1. Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Ten thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

I hate how Kennedy just forced herself on Willow and invited her self into group!

Discussion in 'Season 7' started by Benz, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    2,046
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Teabag Central
    Reputation:
    2,533
    Sineya
    They were never that bothered about age differences on Buffy :rolleyes::)
     
  2. DarkGoddess

    DarkGoddess The babe with the power

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    73
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    41
    Yeah I get the not too similar, but I still didn't feel like they were a real couple with connection...
    I don't know, maybe it's the chemistry between the actresses, but I didn't buy it
     
    jellokitty likes this.
  3. Ethan Reigns

    Ethan Reigns Scooby

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    2,788
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Reputation:
    6,819
    Sineya
    Kennedy was one of the best things to happen to Willow. In "The Killer in Me 7ABB13", when Amy's spell has Willow turning into Warren, the spell Amy cast is broken by Kennedy:

    WILLOW
    (avoiding)
    It was your fault. Slut. You
    tricked me, got me to forget.

    KENNEDY
    (realizing)
    Tara...
    WILLOW
    (raging)
    Shut up! Shut! Up! You do not get
    to say her name! Offering it up to
    whoever's there. Tricking me into
    kissing you...


    and later:

    WILLOW (cont'd)
    I'm being punished... I kissed you,
    just for a second, but it was just
    enough... I let her go. I didn't
    mean it.


    KENNEDY
    Kissing me didn't mean -
    WILLOW
    No, she was never gone, she was with
    me, we should have been forever...
    and I... I let her be dead. She's
    really dead.


    She's withdrawing into herself...
    WILLOW (cont'd)
    And I killed her.

    Kennedy takes a step to Willow, terrified
    KENNEDY
    Willow, no.
    WILLOW
    (looking up)
    Oh, baby, I'm so sorry... don't leave
    me again, baby, come back, I'm sorry,
    come back.

    KENNEDY
    Willow.

    Kennedy watches her, sees her slipping further away.
    KENNEDY (cont'd)
    I don't think you did anything wrong.
    This is just magic. And I think I'm
    figuring the whole magic thing out.
    She moves forward, toward Willow.

    KENNEDY (cont'd)
    It's just like fairy tales.
    She's almost there. Startled, Willow looks up. Afraid.
    WILLOW
    What are you doing?
    Kennedy gets right to Willow, looks at Willow compassionately, kindly.
    KENNEDY
    Bringing you back to life.
    She reaches out, takes Willow in her arms... and she KISSES Willow. Again.
    Willow struggles for a moment, but then, slowly, quietly, she melts into it, lets go.
    The gun falls to the grass.
    As the kiss lingers, we pull around, realize it's Willow, kissing Kennedy, crying -- Warren's gone.
    They break the kiss, Kennedy looks at Willow.

    Willow would have never recovered from the loss of Tara without Kennedy. Our next door neighbour in the first apartment my wife and I lived in was a woman whose fiancée had gone off to fight in WWI and never came back. She never wanted anyone else. And she lived alone for the rest of her life. Willow would have been exactly like that without Kennedy invading her space and forcing her to think about something else. There would have to be chemistry between them in order for this to work. As for "forcing herself into the group", the group was about to launch a kamikaze attack on the source of all evil in the world. I would demand to be part of the decision-making process if someone swept me into this kind of nonsense. Kennedy was also the only potential who didn't complain about what she was going up against or about the training regimen or about leaving her previous life behind, even though she left more behind than anyone else. I defy anyone who grew up in her circumstances to not think like her.

    I love the way Kennedy forced herself on Willow and invited herself into the group.
     
    Monkey Pants likes this.
  4. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,431
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    3,056
    @Ethan Reigns We are so going to disagree about this so much:p.

    I think though when you describe Kennedy and Willow's get together as "Kennedy invading her space" and "Kennedy forced herself on Willow", that says it all. Those are not positive things, those are not the way to write or develop a healthy relationship. Killow is Diet Spuffy. One person pursues another, not taking no for an answer, until the other person gives in (though in Spuffy's case, it was Buffy that initiated the sexual contact).

    The fact that Willow had such a visceral reaction to kissing Kennedy SHOWS that she wasn't ready to move on. She feels that she's betraying Tara by doing so. People who have moved on from the death of a loved one don't feel like they're betraying the deceased. There isn't a time limit on how long it takes to get over someone's death. Willow would move on in her own time not when Kennedy dictates she should move on.

    That scene is so full of bollocks. Willow has reacted badly to kissing Kennedy, she literally turned into Warren and is feeling that she's betrayed Tara. She is very emotional, she is crying, she's feeling guilty. And Kennedy's response is to kiss Willow again. Seriously?

    Willow shouldn't be made to let go of Tara, that's something she has to learn to do in her own time. Kennedy needed to back off.
     
    jellokitty likes this.
  5. Sorentia

    Sorentia Townie

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Reputation:
    0
    What suggested it was that Willow gave obvious signs that she was not interested in Kennedy and her flirting several times. However, Kennedy ignored this and kept on and on and on until Willow gave in and did what Kennedy wanted. They have a name for this. Sexual Harassment.
     
    DeadlyDuo likes this.
  6. Monkey Pants

    Monkey Pants Bored Now

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    1,200
    Black Thorn
    That didn't happen though. After a few minutes of being annoyed that Kennedy lied to get her on a date, Willow got over it and was clearly very into the flirting, and seemed to be into every part of them being together. Willow is not a victim. She never once acted like she didn't want it to happen. Sure, she had some reservations and knew she still had some growth and getting over Tara to do, but it was still her choice. She entered into a relationship willingly. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that's not what happened.
    The only time she ever pushed Kennedy away was when she was turning into Warren and freaking out, and Kennedy was literally the only one on the show who tried to help her. And she ended up saving her life.
     
    Blaze likes this.
  7. Priceless

    Priceless I didn't forget y'know

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    5,419
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    UK
    Reputation:
    4,248
    Willow's initial reaction to Kennedy's flirting was surprise. I think she was just low in confidence at this point and surprised that someone found her attractive and she wasn't sure how to handle it. Once Willow realised Kennedy was serious about her and it wasn't just empty flirting, she was happy to give Kennedy a chance.
     
    Monkey Pants and Blaze like this.
  8. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    5,546
    Likes Received:
    4,167
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Canada
    Reputation:
    15,467
    Black Thorn
    And what were those signs? Until the Killer in Me, Kennedy's flirting was evident enough, but it wasn't even clear if it was just Kennedy's personality, or if she was actually interested in Willow. I know straight girls that flirt more aggressively with other girls than what Kennedy did. Her worst comment was literally "careful, I sleep naked" (paraphrasing), and I highly doubt she actually slept naked. It wasn't a threat, it was a playful comment, and Willow was just surprised by it, not disgusted or repulsed by it. Other characters like Faith and Anya said and did some stuff that were a LOT more provocative than this.

    The next time we see Kennedy flirt with Willow is in the Killer in Me. I don't think it was right to lie about wanting to stay in Sunnydale to get some alone time with Willow, but notice how Willow actually chose to stay on the date on her own will. She also chose to talk about Tara on that date, and chose to keep engaging Kennedy. Kennedy didn't manipulate Willow beyond what she did to get her to go there (which yes, wasn't right), but once there Willow could have very well left and told Kennedy she wasn't interested. But during the "date", Willow didn't seem uncomfortable. It is clear that her and Kennedy had spent some time together outside of what we saw, as suggested by the things Kennedy knew about Willow. And once they got back home, Willow is the one that initiated the kiss, and then said something along the lines of "wow", clearly she enjoyed it.
     
  9. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,431
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    3,056
    I always interpreted Willow's reaction as that she didn't know how to react to Kennedy's flirting. It was unexpected and she was still grieving Tara. She didn't want to cause an issue when the end of the world was nigh and there were other more important things to do, however, Willow was not encouraging Kennedy and I think even if she'd said no and told Kennedy she wasn't over Tara yet, Kennedy would've still kept on at her until she gave in. Kennedy is very self-centred and only cares about what she wants regardless of the feelings of others.
     
    thetopher likes this.
  10. Monkey Pants

    Monkey Pants Bored Now

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    1,303
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    1,200
    Black Thorn
    You think Willow entered into a relationship with another person just because she didn't want to "cause an issue"? Willow hasn't been that afraid to speak her feelings since maybe early season 1. I really doubt she would do something she was uncomfortable with just because they were dealing with an apocalypse (something they deal with all the time). And Willow was encouraging Kennedy...being as how she kissed her. And you can't just assume what Kennedy would or would not do if Willow said no. However, the way you're describing her makes her sound like some kind of would be rapist, which from what we've seen on the show is certainly not true. And Kennedy obviously does care about Willow's feelings. She looks heartbroken when she sees her crying over Tara. She always tries to encourage her and make her feel good about herself. She was there for her when she had to do her last spell, despite the danger. She made her feel like she could let go and be herself again without going crazy or evil. Kennedy did a lot for Willow, and people are just bitter.
     
    Blaze: That sums up exactly how I feel
    Bluebird, Blaze, Ethan Reigns and 2 others like this.
  11. Last Watcher

    Last Watcher Tweed Icon

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,986
    Likes Received:
    2,046
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Teabag Central
    Reputation:
    2,533
    Sineya
    I guess you've also got to take into account that this was probably the first time she had encountered full on flirtation aimed at her......
    After all Oz was extremely laid back & took the subtle approach, & Tara was a friendship first that later developed into something more...
    Willow just wasn't used to people flirting with her....so no wonder she was a little bit surprised. Although she was a lot more confident in herself
    by s7, s1 Willow, who didn't understand why anyone would be interested in her, was still in there.....
     
    thetopher likes this.
  12. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,431
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    3,056
    Kennedy was the worst thing to happen to Willow. She was pushy, she was self-centred, she was just constantly on Willow's case to reciprocate. Willow was not ready to move on from Tara hence why she turned into Warren at the first kiss because she felt she was betraying Tara. People who have moved on don't feel like they're betraying their dead loved one. Also you have that scene where everyone is kicking Buffy out, Willow stands up to say something, hasn't even got a word out yet, and Kennedy ROUNDS on her and yells at her "Why are you always sticking up for her?!"

    The point is, why wouldn't Willow stick up for Buffy? They've been friends for 7 years and have been through an awful lot together. Somehow Kennedy seems to think that just because she's dating Willow, Willow should always be on her side regardless of Willow's own personal feelings on the matter.

    Until Killow became an item, Kennedy was presented as being very pushy towards Willow and very aggressive with the flirting, she was always making a comment of some kind. Willow was often presented as being somewhat uncomfortable with the attention. After they became an item, Willow was presented as more relaxed and just going along with it (there never seemed to be the depth of feeling she had with Tara or even Oz) whilst Kennedy came across as domineering, basically throwing her weight around because she was dating Willow and seemed to think this elevated her above the other potentials (See her bullying of Chloe which led to Chloe's suicide). This gives the impression that Kennedy just kept going at Willow until Willow eventually gave in.
     
    Zenseem likes this.
  13. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,495
    Likes Received:
    2,080
    Reputation:
    5,751
    Black Thorn
    I'm not a big fan of Kennedy but no way did she coerce Willow and no way is Willow such a goddamn pushover. Or that she would be in an actual relationship, just to keep the peace.
    Also the one instance in the argument, when Buffy is kicked out, isn't enough justification for me to imply she's a predator manipulator. I mean, do you think her behaviour was as bad as or worse than Spike's pursuit of Buffy in season 6?
     
    Blaze likes this.
  14. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,431
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    3,056
    Well, both Spike and Kennedy made suggestive comments to Buffy and Willow respectively. Both wouldn't let up on their pursuit. Spuffy gets the edge because of how unhealthy that relationship was and what went down in "Seeing Red". Comparing Killow to something worse doesn't mean Killow is good, just that it's not as bad as Spuffy. However, Spuffy was so extreme, it would be difficult to find something worse within the show. That is not an endorsement of Killow though, I can think of at least 5 relationships which are better than Killow.
     
  15. Ethan Reigns

    Ethan Reigns Scooby

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    2,788
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    Reputation:
    6,819
    Sineya
    Treat this as it was - an intervention.

    If Willow had not been open to the idea, she would have shot Kennedy down in a heartbeat. This is not mousy high-school Willow, this is the Willow who led the scoobies during Buffy's death, resurrected Buffy, descended into magic addiction and then overcame it (specifically in "Gone" where she used only non-magical means to help Buffy), flayed Warren alive then tried to end the world but was saved by love. She also showed in the past when she said "Everybody's getting spanked but me" that she had no problem playing rough if the benefits were there.

    Now this new girl was interested in Willow and protected Willow from the spell Amy had put on her. The regret Willow had was Kennedy made her forget about her grief for a couple of seconds and that changed her entire relationship with the grief itself - it was no longer in control and it was no longer her constant companion and friend. She missed the grief, strange as it may be, but it was all put in perspective - she had a first girlfriend who had been killed when they were both happy with each other but she could move on. Without Kennedy, Willow could never have moved on.
     
  16. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,431
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    3,056
    I still think Willow wasn't ready to move on and Kennedy just kept pushing until she got her way. However, if we were to break Killow down into three separate factors (Kennedy, Willow, and the pairing), the biggest sticking point for me is Kennedy. The issue isn't necessarily Willow moving on (even though it does seem a little to soon considering Tara only died at the end of season 6), it's who she's moving on with.

    I think Kennedy is a horrible character. Putting aside her persistent pursuit of Willow, even putting aside the scene where Buffy's being kicked out of her own house and Kennedy is throwing her weight around (because apparently dating Willow gives her the power to do that), the one scene that really really makes me hate Kennedy is her calling Chloe "Maggot" then forcing her to do pushups then turning around and being proud of the fact that she just humiliated a younger girl in front of the rest of the potentials. When the First can basically say "you contributed to this" WITHOUT lying, there is a problem. It annoys me how Kennedy is never called out on this. These young girls are most likely very scared about the fact that they are being hunted down and slaughtered just because they MIGHT be the next slayer, a gig they didn't even ask for. They are being worked into the ground training against a seemingly unbeatable enemy with the knowledge that they could definitely die hanging over their heads. The apocalypse is coming and it's coming for them. Chloe's "crime" was that she couldn't keep in time, she turned the wrong way, at worst it deserved a "Chloe, keep in time!" not a "Drop and give me 20 pushups maggot!"
     
    Zenseem likes this.
  17. brittles

    brittles Scooby

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    52
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    22
    Sineya
    I get that some people could say the same thing about Tara and Willow's relationship blooming so soon after her relationship with Oz ended. That being said Tara was introduced in a much more subtle way mostly because 1. it was a new venture into Willow realizing her true sexuality and 2. Tara had a much more introverted personality than Kennedy. It's hard for me to feel love for Kennedy because she does thrust herself into the group so aggressively and also because she is so different from Tara who became so loved by everyone. Even though the Will-Ken relationship begins 13 episodes after Tara's death it's still hard to see her giving the eye to someone new. Not saying I wanted her to be a depressed, self-pitying version of Willow the whole rest of the season but it would have been easier to accept Kennedy perhaps if she had a little more intro time. I just still miss Tara :( Also, Kennedy rubs me the wrong way at times. Sometimes I appreciate her commitment to working hard to defeat the First but most times I find her annoying and abrasive with an ego that needs deflating, quick.
     
    DeadlyDuo likes this.
  18. brittles

    brittles Scooby

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    52
    Gender:
    Female
    Reputation:
    22
    Sineya
    I can't stand Rona. I may like her even less than Kennedy. At least Kennedy tries to be useful in any given situation. Rona just stands around whining and complaining about everything in sight. Her character serves no purpose for me. She wants everyone else to take care of her. What a dud.
     
    DeadlyDuo and Zenseem like this.
  19. Puppet

    Puppet My ass is not pansy!

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    2,034
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Denmark
    Reputation:
    2,547
    Black Thorn
    I won't get into my disagreements about the rest of your post, everyone has their own opinions, but I would like to say that my vehement dislike of Kennedy has nothing to do with Tara. Or, for that matter, her relationship with Willow. For me, I don't like the person i.e. the character of Kennedy. Don't presume to know all of the fans reasonings for how they feel, stereotypes may exist but that doesn't mean everyone is like that.
     
  20. MarieVampSlayer

    MarieVampSlayer I’m the thing that monsters have nightmares about!

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2017
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    398
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Québec, Canada
    Reputation:
    127
    Sineya
    I always wondered about Kennedy and what was Joss intend with her character. We know that having another Tara would have been not really realistic as you can't get the same relationship twice but I always though that Kennedy wasn't the type of person Willow would be attracted to. If you forget her physical apparence, she has very little ressemblance to Willow's past love (Xander, Oz, Tara) and that always seemed odd to me. Maybe that was the intend but I still think they could have done a better job for Willow. I actually like Kennedy as a potential and a fighter but as Willow's love interest, not so much.
     
    Puppet likes this.