I don't understand Spuffy

[javidscool]

Hello, I'm new to the forums, and I know this question has probably been posed a million times before, but I simply CANNOT understand how anyone is Team Spike, aside from the fact that Spike is a bad boy and girls like bad boys. He abused her, tried to kill her many times, almost raped her, and even Buffy acknowledged that their relationship was destructive.

This was even touched upon on the final Buffy episodes of season 7, when she instantly ran into Angel's arms and started kissing him, making Spike jealous, and at the very end when Spike had the amulet on and Buffy said she loved him, he said, "no you don't, but thanks for saying it"...puleeease explain to me how anyone can be Team Spike, cause I really don't even see another choice BUT Team Angel. What am I missing???

 

[Athena]

This isn't really Bangel related, so I'll move it to a more appropriate section, but for me personally I see Bangel as very much a first love situation. You never forget them and they'll always be special but then you move on, not necessarily to someone good for you but someone who is different. I'm a big fan of the bad boys (more fool me, I admit!) and I see Spike as being a very complex and interesting character. While Spuffy isn't healthy (and I'll always admit that), the chemistry is electric and they're two characters I personally love to watch together, whether it's the sparring or "sparring".

Basically, each to their own. You don't see Team Spuffy and that's great, but there are a lot of Spuffies on the board who see something differently to you and it doesn't make anyone wrong in their view.

 

[javidscool]

This isn't really Bangel related, so I'll move it to a more appropriate section, but for me personally I see Bangel as very much a first love situation. You never forget them and they'll always be special but then you move on, not necessarily to someone good for you but someone who is different. I'm a big fan of the bad boys (more fool me, I admit!) and I see Spike as being a very complex and interesting character. While Spuffy isn't healthy (and I'll always admit that), the chemistry is electric and they're two characters I personally love to watch together, whether it's the sparring or "sparring".

Basically, each to their own. You don't see Team Spuffy and that's great, but there are a lot of Spuffies on the board who see something differently to you and it doesn't make anyone wrong in their view.

Ok, I'm very sorry I posted this in the wrong section. Again, I'm new here and can use all the help I can get getting started. Yeah, again, I posted this because I want to see Team Spike's point of view, because you're right, I don't see Team Spuffy at all and want to learn more about why they feel they way they do, so I can learn. I personally thing that if it wasn't for that damned gypsy curse, Spuffy wouldn't even be a thing, as Buffy would instantly run into Angel's arms the first chance she gets, like she did in Angel Season 1 Episode 8 - I will remember you

 

[Athena]

Not a problem

I guess the easiest way I can explain it is Bangel is pure sweet young love. Spuffy is passionate and fiery. Both are complicated, and you're probably right, without Angelus rearing his rather good looking, yet completely evil and sadistic head we would never have had Spuffy at all, but I doubt we would have had seven seasons of Buffy either, because where's the conflict in young, sweet, perfect love?

 

[javidscool]

Not a problem

I guess the easiest way I can explain it is Bangel is pure sweet young love. Spuffy is passionate and fiery. Both are complicated, and you're probably right, without Angelus rearing his rather good looking, yet completely evil and sadistic head we would never have had Spuffy at all, but I doubt we would have had seven seasons of Buffy either, because where's the conflict in young, sweet, perfect love?

haha I don't know about that, because even if there was no curse, Buffy and Angel would've still found something to argue about. In fact, Angel and Buffy arguments are one of the greatest things about the show for me, cause they're always arguments that have a deep foundation in love and caring. Love is complicated! Even if Buffy and Angel had it, you could do 20 seasons of them trying to hold on to and keep it, I feel haha

 

[flow]

I love Spikes and Buffys relationship. In fact they are the reason I watched the show and became an addict.

But I do think the whole Bangel versus Spuffy thing has become too important. It doesn`t matter if you love Bangel or Spuffy or prefer Buffy to be with Riley or Faith or even single. The important thing is that we are all in love with this wonderful series. We are all team Buffy, if it comes to that. And maybe we should talk more about what unites us than about what didvides us.

To me there is so much beauty, passion and love in Spuffy. But if you don`t see that, than that is absolutely fine. It doesn`t mean one of us has an eye-deficiency. It just means we love different things. And that is because we are individuals with our own preferences and our own exoeriences.

By the way - nice to have you on this forum !

flow

 

[The Bronze]

Hello, I'm new to the forums, and I know this question has probably been posed a million times before

Welcome to the boards. The official count is now at 3,485,802 times.

cause I really don't even see another choice BUT Team Angel.

I'm not a massive shipper so will leave the bigging up of spuffy to the likes of @GoSpuffy and @Priceless who I'm sure will be along in a minute. I will say that seeing past Team Angel is easy enough though. Angel giving up their chance to be together in I Will Remember You without even consulting Buffy first is an obvious example of why not everyone would be on board with the couple long term. That and the general drifting into different lives, the curse and changing over time.

 

[Guy]

Why do people ship Spuffy? Well, in a nutshell:

www.fanpop.com/clubs/buffy-and-damon-duffy-bamon/images/32860649/title/because-wrong-fanart

Perfect romances are boring, troubled romances are interesting. People like Spuffy for the same reason that people DON'T like Briley.

Plus, it's just more of a journey. Buffy went from hating Spike to loving him, over the course of 6 years, and we always understood why she felt the way she did, and what made her feelings change. That change is just inherently interesting. By contrast, Bangel was just so EASY - they met, they fell in love in a few episodes, I never really understood WHY they fell in love, and that was it. The end. And that left their story with nowhere to go - when two characters love each other so soon, the only place their story can go is down (which is what happened in season 2, when Angel turned evil), or away (which happened at the end of season 3, when Angel left for his spin-off). So, I prefer Spuffy to Bangel because there's just a lot more story to it.

Also, I just think that Buffy's chemistry with Spike was WAY better than her chemistry with Angel, but I guess that's subjective.

 

[javidscool]

I love Spikes and Buffys relationship. In fact they are the reason I watched the show and became an addict.

But I do think the whole Bangel versus Spuffy thing has become too important. It doesn`t matter if you love Bangel or Spuffy or prefer Buffy to be with Riley or Faith or even single. The important thing is that we are all in love with this wonderful series. We are all team Buffy, if it comes to that. And maybe we should talk more about what unites us than about what didvides us.

To me there is so much beauty, passion and love in Spuffy. But if you don`t see that, than that is absolutely fine. It doesn`t mean one of us has an eye-deficiency. It just means we love different things. And that is because we are individuals with our own preferences and our own exoeriences.

By the way - nice to have you on this forum !

flow

I wholeheartedly agree with you that we all love Buffy and should talk about things that unite us, and I can see why this is such a touchy subject for many Buffy fans. However, this forum has so many different points of view that I truly wanted to see everyone's opinion on this extremely polarizing subject. I feel that issues like these should be brought up and discussed, in a polite way of course, in places like these, as we can all learn from each other and grow together.

Now while I certainly do see lots of beauty, passion, and love in Spuffy, the big problem I have with it is that it's foundation is extremely rocky. When we first see Spike in Buffy S2E3 - School Hard, he's an absolute maniac. He continues to be this way throughout the series, and only first turns to the side of good because of the chip the Initiative put in him in season 4. When Buffy finally conceded and they got together, she was having a multitude of issues with her life, friends, her mother was sick and then died, Faith was giving her trouble, and she needed release. She even admitted at the end of S6E15 that she was using them, and that they were destroying each other. Again, even at the end of S7E22 Spike acknowledges that she doesn't love him. This doesn't seem like a solid, loving foundation to me, which is why I can't get behind Team Spike.

 

[white avenger]

I didn't start watching the show until partway into Season 6, so the relationship between Buffy and Spike that I first saw didn't have any of the back history for me that fans from the beginning might have had. I was impressed by the dynamic between the two characters and how they seemed to compliment each other. Later, when I began to watch the earlier Seasons in syndication, I never ever saw that same thing between Buffy and Angel. As I've said before, to me, Angel will always just be the big clod who was trying to mess with Spike's girl. Having said that, however, I have no real problem with the Bangel relationship in its place. I simply see it as a high school girl's first crush on a dark mysterious Harlequin Romance novel character.

 

[javidscool]

Why do people ship Spuffy? Well, in a nutshell:

www.fanpop.com/clubs/buffy-and-damon-duffy-bamon/images/32860649/title/because-wrong-fanart

Perfect romances are boring, troubled romances are interesting. People like Spuffy for the same reason that people DON'T like Briley.

Plus, it's just more of a journey. Buffy went from hating Spike to loving him, over the course of 6 years, and we always understood why she felt the way she did, and what made her feelings change. That change is just inherently interesting. By contrast, Bangel was just so EASY - they met, they fell in love in a few episodes, I never really understood WHY they fell in love, and that was it. The end. And that left their story with nowhere to go - when two characters love each other so soon, the only place their story can go is down (which is what happened in season 2, when Angel turned evil), or away (which happened at the end of season 3, when Angel left for his spin-off). So, I prefer Spuffy to Bangel because there's just a lot more story to it.

Also, I just think that Buffy's chemistry with Spike was WAY better than her chemistry with Angel, but I guess that's subjective.

hahaha this is an excellent answer, and one that I can certainly get behind...however, I still think that Bangel could've given a lot more millage than it did, because, again, love is complicated, and Angel and Buffy would've always found something to complain about, some new challenge to face. Just look at marriages that are over 50+ years old. Think they've never had a fight or an argument? Think again. Also, there's the age issue, with Angel never growing older and Buffy eventually getting old and dying, which was masterfully brought up by the mayor in season 3 of Buffy. Also, there could even be normal relationship things, like Buffy getting bored of Angel later on, or vice versa. Basically, there are TONS of things you could do with Bangel, and it would've been interesting to see how their relationship played out, rather than kinda falling flat, rightly so, because of Angel's curse.
 

I didn't start watching the show until partway into Season 6, so the relationship between Buffy and Spike that I first saw didn't have any of the back history for me that fans from the beginning might have had. I was impressed by the dynamic between the two characters and how they seemed to compliment each other. Later, when I began to watch the earlier Seasons in syndication, I never ever saw that same thing between Buffy and Angel. As I've said before, to me, Angel will always just be the big clod who was trying to mess with Spike's girl. Having said that, however, I have no real problem with the Bangel relationship in its place. I simply see it as a high school girl's first crush on a dark mysterious Harlequin Romance novel character.

what about the abuse they lay on each other? and possibly the biggest issue I have, that Spike tried to rape Buffy?
 

Welcome to the boards. The official count is now at 3,485,802 times.

I'm not a massive shipper so will leave the bigging up of spuffy to the likes of @GoSpuffy and @Priceless who I'm sure will be along in a minute. I will say that seeing past Team Angel is easy enough though. Angel giving up their chance to be together in I Will Remember You without even consulting Buffy first is an obvious example of why not everyone would be on board with the couple long term. That and the general drifting into different lives, the curse and changing over time.

well remember, the reason Angel gave up the chance to be with Buffy in "I Will Remember You" is because she would've gotten killed by the soldiers coming for them. He was trying to save her life.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

It's not all about the handsome bad boy. Spike is the sensitive boy with the painted nails who gets under your skin.

at the very end when Spike had the amulet on and Buffy said she loved him, he said, "no you don't, but thanks for saying it"

If you don't get this on your own, then no-one will be able to explain it to you. It is a call-back to the horrible scene in Seeing Red. With or without a soul, Spike could not live without Buffy. It is the perfect end to any romantic character.

 

[javidscool]

It's not all about the handsome bad boy. Spike is the sensitive boy with the painted nails who gets under your skin.

If you don't get this on your own, then no-one will be able to explain it to you. It is a call-back to the horrible scene in Seeing Red. With out without a soul, Spike could not live without Buffy. It is the perfect end to any romantic character.

ok, but what kind of way is it to express your love than to try raping her, as Spike did in Seeing Red? If you really love someone, you treat them better than Spike treated Buffy. You certainly don't make it a constant sex thing, you don't try to rape them, and you don't act like an asshole either. It's clear to see that the relationship wasn't healthy, just look at the results of it. Were they better people in the relationship and after, I would vehemently argue no. Buffy was ashamed to tell people about Spike, and that also says a lot. She was also going thru tons of issues, that says a lot as well. This was a rock-and-roll relationship, and those kinds of relationships just don't end well. There was waaay too much instability in Spuffy, and while that may make for better drama, it isn't good for Buffy in the end.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

ok, but what kind of way is it to express your love than to try raping her, as Spike did in Seeing Red? If you really love someone, you treat them better than Spike treated Buffy. You certainly don't make it a constant sex thing, you don't try to rape them, and you don't act like an asshole either. It's clear to see that the relationship wasn't healthy, just look at the results of it. Were they better people in the relationship and after, I would vehemently argue no. Buffy was ashamed to tell people about Spike, and that also says a lot. She was also going thru tons of issues, that says a lot as well. This was a rock-and-roll relationship, and those kinds of relationships just don't end well. There was waaay too much instability in Spuffy, and while that may make for better drama, it isn't good for Buffy in the end.

If you love someone, you kill their cousin and commit joint suicide. Don't test me, I have the entire Western literary canon backing me

 

[Guy]

hahaha this is an excellent answer, and one that I can certainly get behind...however, I still think that Bangel could've given a lot more millage than it did, because, again, love is complicated, and Angel and Buffy would've always found something to complain about, some new challenge to face. Just look at marriages that are over 50+ years old. Think they've never had a fight or an argument? Think again. Also, there's the age issue, with Angel never growing older and Buffy eventually getting old and dying, which was masterfully brought up by the mayor in season 3 of Buffy. Also, there could even be normal relationship things, like Buffy getting bored of Angel later on, or vice versa. Basically, there are TONS of things you could do with Bangel, and it would've been interesting to see how their relationship played out, rather than kinda falling flat, rightly so, because of Angel's curse.

There's possible stories there... But after their epic arc in season 2, I just can't see how these stories wouldn't feel anti-climactic. I mean, how do you go from "close your eyes" to "did you take out the trash" without losing the audience's interest?

 

[javidscool]

If you love someone, you kill their cousin and commit joint suicide. Don't test me, I have the entire Western literary canon backing me

hahaha love is a crazy complicated thing! and I thing Bangel and Spuffy explored two different sides of that. I just think Bangel was just more pure and real. Like just look at the first time Angel laid eyes on Buffy, even before she moved to Sunnydale. He instantly fell in love, and wanted to do all he could to protect her and help keep her safe, which is what he was doing from the very first episode of Buffy. That shit is sweet, I don't care who you are lmao. The relationship blossomed naturally from there, because Buffy could tell Angel was pure and basically gave herself to him, to a vampire, the very creature she is sworn to kill. I don't care who you are, that is sweet and pure and true. None of this happened with Spike.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

protect her and help keep her safe

Yes, and for that I can never forgive him Spike admired Buffy much the way I admired her. I cannot condone or even try to defend his attempted rape of her. Spike's love is obsessive, uncompromising and destructive. Still, I enjoy most of his sentiments towards her. He is Buffy's biggest fan on the show.

 

[javidscool]

There's possible stories there... But after their epic arc in season 2, I just can't see how these stories wouldn't feel anti-climactic. I mean, how do you go from "close your eyes" to "did you take out the trash" without losing the audience's interest?

aaaaaawwww c'mon, there could be more interesting things than "don't take out the trash." Angel is an interesting, conflicted, brooding character, and they certainly could've found more things to do with him and Buffy. However, for everyone reading this, I TOTALLY AGREE with how they ended things between Buffy and Angel. Angel's curse made things impossible, as he couldn't give Buffy what she needed in a deep, loving relationship, as he stated in S3E20 of Buffy. I never had a problem with how things went with Bangel, or how things went with Spuffy (although I don't think Spuffy is healthy for anyone). I just think that Angel, without the curse, would've given Buffy a better relationship than Spike ever could.

 

[Priceless]

Before Spuffy I am a Buffy fan, she is my girl and I want what's best for her, and that's Spike. He's complex and complicated character (like Buffy), even in Season 2 when he was meant to be dangerous and evil, he had the capacity to love. He was in love with Dru and looked after her for a hundred years. Not only that, he made a pact with Buffy to save the world, a world that he loved being in. He wasn't a one dimensional big bad, but had layers and nuances that were interesting and exciting.

We saw his progression from William, the nerdy romantic poet, belittled by his peers and rejected by the woman he loved, through his siring and days as William the Bloody. At his heart he's a romantic who longs to be loved. His history was interesting and sad and gave me a deeper understanding of his character and why he behaved the way he did.

Spuffy works on so many levels. There is real chemistry between the characters, they are just hot together. They need each other psychologically. Buffy makes Spike seek the light, realise he can change and does have a choice, and he chooses to get a soul. Spike makes Buffy accept the demon within, the darkness, and makes her a stronger more mature person. Spike understands Buffy better than anyone else, he sees the girl and the slayer, all of her, and loves her completely.

Once he has a soul he realises that being loved isn't what's important, it's loving someone else, to give love without expecting anything in return. He loves Buffy to the detriment of himself. He's happy to die to save her and the world an achieves the redemption he deserves. His story is one of the most compelling in the whole show.

In the comics Buffy and Spike have a mature happy equal relationship, they discuss their problems, they listen to each other. But when it comes to the Slaying, Buffy is the boss, and I like that. I don't think she would ever had that with any of her other partners, but Spike is happy to be and equal at home and a second in command on the battlefield. He is pretty much perfect, and gives Buffy everything she need

 

[javidscool]

Yes, and for that I can never forgive him Spike admired Buffy much the way I admired her. I cannot condone or even try to defend his attempted rape of her. Spike's love is obsessive, uncompromising and destructive. Still, I enjoy most of his sentiments towards her. He is Buffy's biggest fan on the show.

I just think Spike is ****ed up and has too many issues to be in ANY relationship lmao, especially with a girl like Buffy, who has issues of her own as well.