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I am going be honest I have never really like Faith!

Faded90

Scooby
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
692
Age
63
I could never see Spike falling in love with someone like Faith. I could see them hooking up but I don’t think the dynamic would be as interesting and layered as it is with Buffy
I agree. I think Faith/Spike would be an extremely lazy pairing, Spike would be far too needy as a partner for Faith and Spike for all his ‘bad boy’ stuff has never shown his liking for a ‘bad girl’. I love Faith but I’ve always felt a Faith/Spike pairing would end up taking her complexity away

I also think I’m one of the few people who hated the basement scene. I actually thought it was really ooc for where both characters currently were at, You had Spike being frustrated that Buffy hasn’t put out ‘not as of late’ (erm yeah because you tried to rape her!) and Faith calling her ‘little miss tightly wound’ when she hasn’t seen Buffy for 3 years or spent significant time with her for 4 year like is it really much of a surprise that Buffy has a sex life? I tend to fast forward it because it felt like a scene that could have taken place in s4 but both characters had grown past that since then. Yes I acknowledge that I read too much into the scene but it’s just always made my teeth itch for some reason 😂
 

Oromous

Socially Awkward
Joined
Aug 16, 2020
Messages
647
Age
31
Location
Singapore
Sineya
As a character, Faith is interesting, being a "what if" shadow side of Buffy. As a person... yeah, I'm not really a big fan of her either. It's one of those "I can sympathize with your actions of manslaughter and mayhem but I can't forgive them" situation. I'm usually pretty black-and-white when it comes to murder.

I mean, she's not necessarily a bad person, I know, but there were times when she came off as the one that's needy ("You've got your scoobies; what do I have?"), and I guess I've just seen one too many sob stories in antagonists to sympathize as much as others. Not to mention her shortsightedness in siding with the Mayor, someone who literally turned into a giant snake and killed a bunch of kids. Like what was she expecting? Bad guys like the Mayor are destructive forces that are never profitable to side with. It's not like joining the mafia.

NGL: I prefer Kendra over Faith any day. She might be "bland" as some people have called her, but she felt like a cool sister slayer character to Buffy. 'Tis a shame.
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
7,311
Sineya
But at same time i have to say i like Faith at times because she is interseing character and other times i cant stand her.
That Faith for you . You either love her or you hate her . There no middle ground with her & that one thing i love about her .
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
8,594
Location
UK
I think Faith's arc is amazing, her episodes on both shows are some of the best, but I never took to Faith herself. She just leaves me cold. It's weird one.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,533
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
I really like Faith but I understand why others don't at all. She has many flaws that she has to overcome and causes a lot of pain, death and destruction before she reforms. I love it when she's good and find her entertaining when she's bad but still I feel that Faith-fans don't gloss over the stuff that she does or make excuses for her. I suppose the fact that she takes responsibility for her actions in a way others don't/refuse to goes a long way in her favour, but that's not the only reason.

Firstly I tend to make allowances for youth with all the characters; I do this with Buffy and co in their high school years and that extends to a teen screw-up like Faith as well. She was 17/18 when she did all her awfulness not a fully fledged adult-person.
Faith's failings are very human and are evident from the first episode she appears in. She's a loner, an underdog and has a lot of self-hate which drives her destructive tenancies.
I agree that its really over on Angel that she really gets to shine, she's no longer the 'not-Buffy slayer' but becomes her own person, and gets many great moments. That includes the comics.
 
Taake
Taake
You really like Faith? This is brand new information! 😜

Dogs of Winter

Potential
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
156
Age
47
Faith was an interesting character. I tend to find flawed characters more interesting, and I really like the concept of Faith being the mirror image to Buffy

But my problem with Faith in Buffy S3 is that she was written as a complex character with a difficult upbringing who had trust and other emotional issues, and at the time I think Eliza's acting was a bit too limited to portray all the different sides to her

When she was being wild and larger than life she was often great and really charismatic. But then there were times when she overacted and other times when she was a bit flat

But I do love her episodes on Angel. She had some great storylines. Her acting improved but also I think on Angel they were better at writing to her strengths as a performer
 
whatdBuffyDo
whatdBuffyDo
I haven’t seen Angel but watched Faith episodes and I think Eliza’s acting is better in them. In S3, a lot of times I also felt that something wasn’t looking just right with Faith’s portrayal.

Cheese Slices

A Bidet of Evil
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
954
Location
France
Faith is usually the kind of character that I really dig, but for some reason I find myself mostly indifferent towards her. She's alright, but she doesn't move me the way she does some people. If i were to identify why I gotta say I feel that ED's performance might be the reason. I always feel like her emotional, "vulnerable" scenes are somewhat forced, idk to me she overdoes it and it feels artificial. She gets better in S7 though, and I warm up to the character more then.
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
934
Location
East of Trouble
I separate ED's early performaces (wooden) from the character., who I find fascinating. I love the character, though she grew on me a lot on Angel and later, probably bc her acting improved. I think I responded to the writing, not just the acting.
 

Cheese Slices

A Bidet of Evil
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
954
Location
France
I separate ED's early performaces (wooden) from the character., who I find fascinating. I love the character, though she grew on me a lot on Angel and later, probably bc her acting improved. I think I responded to the writing, not just the acting.
I wish I was capable of doing that. If the actor can't sell it, I'm not buying it. I can see how a character might be interesting from an intellectual standpoint thanks to the writing, but I can't be emotionally invested if the actor doesn't live up to it.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,533
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
It's so weird. I would never think to associate the word 'wooden' or 'unconvincing' with ED's portrayal of Faith, even in S3 where she was a newbie compared to all the actors around her, who by that point had their character beats nailed.
To me Faith always added something to an episode even if she was on the periphery; whether its humiliating the bland muffin that was Scott Hope or brawling with a Sisterite before lust-pouncing on Xander she always seems real to me. Hell, by the end of the season she's basically playing Eliza+ since Joss kept on including more ED material for her to work with.

Also the only episode Faith comes across as 'whiny' is Enemies, she's too guarded with her emotions otherwise to spill them over nothing, she is rarely looking for sympathy since she wants people to think that she's having a great time living in her crappy motel.
She always stands in start contrast to other characters who seem to wallow in self-pity.

The only real irritation with her character is, for me, her habit of mouthing off about subjects she doesn't fully understand. It grates...but I can count the number of times she does this on one hand and usually she has an 'in character' reason for doing it, whether its genuine ignorance or trying to get a reaction.
 

Faded90

Scooby
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
692
Age
63
It's so weird. I would never think to associate the word 'wooden' or 'unconvincing' with ED's portrayal of Faith, even in S3 where she was a newbie compared to all the actors around her, who by that point had their character beats nailed.
To me Faith always added something to an episode even if she was on the periphery; whether its humiliating the bland muffin that was Scott Hope or brawling with a Sisterite before lust-pouncing on Xander she always seems real to me. Hell, by the end of the season she's basically playing Eliza+ since Joss kept on including more ED material for her to work with.

Also the only episode Faith comes across as 'whiny' is Enemies, she's too guarded with her emotions otherwise to spill them over nothing, she is rarely looking for sympathy since she wants people to think that she's having a great time living in her crappy motel.
She always stands in start contrast to other characters who seem to wallow in self-pity.

The only real irritation with her character is, for me, her habit of mouthing off about subjects she doesn't fully understand. It grates...but I can count the number of times she does this on one hand and usually she has an 'in character' reason for doing it, whether its genuine ignorance or trying to get a reaction.
I agree I’ve never found Eliza wooden. Enemies I think she was incredibly good. The resentment rant aimed at Buffy is one of her best scenes, she nails the raw anger with just a touch of the crazy 😂. I also agree about the wallowing, I think Faith wallows in private but never outwardly so anyone can see, her entire character up to this point is ‘I’m just living my best life!’ Amends is the only time we ever really get a chip in that veneer.

I think the only scene of Faith’s that she’s annoyed me in (other than the obvious ‘villain’ scenes where we’re obviously supposed to see her as the bad guy) is the basement scene with Spike. But I put that mainly down to it just being a forced scene because it didn’t feel very organic for where she was currently at. Considering she’s now in Sunnydale with an ‘I’ve changed’ outlook and arc I just don’t think she’d be so judgemental as to be surprised that Buffy had a sex life and doing the ‘little miss tightly wound’ schtick - Faith who has pretty much always believed that Buffy is more ‘like her’ than she lets on, particularly when she hasn’t seen Buffy for 3 years. Particularly flirting with Spike using a time when she basically mentally broke and was at the height of her dickishness 😂 it’s a minor quibble as it’s a tiny part of her story in these episodes but I’ve always found it such a forced scene especially as it doesn’t build to anything or go anywhere
 
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IndianaSolo221

Potential
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
146
I've never disliked Faith, but I've always been very neutral to her character. I guess I can't really relate/sympathize with her much, but I'm glad that there are other fans out there who love her.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,533
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
Enemies I think she was incredibly good. The resentment rant aimed at Buffy is one of her best scenes, she nails the raw anger with just a touch of the crazy
Enemies is where Faith really embraces her darker thoughts and Eliza is terrific throughout. Also love how Buffy and Angel team up to outsmart her- a good villain brings out the best in the heroes. There's a lot of great scenes here but the Buffy/Faith/Angel/us stuff is iconic.

I think the only scene of Faith’s that she’s annoyed me in (other than the obvious ‘villain’ scenes where we’re obviously supposed to see her as the bad guy) is the basement scene with Spike. But I put that mainly down to it just being a forced scene because it didn’t feel very organic for where she was currently at. Considering she’s now in Sunnydale with an ‘I’ve changed’ outlook and arc I just don’t think she’d be so judgemental as to be surprised that Buffy had a sex life and doing the ‘little miss tightly wound’ schtick - Faith who has pretty much always believed that Buffy is more ‘like her’ than she lets on, particularly when she hasn’t seen Buffy for 3 years. Particularly flirting with Spike using a time when she basically mentally broke and was at the height of her dickishness
I see where you're coming from and whilst I would prefer Faith to be having a scene with Xander or Willow or Giles I would say that it is in-character for her to seek out Spike. Their previous conversation established that Spike (like Faith) might not be a welcome presence for everybody in the house so she might find it more relaxing to be in his company if the opportunity presented itself.
Plus she's pent up from all the prison time and Spike is hot so...conversation and flirting makes some sense.

As for the 'little miss tightly-wound' comment; in context I figure that Faith is surprised that Buffy would sleep with an 'unsouled' Spike. I don't see it as judgemental exactly (she didn't go ew, in fact she seemed pleased/impressed), I just see her bringing up 'that one time' to try and engineer some sexy times. Is it, 'y'know, wise? No, but Faith still has some of her old character flaws as of S7.
 
Faded90
Faded90
Can’t disagree with any of that!

Athene

Scooby
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
2,681
Age
21
Sineya
I think the fact that Eliza was a young actress who didn't have that much experience worked so well for Faith, it made the whole thing feel raw and I thought Eliza showed such a great range in Faith she showed vulnerability, anger, disappointment, sadness, insecurity, happiness. I thought it was great.
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
7,311
Sineya
I really like Faith but I understand why others don't at all. She has many flaws that she has to overcome and causes a lot of pain, death and destruction before she reforms. I love it when she's good and find her entertaining when she's bad but still I feel that Faith-fans don't gloss over the stuff that she does or make excuses for her. I suppose the fact that she takes responsibility for her actions in a way others don't/refuse to goes a long way in her favour, but that's not the only reason.

Firstly I tend to make allowances for youth with all the characters; I do this with Buffy and co in their high school years and that extends to a teen screw-up like Faith as well. She was 17/18 when she did all her awfulness not a fully fledged adult-person.
Faith's failings are very human and are evident from the first episode she appears in. She's a loner, an underdog and has a lot of self-hate which drives her destructive tenancies.
I agree that its really over on Angel that she really gets to shine, she's no longer the 'not-Buffy slayer' but becomes her own person, and gets many great moments. That includes the comics.
I agree with you on Faith . Sure she had a lot of problems but also a lot of people treated her as backup to Buffy . And Buffy & Co never thought of where Faith lived or what she did since she wasn't in school . I blame Giles more then the rest since not only is he a adult he a Watcher & in Faith he did nothing of that with her .
 
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Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
7,395
Location
Canada
Sineya
I never saw any acting problems with Eliza - she did a creditable job of portraying the PTSD associated with seeing her watcher murdered and her reluctance to take on Kakistos as a result of that. She also portrayed her shift to the dark side with the mayor very well. She really sold the instability and toughness of a street kid. Everything about her performance was believable.

There seems to be a dichotomy here - was Faith a great character to add to the story? Absolutely. Would I want someone like her in my life? Hell no.
 

ChaseRules

When it comes to dating I the Slayer.
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
7,311
Sineya
Or to put it another way . Was she a asset to the show ? YES .

And I more like Willow so I wouldn't want her in my life for the second question .
 
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