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I am going be honest I have never really like Faith!

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
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49
I just don't like the self victimization & the jealousy/anger/blame towards Buffy because her life sucked in S3. Buffy wanted to help her & Faith backstabbed & went behind her back to join the mayor in a massacre. For no reason.
It wasn't for no reason but it wasn't Buffy's fault either she did her best.

Faith is a fantastic character and her flaws are a big reason why I love her :)

I like it when my favorites have flaws and "holes" that shouldn't be there, it just makes them a lot more human and a lot more compelling, I don't like boring perfect characters who are supposed to be little angels...
I agree but I too love a flawed character I hate how their faults are thrown in my face and Faith's glossed over. If you don't do that than I apologise but some who shall remain nameless do.
 

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,661
Sineya
Faith's glossed over
I don't gloss over my favorites and do my best in order not to put them on a pedestal.
I am aware that I won't always agree with their actions and might even view them as very wrong (such as Faith killing 2 people and sort of abusing Buffy's body during the swap), but at the end of the day, they are fictional characters, not gods that could do no wrong.
 

vampmogs

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412
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I absolutely love Faith as a character but that also means sometimes loving to hate her too.

Simply put; I find Faith really entertaining to watch. I have a fondness for Slayers because it affords us a lot of pretty kickass scenes and personality-wise I never find her boring. I don't think Eliza is the strongest actress in the show but I think she's an absolutely perfect Faith and I never felt a scene was letdown by her acting. In fact, I can't fault her acting in any episode of BtVS/AtS that she appears in (Dollhouse is a different story).

I also really love her relationship with Buffy and it's probably my favourite Buffy relationship in the show after the Core Four. I'm way more invested in the complexities and intricacies of the Buffy/Faith relationship than I am Buffy's relationships with Angel, Riley or Spike. I find their dynamic utterly fascinating and compelling.

She was also a superb addition to AtS and my only regret is that she didn't get to appear more.

But I make no excuses for Faith's actions in S3-S4 and I have no desire to justify some of the abhorrent decisions that she makes. I love her when she's good but I will just as easily call her evil when I think she's being bad. For instance, her plan to sadistically maim and torture Buffy in Enemies out of seething rage and jealousy is probably one of the evilest actions a human with a soul ever tries to commit on BtVS, IMO. It's shockingly evil. But it's also incredibly captivating and entertaining to watch and Buffy squaring off with Faith gives me goosebumps ("May I just say something? Psyche"). I love to hate her in that scene and that's sometimes just as fun too. I am cheering for Buffy to kick her ass in Graduation Day and get a kick out of Buffy flipping Faith over the railing when she gets too cocky ("Not getting tired are ya? I'm just starting to feel it" *Buffy rams Faith backwards into the wall*) because Buffy is My Girl but their rivalry/antagonism is just so gripping.

And then when Faith tries to change I support that too but I never lose sight of what she did to Buffy or why Buffy still holds such animosity towards her. I completely sympathise with Buffy in Sanctuary despite also rooting for Faith's rehabilitation at the same time.

So yes, I love the character. I love her when she's good, when she's bad, and when she's trying to atone. I don't love some of her dialogue in S7 (since when did she start saying "yo" and "mad skilzz" etc) but she's even one of the few characters in Empty Places who doesn't come out of it looking like a total jerk. I do think fans have a tendency sometimes to excuse her actions and disproportionately blame the Scoobies for being "too mean" to Faith in S3 because I don't think that's entirely true. On the flip side, I think other fans miss the mark when they dismiss her as a stereotype or when they fail to acknowledge the "failings on both sides" that did occur in S3 as well. Faith's arc that season is something of a tragedy.
 
littlemisscooby
littlemisscooby
I forgot about the S7 dialogue. Totally strange 😂

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
7,252
Sineya
I find it funny how people said it wasn't Buffy fault or the other but Fait fault because she acted like a troublemaker.

Does anyone ever ask where Faith lived ? That something I find funny about her being wild when she didn't have anything.
After all she was able to make it across the US all by herself & being hunted & having to share Giles with Buffy .

Also Giles should have looked in to Faith background & looked after her . I get the feeling that they were taking her for
granted. That after all was why Faith was with the Mayor .
 

RachM

I'm busy. I'm brooding.
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
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Australia
I loved Faith back in the day, to the point where I used to defend a lot of her actions and gloss over her flaws. This mostly came from over-identifying with the character when I was younger.

These days I still enjoy her as a character but I don't love her to the extent that I used to and I understand much more why fans don't like her or have a hard time forgiving her actions. She makes a lot of wrong decisions and hurts a lot of people but I do think she has great growth and does show genuine remorse for her past actions, which goes a long way in making her likable. Angel does a great job with her character and I often wish she had remained on that show and continued her arc in Season 5.

I think Faith is one of those characters who was wildly popular back in the day but is less so now because audiences are less blinded by her charisma and so see her flaws and terrible actions clearer.
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
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East of Trouble
I've never disliked the character, but I've oft wondered how the character would improved had better actor ben cast in the role.
Eliza is kinda wooden. I love Faith though, but she is difficult to stomach until Angel season 1. But, I relate to not fitting in or belonging. I see her as the child of abuse, neglect, & abandoment who has learned to be a survivor. So of course she is not nice. She needed prison.

That said, i think she is deeply moral and committed to friend and fight AEB her breakout from prison and willingness to be poisoned to save Angel. The fact that she decided to go to prison at all makes me respect her and her self awareness. Not many are so utterly broken or so honest as she becomes. We see even the prison guard comes to respect her.

When she comes to Sunnydale, she does not grab for Buffy's power the way kennedy & Giles do. Buffy has to encourage her to lead. It is why I see her and Buffy becoming closer as the wreckage of Sunnydale leaves her as the only one Buffy trusts after her friends gang up on her.

So, no I don't hate Faith, though i find her early behaviour reprehensible. She is a wounded wild animal. Feral. Dangerous. I understand why she acts out and then melts down. She is deeply broken. Utterly alone. (Why weren't the WC supporting her?) But. I do NOT excuse it. Fortunately she does not either. That is why i am willing to give her a second chance.

We are not responsible for our past but we are accountable for our actions and their consequences.
 
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Priceless

Scooby
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Jan 25, 2016
Messages
8,059
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UK
The thing that stops me from feeling sorry for Faith is her own self-pity. I'm watching Season 3 currently and in every episode she references her childhood and how bad it was, as if this were an excuse for her awful behaviour. She's actually quite one note and I much prefer her on AtS, when she's allowed to develop more.
 
Athene
Athene
Faith only mentions it once in a self-pity way

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
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7,252
Sineya
The thing that stops me from feeling sorry for Faith is her own self-pity. I'm watching Season 3 currently and in every episode she references her childhood and how bad it was, as if this were an excuse for her awful behaviour. She's actually quite one note and I much prefer her on AtS, when she's allowed to develop more.
While it not a excuse for bad behavior it does explain why she the way she is . You think they would have picked up on that.
 

burrunjor

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Nov 13, 2018
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I was going to leave this alone, since it is more of an opinion than an argument being presented, but since my name's been dropped, I'm just gonna say that haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.
Eliza Dushku is so god damned sexy.
 

burrunjor

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Always be scared to say this as thought would agree with me.

Has anyone else ever found it hard to like Faith?>.
I love the character of Faith and Eliza, but I can see why someone would find her unsympathetic.

Willow's chewing her out in season 3 is one of the absolute best moments in the series. Faith really doesn't have a comeback. 😆
 

burrunjor

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I absolutely love Faith as a character but that also means sometimes loving to hate her too.

Simply put; I find Faith really entertaining to watch. I have a fondness for Slayers because it affords us a lot of pretty kickass scenes and personality-wise I never find her boring. I don't think Eliza is the strongest actress in the show but I think she's an absolutely perfect Faith and I never felt a scene was letdown by her acting. In fact, I can't fault her acting in any episode of BtVS/AtS that she appears in (Dollhouse is a different story).

I also really love her relationship with Buffy and it's probably my favourite Buffy relationship in the show after the Core Four. I'm way more invested in the complexities and intricacies of the Buffy/Faith relationship than I am Buffy's relationships with Angel, Riley or Spike. I find their dynamic utterly fascinating and compelling.

She was also a superb addition to AtS and my only regret is that she didn't get to appear more.

But I make no excuses for Faith's actions in S3-S4 and I have no desire to justify some of the abhorrent decisions that she makes. I love her when she's good but I will just as easily call her evil when I think she's being bad. For instance, her plan to sadistically maim and torture Buffy in Enemies out of seething rage and jealousy is probably one of the evilest actions a human with a soul ever tries to commit on BtVS, IMO. It's shockingly evil. But it's also incredibly captivating and entertaining to watch and Buffy squaring off with Faith gives me goosebumps ("May I just say something? Psyche"). I love to hate her in that scene and that's sometimes just as fun too. I am cheering for Buffy to kick her ass in Graduation Day and get a kick out of Buffy flipping Faith over the railing when she gets too cocky ("Not getting tired are ya? I'm just starting to feel it" *Buffy rams Faith backwards into the wall*) because Buffy is My Girl but their rivalry/antagonism is just so gripping.

And then when Faith tries to change I support that too but I never lose sight of what she did to Buffy or why Buffy still holds such animosity towards her. I completely sympathise with Buffy in Sanctuary despite also rooting for Faith's rehabilitation at the same time.

So yes, I love the character. I love her when she's good, when she's bad, and when she's trying to atone. I don't love some of her dialogue in S7 (since when did she start saying "yo" and "mad skilzz" etc) but she's even one of the few characters in Empty Places who doesn't come out of it looking like a total jerk. I do think fans have a tendency sometimes to excuse her actions and disproportionately blame the Scoobies for being "too mean" to Faith in S3 because I don't think that's entirely true. On the flip side, I think other fans miss the mark when they dismiss her as a stereotype or when they fail to acknowledge the "failings on both sides" that did occur in S3 as well. Faith's arc that season is something of a tragedy.
Brilliant analysis, I couldn't put it better myself. I think a lot of people make a mistake of if they like a character they will try and defend them no matter what. Of course you can't defend Faith's abhorrent actions, but that doesn't mean she isn't still a great character overall.

Buffy and Faith were a great pairing. Archenemies are always more exciting and Faith was really Buffy's archenemy.

My favourite line to Faith from Buffy's was this "All that killing and you're afraid to die." Spiteful but true.

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for tomboys though I must admit. Had she not been a crazy murderer Faith seems like she'd be cool to hang out with.

I will say though I'm not to sure I liked Faith's appearances in S7. She should have been brought back earlier. As it was it felt too rushed.
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
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Sineya
Brilliant analysis, I couldn't put it better myself. I think a lot of people make a mistake of if they like a character they will try and defend them no matter what. Of course you can't defend Faith's abhorrent actions, but that doesn't mean she isn't still a great character overall.

Buffy and Faith were a great pairing. Archenemies are always more exciting and Faith was really Buffy's archenemy.

My favorite line to Faith from Buffy's was this "All that killing and you're afraid to die." Spiteful but true.

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for tomboys though I must admit. Had she not been a crazy murderer Faith seems like she'd be cool to hang out with.

I will say though I'm not to sure I liked Faith's appearances in S7. She should have been brought back earlier. As it was it felt too rushed.
I agree with what you said about it feeling Faith was rushed in Season 7 but at least they showed you Faith & Buffy becoming friends again.
And Faith agreed with Buffy that it wasn't just the fact that they were both Slayers that made them rivals but her mental state as well .
 

burrunjor

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I agree with what you said about it feeling Faith was rushed in Season 7 but at least they showed you Faith & Buffy becoming friends again.
And Faith agreed with Buffy that it wasn't just the fact that they were both Slayers that made them rivals but her mental state as well .
True, I also liked her scene with Spike. Her and Spike would have been a very interesting couple I think, though obviously it was too late in the day to bring that in.

I often wish Spike and Faith had got their own show after S4 of Buffy. To me they were too big characters to just be side characters in other series.

I can see Spike skipping town after S4 to escape the Initiative, whilst Faith had left after Angel s1, and the two of them ended up in a small town together. The Slayer/Vampire romance would have been a better fir for those two for the following reasons.

We wouldn't have to rewrite Spike's past. Also I totally buy Faith being attracted to Spike and the fact that he is evil. Again with Buffy that just came out of nowhere and we had to rewrite her past to be, she was attracted to Angelus, or at least the fact that he could be Angelus, Buffy likes it rough UGH, I hated all that. I agree with Sarah it was demeaning to her character.

With Faith and Spike we could have got all the good things about Spuffy, like Spike becoming a better man, crazy Vampire/Slayer sex, but without the baggage.

Again though I suspect a few people will disagree with me on that, but that's how I feel.
 
Ethan Reigns
Ethan Reigns
Not only would Spaith have been a more interesting couple than Spuffy, we would not get the idea that our main character was being dragged through the mud.
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Messages
754
Black Thorn
i disliked her before I watched Angel (the first time I watched Buffy I watched it straight through without watching Angel at all) but I really came to like her in ats and I understood her character a whole lot more.
 

Benz

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But at same time i have to say i like Faith at times because she is interseing character and other times i cant stand her.
 
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