be a soldier with hard physical and mental training in order to fight and survive or be killed; a life of wars always ready to die. After he becoming a vampire he becomes a bloodthirsty demon
-A Gladiator of the Roman Empire, that lived a life as a slave, killing people to survive as entertainment and see other people (friends and loved ones) die and tortured almost all his life
-A Viking Warrior, raised in a harsh environment with his own religion and warrior belief
-A fanatical inquisitor of Middle Ages or a Crusader, corrupted and twisted in their belief of "God" through vampirization
- A disciplined samurai that can maintain “his honor” despite becoming a vampire without losing in terms of evilness
For me, these kinds of personalities could have been interesting as demonic vampires. The writers could have developed many storylines in order to create more consistent and logical mythology and timeline about vampires and slayers from Prehistoric Times


How would you prefer to change the show?

Would you have preferred a more horror, serious, mythology, and lore-driven show or the metaphorical, symbolical, and mix of humor/drama of the show?

I definitely enjoy horror where the monsters are the scary things, and a show that takes its mythos seriously, but I think that at some level that would defeat the point of the series. The whole idea behind Buffy was, "How cool would it be if we take the cliche horror movie scene where a blonde teen is alone with a date and he comforts her only to get mauled by some horrible monster, and we turn that on its head so that the blonde walks away like a badass, and the monster is left terrified or dead?" It's really a cheeky subversion of the typical genre tropes, and that sort of tongue-in-cheek attitude works very well with teenage characters, youth, irreverence, humor, and almost necessitates a fair degree of self-awareness. So I would actually say that if the show didn't have a healthy dose of campiness, it probably wouldn't work as well. That's one of the reasons I love Buffy but Angel has yet to pique my interest. I feel Angel takes its ridiculous lore far too seriously and lacks the young teenage irreverence/campy humor that the kids on Buffy have. Of course, once the kids grow up, the show naturally takes a slightly different turn but that humor is integral to the winning formula imo.
 
Last edited:

Stake fodder

Soulless
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
782
Location
Caught on a root
Personally, I would have wanted a more serious and horror show with less comedy and without ridiculous and silly demons, maybe also dark fantasy with horror elements.
Some of the elements you suggest would definitely make for an interesting show. Having vampires from the ancient Egyptian era, Roman era, and so forth is something done in Anne Rice's "Vampire Chronicles" (soon to be a TV show), which gave that series a much richer historical feeling.

However, I agree with @TheMaster666 that what distinguishes BtVS, and to a lesser extent, AtS, is its witty, upbeat quality. It is meant to focus on the Slayer and her group of good guys, not the vampires they are fighting. I did always think it was an oddity that there was one Slayer, and she stayed in one place for the whole series. It might be a good idea to have the Slayer move around, "cleaning out" various cities of vampires. But of course, that couldn't be well-combined with the high-school/college theme.

I would like to see demons and villains whose "evilness" and "destructive intents" are so implacable and for a "vocation" that they also are ready to be destroyed and they don't care about it, in the same but opposite way of saintly behavior, the spirit of sacrifice for goodness and martyrdom.
I don't like villains that are related to "evilness" for opportunistic reasons and convenience (money, fame, glory, power, vengeance, personal reasons, etc)
I'm the opposite: I tend to think a villain who is being evil just for the sake of being evil to be rather senseless. There has to be something in it for them, or why do it? For instance, while I liked the Acathla/Angelus arc, it can't be examined too closely, because it makes no sense that Angelus would want to destroy the world (as Spike essentially says).
 

FullOnLehaneFan

Five by Five
Joined
Aug 20, 2021
Messages
26
Age
18
I don't have a mini-essay on the matter, but I always wished that Eliza Dushku (the actress who played Faith) would have taken up the offer on the "Faith the Vampire Slayer" spin off TV series. She turned it down to star in Tru Calling, which is all well and okay, but I wish we could have gotten deeper insight on Faith's own life, without Buffy. It would also have been a good platform for some of the B grade characters in the other two series' to get more fleshed out in.

Additionally, the "everyone's a slayer!" aspect of season 7 was kind of a letdown. I would have preferred it if the others remained potentials. I can't seem to explain it well, but... ending the series with so many slayers kind of ruined the whole point of the show for me. There's only supposed to be one slayer. This is frequently a plot point that they draw on, that actively influences Buffy's psyche. I can get on board with the 'temporary death' loophole, but a whole hoard of slayers? No dice.

AND, why the HECK was Dawn not a potential!? That would have been PERFECT for Dawn, not to mention would actually fit well into the plot. If those monks sent Dawn to Buffy to keep her safe, it would make sense that they would have at least had a backup plan. Making Dawn a potential could mean that she would have been her OWN protection. Plus, where better to train than at the hands of the current slayer?

Ok, maybe I do have a mini-essay, because I also wish they had utilized the 'Ferula Gemina' a bit better. Appearing only in "The Replacement", the third episode of season 5, this magical rod is used to split Xander into two halves - one with his aggressive qualities, and one with his passive qualities. It was planned to be used on Buffy to separate her demonic half with her human half, but the baddie of the week 'missed' and hit Xander instead. I've always thought, if they had kept Xander like that, It would have made his character so much more interesting to watch. After all, he still doesn't have magic powers. He's still Xander. But it would give him depth, solve his main problem of being lonely (which would raise his self-esteem by levels), and overall just make a fun dynamic to work with.
 

TheMaster666

Townie
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Messages
47
Age
40
I don't have a mini-essay on the matter, but I always wished that Eliza Dushku (the actress who played Faith) would have taken up the offer on the "Faith the Vampire Slayer" spin off TV series. She turned it down to star in Tru Calling, which is all well and okay, but I wish we could have gotten deeper insight on Faith's own life, without Buffy. It would also have been a good platform for some of the B grade characters in the other two series' to get more fleshed out in.

Additionally, the "everyone's a slayer!" aspect of season 7 was kind of a letdown. I would have preferred it if the others remained potentials. I can't seem to explain it well, but... ending the series with so many slayers kind of ruined the whole point of the show for me. There's only supposed to be one slayer. This is frequently a plot point that they draw on, that actively influences Buffy's psyche. I can get on board with the 'temporary death' loophole, but a whole hoard of slayers? No dice.

AND, why the HECK was Dawn not a potential!? That would have been PERFECT for Dawn, not to mention would actually fit well into the plot. If those monks sent Dawn to Buffy to keep her safe, it would make sense that they would have at least had a backup plan. Making Dawn a potential could mean that she would have been her OWN protection. Plus, where better to train than at the hands of the current slayer?

Ok, maybe I do have a mini-essay, because I also wish they had utilized the 'Ferula Gemina' a bit better. Appearing only in "The Replacement", the third episode of season 5, this magical rod is used to split Xander into two halves - one with his aggressive qualities, and one with his passive qualities. It was planned to be used on Buffy to separate her demonic half with her human half, but the baddie of the week 'missed' and hit Xander instead. I've always thought, if they had kept Xander like that, It would have made his character so much more interesting to watch. After all, he still doesn't have magic powers. He's still Xander. But it would give him depth, solve his main problem of being lonely (which would raise his self-esteem by levels), and overall just make a fun dynamic to work with.
I felt the same way about the "Everyone's a slayer" ending, there should only be one (even though that doesn't really make sense for one person to fight a world of monsters, but that's the point of the show!)
 

Faded90

Scooby
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
894
Age
63
I don't have a mini-essay on the matter, but I always wished that Eliza Dushku (the actress who played Faith) would have taken up the offer on the "Faith the Vampire Slayer" spin off TV series. She turned it down to star in Tru Calling, which is all well and okay, but I wish we could have gotten deeper insight on Faith's own life, without Buffy. It would also have been a good platform for some of the B grade characters in the other two series' to get more fleshed out in.

Additionally, the "everyone's a slayer!" aspect of season 7 was kind of a letdown. I would have preferred it if the others remained potentials. I can't seem to explain it well, but... ending the series with so many slayers kind of ruined the whole point of the show for me. There's only supposed to be one slayer. This is frequently a plot point that they draw on, that actively influences Buffy's psyche. I can get on board with the 'temporary death' loophole, but a whole hoard of slayers? No dice.

AND, why the HECK was Dawn not a potential!? That would have been PERFECT for Dawn, not to mention would actually fit well into the plot. If those monks sent Dawn to Buffy to keep her safe, it would make sense that they would have at least had a backup plan. Making Dawn a potential could mean that she would have been her OWN protection. Plus, where better to train than at the hands of the current slayer?

Ok, maybe I do have a mini-essay, because I also wish they had utilized the 'Ferula Gemina' a bit better. Appearing only in "The Replacement", the third episode of season 5, this magical rod is used to split Xander into two halves - one with his aggressive qualities, and one with his passive qualities. It was planned to be used on Buffy to separate her demonic half with her human half, but the baddie of the week 'missed' and hit Xander instead. I've always thought, if they had kept Xander like that, It would have made his character so much more interesting to watch. After all, he still doesn't have magic powers. He's still Xander. But it would give him depth, solve his main problem of being lonely (which would raise his self-esteem by levels), and overall just make a fun dynamic to work with.
I like the multiple slayers when it’s an ending and I don’t have to watch the aftermath of it but I wouldn’t want to see a continuation of it. I’ve read the comics and I never felt like they fully knew what to do with the whole slayer world widening. I liked Kendra and particularly Faith but a whole world of the potentials? Eek! I have my own headcanon of what happened post Chosen but I’m glad the slayer spell was at the very end.

It didn’t helped that nearly all of the potentials were awful 😂 like we have Buffy, Kendra and Faith who were all cool chicks and fascinating in their own ways and then these ingrates turn up
 

Nothing13

Potential
Joined
May 16, 2021
Messages
124
Age
28
I definitely enjoy horror where the monsters are the scary things, and a show that takes its mythos seriously, but I think that at some level that would defeat the point of the series. The whole idea behind Buffy was, "How cool would it be if we take the cliche horror movie scene where a blonde teen is alone with a date and he comforts her only to get mauled by some horrible monster, and we turn that on its head so that the blonde walks away like a badass, and the monster is left terrified or dead?" It's really a cheeky subversion of the typical genre tropes, and that sort of tongue-in-cheek attitude works very well with teenage characters, youth, irreverence, humor, and almost necessitates a fair degree of self-awareness. So I would actually say that if the show didn't have a healthy dose of campiness, it probably wouldn't work as well. That's one of the reasons I love Buffy but Angel has yet to pique my interest. I feel Angel takes its ridiculous lore far too seriously and lacks the young teenage irreverence/campy humor that the kids on Buffy have. Of course, once the kids grow up, the show naturally takes a slightly different turn but that humor is integral to the winning formula imo.
I agree that the humor in Buffy was integral to the winning formula of the show.
I also agree that the idea behind the show was, "How cool would it be if we take the cliche horror movie scene where a blonde teen is alone with a date and he comforts her only to get mauled by some horrible monster, and we turn that on its head so that the blonde walks away like a badass, and the monster is left terrified or dead?"
However, I don't find it cool but ridiculous sometimes, it is okay for a teen show like Buffy, related to a younger audience. Since I liked the basic mythology of Slayers, vampires, demons, etc from ancient times to modern times. I would have liked to see a more horror or dark fantasy serious tv show for an older audience.
It is not necessary to follow the cliche horror movies that are also annoying sometimes in the long run.

Yes, I would have changed completely the point of the series, maintaining the basic objective of a female main character as a warrior heroine and powerful female figure without all the "journey of life" metaphor, too many soap opera relationships, vampires/demons as metaphors of real-life problems and the entire "outcasts/nerds became heroes" that I find it "irrealistic" and too much of a "teen" point of view
I think that thinking about it in a creative way it is possible to create and translate the idea of Buffy as a slayer in a good Dark Fantasy/Horror tv show with these premises of mythology/lore (Slayers, Demons, and Vampire)
But of course, that couldn't be well-combined with the high-school/college theme.
I agree, this is the difficult part.
I'm the opposite: I tend to think a villain who is being evil just for the sake of being evil to be rather senseless. There has to be something in it for them, or why do it? For instance, while I liked the Acathla/Angelus arc, it can't be examined too closely, because it makes no sense that Angelus would want to destroy the world (as Spike essentially says).
Why saints and martyrs are/were (also historically speaking) ready to do everything and also sacrifice themselves for "Goodness" or "God" and heroes save the world? The same for "Evilness" in reverse. The name Angelus is related to religion also for this reason as a "reversed angel" (the biblical beings).
These people (saints and heroes) are considered "better" because they are more "pure" in the same way (in a reversed way) Angelus was better than other vampires/demons because he was "pure". He was "clean" according to the Judge
Angel: I couldn't take my eyes off them. I was only in it for the evil. It was everything to me.
The same way the Joker talked about opportunism and convenience of society. The Joker always valued Batman because he valued his "heroic ideals" compared to the corrupt society and other people based on opportunism and convenience

1) Angelus didn't wanted exactly "destroy the world", he wanted to suck the world in the Hell-Mouth of Achatla in order to make all beings suffer for eternity in Hell because he really believed in "evilness".
2) Spike, instead was the one that wanted to destroy the world with the Judge, he (with Drusilla) recomposed the Judge in order to destroy the world in Innocence.
Spike: (rolls his eyes) Yeah. (turns and wheels over to him) It's interesting to me that 'preparing' looks a great bit like sitting on your ass. (facing him) When do we destroy the world already?
After he changed ideas because of Drusilla and because writers changed his character in order to make him more sympathetic to viewers and to make him ally with Buffy for plot's reasons

Also, Spike (with a soul) was always more interested in himself than in "heroism" for ideals (he wanted Buffy but he also believed in her "goodness"); instead, Angel really believed in "heroism and redemption" like Angelus really believed in his "evilness".
-Like Angelus was in "evilness", Angel (Souled) is in heroism, in both cases more based on ideals
-Like Spike was in "evilness", Spike (Souled) was in heroism, in both cases more egoistic for himself, but also for the person he loved. He also behaved in relation to please Drusilla (when he was "evil") and Buffy (when he was "good")
The soul didn't change what they really were

However also Angelus wasn't so "pure" in his evilness (like Angel wasn't in "heroism and goodness") particularly in Angel's tv show (flashbacks): his "daddy issues", his naiveness, and dependence, sort of "emotional connection" from Darla, he was always afraid of Slayers because he wasn't emotionally ready to die.
1) Also, Angel said:
Angel: "Oh, yeah. Yeah. I saw their production of Giselle in eighteen-ninety. I cried like a baby. And I was evil!"
The Judge should have burned him in this case because he wasn't "evil enough".
2) Angelus was the one that wanted to die with Darla, she was the one that betrayed and tricked him:
Angelus: "Even death with the right companion..." As he turns back towards Darla she hits him across the face with a 2x4, knocking him down.

Obviously, no villain is "purely evil" because it is also difficult to conceive what "purely evil" really means philosophically speaking and in terms of the behavior of a being.
However, some "implacable villains" not for opportunistic became iconic (more than other villains)
-The Joker of the Dark Knight is an iconic villain because he represents chaos, anarchy, and destruction purely.
-Hannibal Lecter is an iconic villain and he is a sort of "complete psychopath" (not completely true, but his psychopathy is out of the norm also compared to other psychopaths)
I always liked the depiction of "Satan/Angra Minyu/Dahaka" in Xena/Hercules: Dahak (despite these shows weren't horror or dark fantasy). He was a great villain, he was really a twisted corrupting demonic being
However, everyone is free to have their preferences in terms of characters (both main characters and villains)
 
Last edited:

WillowsFaith

Potential
Joined
May 21, 2021
Messages
123
Age
28
Only major thing I would change is season 7’s entire plot. By making season 7 similar to S1 with the scooby dynamic and taking things back to the basics. More focus on the main characters that made the series so popular and loved. Dedicating an episode to every major character.
 

Kratos

Scooby
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
760
Location
Republic of Ireland
I’ll do the following:

- Take out the Willow/Xander stuff in S3.
- Have Ethan Rayne not be captured and Riley not be so tied to the Initiative in S4.
- Take out the Guardians and give the Potentials less screen time in S7.
 

Bop

Scooby
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
2,814
Age
21
Sineya
I like the multiple slayers when it’s an ending and I don’t have to watch the aftermath of it but I wouldn’t want to see a continuation of it. I’ve read the comics and I never felt like they fully knew what to do with the whole slayer world widening. I liked Kendra and particularly Faith but a whole world of the potentials? Eek! I have my own headcanon of what happened post Chosen but I’m glad the slayer spell was at the very end.

It didn’t helped that nearly all of the potentials were awful 😂 like we have Buffy, Kendra and Faith who were all cool chicks and fascinating in their own ways and then these ingrates turn up

Yeah I don't see what narrative role having all those slayers around would achieve and how it would relate to Buffy. The only thing I could see is Buffy becoming more of a leader/mentor but I don't think that is enough to justify all those slayers.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Bleat at me no longer, we are done.
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
9,485
Location
Vahla Ha'nesh
Black Thorn
1. I would NEVER have had Cordy and Connor get together.

2. I would've kept Lilah in S5 as an ally of Team Angel. Dead or not, she would've been SO much better than Eve!

3. I would have a Harmony redemption arc, with Angel guiding her.

4. Illyria and Spike becoming a couple!

5. Lorne's mom and Numfar end up in LA (via a portal), right outside a club on Hollywood Blvd. After a brief adjustment, they end up drinking & dancing with Kim Kardashian. Then eat her because she looked delicious. Angel and Lorne find her after numerous reports of "horrifying creatures" roaming around Hollywood. Numfar does the dançe of joy!! Lorne is thrilled, actually. A family reunion càn be SO healing.
 

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
9,248
Age
66
Location
Toodyay
Black Thorn
As far as Anyanka Bunny Slayer wrote:
1/ Yes, I agree
2/ I agree with that as well.
3/ I always liked Harmony, but I do like unicorns so, I agree
4/ Illyria and Spike yep, fun, fun, fun.
5/ Sort of yeah
Do you realize the enormity of that peoples? That I agree with Anyanka Bunny Slayer - to Quote Giles - The earth is definitely doomed!

Personally, my thoughts are how about they involve Angels? But then I'm only being biased.
 

BuffyNvrForgets

Slayerette
Joined
Aug 10, 2021
Messages
151
What would I change? I would fix all the terrible character stuff from season (mostly) 5 onwards.

the greatest thing about this show to me, is the characters. It showed us that outcasts can be heroes. It showed us that the thing that makes us strongest is our loyalty and morality. But by the end, the characters act superbly selfishly (especially towards Buffy) and when called out on it, they present why their behavior was just because they feel slighted too.

Also, this is a show that is supposed to (and does, for the most part) convey the power that women have and can have, and the independence and strength they posses, pairs the main character up with some of the worst guys for her, and makes her weep for them. She’s blamed for most failed relationships (aside from Angel. That relationship was, to me, less messed up than the others. Complicated? Sure. But healthier none the less.).

So how do I fix it?

In season 4, yes, the characters drift apart a little bit. It’s natural. But by the end of the season, they realize they are stronger together, and they reunite. But unlike in the show, they actually stay united. In the actual show, they “reunite” but then, they keep drifting.

Season 5 rolls around, and plays out somewhat the same. Except,

1: Glory is more interesting. She has a reason for wanting the key that is actually personal and makes sense. She actually does things other than hysterically ranting around her apartment.

2: When Riley leaves, it isn’t painted as Buffy’s fault. It’s not, and she knows it. Perhaps she admits some blame, but she’s at peace and let’s him go, knowing it won’t ever work. Is she sad about it? Yes. Does she cry? Yeah, sure, but she doesn’t chase after that helicopter.

Here we are at season 6.
Man, are we gonna redo this one.

Buffy comes back shaken, and deeply traumatized, like before.
sure, around Once More With Feeling Buffy reveals she is it happy to be back and all that jazz. But her friends actually own up to that, and express guilt beyond “oh, geez I didn’t know. Whoops”. They actually ask her forgiveness. She grants it, and says she’ll try and deal, but she doesn’t know what that means.

She has the relationship with Spike, but once she confides in Tara (and only Tara, possibly because of the guilt of Spike or not wanting her friends to feel guilty about her condition upon returning), she’s very clear she doesn’t like/want it. With Tara’s support, she continues to say no, clearly and firmly. None of that “maybe” nonsense where she acts as if they are truly a thing. (I say only Tara because that bond really solidified Tara as a character outside of Willow, and I feel it was really important for her.)

Also, Willow has flirted with “overdoing it” but none of that crazy drug comparison. It’s way more subtle than her “going to a dealer and getting high”. No, she’s just overusing it and it’s clearly a problem. A BAD problem.

At Xander and Anya’s wedding, Xander goes off, and it seems he’s abandoned her, but after a talk from his “best man” (Willow) about not loosing the people you care about, he shows up, asks Anya to marry him again, and she of course, says yes. But no honeymoon, because troubles afoot.

seeing red happens, and Spike is justly horrified with himself and goes off in search of redemption. Buffy doesn’t brush off this terrible thing that’s happened to her, and instead of trying to leave Dawn with him (though he’s gone) she forbids her too. Dawn is unsure why, and resists, but Buffy insists and Dawn can tell it’s something serious. (Instead of Buffy allowing/encouraging her sister whom she loves to be cared for by the man who just attacked her)

Later on, Warren comes and shots are fired. Buffy is hit, and taken to the hospital, (as was the case before) and Tara is also hit, but only severely injured (because I think it’s stupid to kill of a character you are just starting to build up for shock factor. No. I never liked that they killed her just for Dark Willow, the plot that lasted what? 2 episodes?).

Thinking her dead, Willow goes and seeks revenge on Warren, and it plays out as before. She does not go to save Buffy, instead she goes straight to kill Warren.

Dawn finds Tara and calls 911, and she is also taken to the hospital. Fairly soon, both her and Buffy are stable, but out of commission.

So, Xander and Dawn goto help Willow. Buffy soon goes after them, and meets up with Dawn who is in the graveyard. They get trapped the same way, or something. Xander alone goes after Willow. After all, he’s the only one that can get through to her. The rest of the season goes as was, St. Francis song/symbolism and all, though Tara survives, albeit with some lengthy recovery, perhaps.

season 7 starts as was, bit Buffy is training Dawn, and the potentials are never a thing. (How do you determine someone is a potential slayer anyways???)

Spike can come back, but Buffy doesn’t have 1 flashback and then forgive him. She grows to forgive him and encourages him in his path to redemption. There is absolutely no romance (She never loved him romantically, canonically.)

In the finale, it plays out similar, minus ALL the potential stuff, including everyone turning on Buffy.

instead, it’s like the S3 finale, but BIGGER. All of team Angel. Everyone they’ve helped who can fight comes to help seal the hellmouth and defeat the first. Spike sacrifices himself, thus completing his journey of redemption. She loves him as a person, not romantically.

Afterwards, it’s implied she begins to train anyone who wants to to be slayers (anyone who can have the power, will have the power. Not just the girls randomly chose to have he power)
But it’s also open to what she’ll do. Will she continue slaying? Will she hand it off to the new generation?


That’s quite a lot though, so perhaps I’d just remove the potentials and rewrite season 7 a bit. 😂
 

Mott1

Townie
Joined
Aug 8, 2021
Messages
21
Age
47
I think the idea of rebooting Buffy or Angel, particularly the former, is problematic, but if I got to rewrite them I suppose I'd do this...

Buffy:

* Change the Dark Willow stuff to ensure she wasn't the Big Bad for s6. I never quite felt the same about her since then, it seemed she was being tortured a bit too sadistically - first by Gnarl and then by being given a pushy, highly unlikable (and unlikely) girlfriend who took advantage of her weakened state
* Have less Potentials, having just one of them falling victim to the First would have been okay. There were too many to form a chemistry with the leads or be anything other than one-dimensional in abrasive or wimpy ways (other than Amanda). I suppose they could have 'drip fed' them in over several episodes, but it's difficult to know what would have worked
* Dawn - get her more involved with the team rather than mollycoddled then sulking so often. Maybe if she'd done it once at the start of s6 but then realised exactly what Buffy had sacrificed and the risks the others took to keep her safe she'd have been more popular.

Angel:

* The Holtz storyline was interesting but felt a bit too strung-out, meaning we got it intersposed with all the lovey-dovey Daddy Angel stuff. I think it's a shame as it obscured the excellent Wesley character arc
* Season 4 - all over the place. Angelus might as well just have come back for Soulless, the subsequent episodes achieved nothing. The Jasmine stuff might have then come in a bit more coherently
 

burrunjor

Scooby
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
540
Age
30
Well I've said this before but what the hell.

1/ No Spuffy romance. Sorry guys but it became a noose around both characters and the shows neck. For me Buffy is basically Evil Dead but with a bit more heart, rather than True Blood or Anne Rice. IE it's a show where Vampires and Demons are ugly, blood thirsty, ridiculously evil monsters that you can kill in over the top ways. (Angel doesn't count as he has a soul and is therefore special. He's more like Blade in that respect.)

It's horror and monster elements were well thought out and written brilliantly, even for one offs like Der Kindestod, James Stanley and Grace Newman, etc. The difference between it and Evil Dead was that it managed to also focus on the characters personal lives a bit too.

Spuffy meanwhile I feel turned it into a precursor for the Vampire Diaries, True Blood, IE soapy garbage about hot Vampires having crazy sex, with the monsters and supernatural being a back drop for soap opera.

For me from seasons 5-7, Spike would remain a self serving, backstabbing cad ala Crowley from SPN. He would still work with the team in season 5 against Glory because he realises that Glory will threaten the entire world. On top of this all the Demons who are after him from season 4 force him to be with the Scoobies more closely. Season 6 would see him develop a friendship with Dawn meanwhile, whilst 7 sees him help them against the First who hates Spike. Perhaps Spike and the First formed an alliance back in the 20s or something and Spike betrayed it (in typical Spike fashion.) I'd also have him and Buffy develop a Crowley/ Dean type relationship too.

IE there is a grudging respect between them, as both represent the one that "got away" in the sense of the one Vamp and Slayer that the other couldn't defeat permanently. I also think they could have drawn quite interesting parallels between them. IE both are compared to other Slayers and Vampires, young, immature, bratty, and don't go by the old traditions, and both sometimes blunder in there without thinking. However ultimately as both are more willing to think for themselves, both are more unpredictable foes and that's why both ultimately outlast all the others. (Spike outlasts all the other Big Bads, Buffy lives longer than the other Slayers.)

I'd never take it into romantic territory though.

2/ No Riley Vampire whorehouse story. Hated this plot and how it was executed. I get it that Riley needed to go, but there should have been a better way than this. Incredibly enough Buffy, Spike and Riley all came off badly in this. Spike was lame, Buffy meanwhile was rewritten to being attracted to Angelus, the rapist, psycho vamp that killed and tortured her friends, and Riley became a weird, masochistic, tosser.

To me having Riley get captured by Glory and being tortured to death by her in Intervention to protect Dawn instead of Spike would have been a more memorable exit and might have redeemed him in the fans eyes.

3/ No Trio. No disrespect to the actors, but they were the weakest villains. I'd have had something use Buffy to cross over from the other side. Not necessarily a Demon, just a creature from another dimension, and I'd have it possess Willow and use her magic to try and bring its bretheren into this world.

Tara wouldn't die and would be the one to help rehabilitate Willow.

4/ No Potential Slayers

I'd instead have the Firsts plan be to release the Turok Han Vampires. I'd explain their lore, mythology. Maybe they were an attempt to create the ultimate monster by followers of the Old Ones (after the Old Ones were banished) from the first Vampire, who was a direct descendant of an Old One. The Turok Han became too unpredictable however and were sealed away by other supernatural creatures. The First meanwhile turns to them because its followers are few and far between. At one point all Demons worshipped the First, who went by many names (Satan, Mephistopheles etc.) Most Demons, Vamps etc now however have gone on to work for or worship the Old Ones, or other Demons like the Master and gods like Glory, Wolfram and Hart etc because they are seemingly more powerful than the First.

The Firsts only minions are the Bringers, bottom feeders, and so it decides to release the Turok Han to destroy all of human and Demon kind for their betrayal. (The Turok Han are easier for the First to make loyal as they are just simple beasts unlike the Old Ones.) The season revolves around the Turok Han who can feed on and are stronger than other Demons and sees Buffy and her team have to work with some old enemies against them. I'd have the Turok Han with the Firsts help kill D'Hoffryn and Halfrek, all of Anya's old friends.

I'd have Anya die mid way through the season, at the hands of a Turok Han. (NOT Caleb as that might send the wrong message.) To me that would be better than having Xander lose an eye, as it could give Anya a proper send off, and be used to explore the effects in a better way. (I'd also have had Xander marry Anya in season 6 too. Him leaving her was out of character and contrived and that would make her death all the more tragic for Xander.)

The season would eventually see the Turok han overrunning Sunnydale, with Buffy and her friends being forced underground as the above city just becomes a death trap like the Wish. This eventually leads to the Scoobies discovering the portal the first is using to release the Turok Han (I'd have it that they are being released from the upper layer of the Hellmouth. Here we'd finally see the hellmouth in all its glory, maybe even have an episode where will investigating it, Buffy and Spike end up falling through it to the other side for a while before escaping.)

Willow and Tara then have to seal it permanently, whilst Buffy and her friends have to hold the monsters off. After the hell mouth is sealed, Buffy and the surviving Scoobies would travel above and take care of the Turok Han in a less of a deux machina way. Spike would make a final sacrifice to close the Hellmouth for good, but it would be left open ended if it was just to get back at the First or because he cared about his new friends the Scoobies (again like Crowley and Lucifer.)

The show would end with Buffy and her gang having saved Sunnydale, now being known to the population and be public superheroes, (but not to the world outside) The outcasts would finally be accepted, kind of like the class protector award scene, but on a grander scale.

Angel the series meanwhile?

Season 3: NO CONNOR and NO CANGEL

Right away I would keep Cordy the sarcastic bitch we all knew and loved who kept Angel in check rather than his annoyingly smug, fangirl who puts him above the guy who stuck with her when Angel fired her.

I'd have Holtz be the main villain and form his team made up of members of Gunn's gang, and others. Justine would have been someone whose family Angel killed during Buffy season 2. Holtz however would struggle with his conscience when he found out that Angel had a soul, and this would reach a head when Holtz and Angel would both be forced to work together stop and finally put an end to Darla who would return with some of the Masters old minions to get back at Angel and Wolfram and Hart. (Holtz would the be the one to kill Darla.)

Eventually Holtz would remove Angel's soul using magic so he could get back at Angelus. Angelus however would escape and kill Justine and leave Holtz a broken man.

Season 4 would then see Angelus loose and working with Wolfram and Hart to bring about the appocalypse. Holtz in desperation to try and make up for his actions would help Team Angel re-ensoul him. (Gunn would also reunite with some of his team and find more common ground with them again.)

The rest of the season would then see team Angel take on a monster that Angelus had unleashed. Holtz would die trying to stop it, and Cordy would be put in a coma, before Angel brought the monster down.

Season 5 would unfold exactly the same, (Wolfram and Hart offering Angel in the hopes that he can carry on what he started.) Except that when Lindsey brought Spike back he would ensure that his soul was restored. (In order to upset the natural order and **** with Angel.) Series 5 unfolds exactly the same way with a few differences. (Obviously any Spuffy moments are taken out.)

Connor meanwhile like I said would not be introduced, but maybe we could have Vincent Karthazier being introduced as a sort of super kid, with his lovable season 5 persona in season 4 as a minor character and that way you could still do the season 5 episode. You'd have to rewrite it so that he wasn't Angel's son but you could keep the same story where magic was perhaps used to create him some way, and Angel would be trying to protect the boy and developing a fatherly bond with him.
 
Last edited:

Nix

🤪
Joined
Feb 6, 2002
Messages
10,344
Location
UK
Sineya
To be honest...there are things I hate/dislike that I still wouldn't change as if I changed anything, would the fandom still be here? We chat about things we have in common but also things we don't... I love the diversity of opinions and to be honest I probably could not make it any better. Yes minor changes would be great but they are only in my opinion, what I might hate (Connor's acting!) others may love... Lame answer I know 🤨
 
Top Bottom