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I like the episode "First Date" how about you?

Discussion in 'Sunnydale Cemetery' started by cryptwarmer, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. Puppet

    Puppet My ass is not pansy!

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    Black Thorn
    Actually, I'm pretty sure it is canon that Wood was a pawn for the First, considering that the FE showed up wearing his mother's form and confirmed for him that Spike was the one that killed Nikki. FE was deliberately pushing him, hoping the outcome would be something like what Wood and Giles tried to do.
     
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  2. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    When Spike tackled Giles, Giles asked why Spike's chip didn't go off. Spike's chip was designed to stop him harming humans. What would happen if Spike tried to push someone out of the way of a speeding car? He's trying to SAVE them rather than HARM them, would his chip still go off?
     
  3. Priceless

    Priceless I didn't forget y'know

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    Yes I think it would. But Spike would weight the pain versus the reward. As in Fool For Love, he knew shooting Buffy would set the chip off and it'd hurt for a while, but Buffy would be dead for a lot longer
     
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  4. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    Far be it from me to make sense of a hokey plot device, but offhand I'd think that the chip would measure intent, in this case predatory violence. Apparently the vampire brain reacts when it attacks prey, which it shouldn't do if the intent is to save someone rather than harm them.

    That said, the chip was--impossibly (unless it's techno-magic), I should add (and if it were possible then the Initiative should've had even more accurate toys on bigger tools to detect demons)--able to tell if someone Spike was attacking was human or demon, and there's some question about Spike's mind set when he decided to test it by punching Tara. Again, hokey plot device, I shouldn't torment myself trying to figure out a logic that isn't there.
     
  5. TriBel

    TriBel Scooby

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    It's a turning point episode. I love it. It goes without saying that what follows is all IMO.:) I've realized I sometimes sound over assertive. It could be I'm a natural bully but I like to think it's enthusiasm (plus - at work I have to at least pretend I know what I'm talking about!).;)

    First - the conversation with Giles and Buffy about Spike - it cuts to the hardware store. This from the transcript:" Xander's standing around in a crowd of customers watching a green-aproned store employee cut a length of pipe with a huge power tool. He looks around and notices a pretty woman looking at the spools of rope on a display. Xander walks over to her, taking off his safety glasses". How Freudian can you get!!

    Second - The above is important because it follows from the Giles/Buffy talk. It's a power struggle (think of him as her surrogate father). At the end of the episode, she'll make her decision and replace him with Spike (the scene after they return from the hospital. Giles tells them to grow up and walks through the door on the right with his hands in his pockets - I think. He's wearing khaki coloured clothes - as is Spike we hear his footsteps. It cuts to the next scene - the footsteps bridge - Spike comes in - hands in pockets - through the same door Giles left by. She asks him to stay.

    Third - The scene on the landing. "You don't have to..." and he cuts her off! "Worry" makes sense. And they're exchanging pleasantries instead of saying what they think. Terrified to say or hear the wrong thing. (Priceless - if you're reading this - doors and stairs - going around corners not knowing what you'll meet). His face....aargh!

    Fourth - In the car - he's effectively invisible to them - they don't turn around and he's invisible in the mirror. But they're talking about him. The exchange of looks - I love looks in this episode. His face when she says "He works for me". Is this Crush revisited? In a car, "a d-date-...do you want it to be a date"? "Happens all the time when people work together" (I'm paraphrasing). Is this THEIR first date (I'm claiming it - and he didn't have to pay for the meal in the restaurant! Result!) - Obviously - the argument falls apart if I've got the wrong episode BUT it is - I think - asking us to look back.

    Fifth - She kills the demon. Does that head look like a child's head (demonic child)? Too late - I'm claiming it is. Why does the body shrink?

    Sixth - connections. She ignores Xander and goes to him. She touches him - they look again! There are gas pipes and a warning sign - there's rope on the floor (umbilicus)?

    Seventh - the looks at the end - each looking to the other for confirmation. I've decided it's like perpetual motion. Will somebody b***** say something please!

    Eighth - He's losing his resolve - "I'll go and find the Slayer". The relief on his face when he realises she's left her phone! Willow not sure of the code; Giles mistranslating. All feeds into the idea of mixed messages - uncertainty etc.

    There were obviously other things going on but they didn't register because Spike wasn't in them. What I did think went in Spike's favour was - he didn't try to manipulate her - did he? Giles did and Wood did. It feeds into the idea she trusts him. On the sofa - there's a cushion between them - does she not quite trust him or are the house and the people in it a barrier between them?

    Love this episode!!
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2017 ---
    The problem with Giles is - he doesn't want to admit he doesn't know everything - doesn't want to lose face and the things he's offering her could kill her. I think this feeds into a general ambivalence about his motives regarding Buffy - and may well mean that Spike's rant about "You used to be a big man" is correct. I LOVED the clock!
     
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