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I think other character needed to be killed off in Chosen?.

Benz

Potential
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Jul 25, 2016
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I feel it didit seemed enough of battle with only Amanda/Anya/Spike(Who come back to life not long after).

I think someone like Faith/Andrew/Wood/Rona/Kenndeny/VI/Cho-ann should been killed.

I can understand why didit want kill Core four or Dawn.
 

white avenger

white avenger
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Agreed. Given the seemingly overwhelming odds that Buffy and her team was facing, combined with the completely pathetic state of the Potentials' lack of training and the sad collection of weapons that they possessed, there should have been many more casualties. At least two of the defenders, Faith and Spike, were fighting bare handed, and several of the girls had nothing bot sharp pointed broom handles. Okay, they were all magically transformed into Slayers at the last moment, but that does not change the odds. There were literally hundreds, if not thousands, of superhuman ubervamps, plus a small army of Bringers being held ay bay by less than a couple of dozen humans. Okay, Buffy is a fantasy show, but disbelief can only be suspended to a finite degree.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
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Agreed. Given the seemingly overwhelming odds that Buffy and her team was facing, combined with the completely pathetic state of the Potentials' lack of training and the sad collection of weapons that they possessed, there should have been many more casualties. At least two of the defenders, Faith and Spike, were fighting bare handed, and several of the girls had nothing bot sharp pointed broom handles. Okay, they were all magically transformed into Slayers at the last moment, but that does not change the odds. There were literally hundreds, if not thousands, of superhuman ubervamps, plus a small army of Bringers being held ay bay by less than a couple of dozen humans. Okay, Buffy is a fantasy show, but disbelief can only be suspended to a finite degree.
Even Joss says Don't tell people that on the commentary about how easy it is to kill Uber Vamps in this episode to what a struggle it was previously.
Basically there video game level strength changed because the plot needed it to. No other reason
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
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While I have a ton of quibbles (along with major criticisms) about season 7, and do agree that they got off way too easy (especially for a plan so stupid), I can see why the first one called would be so much tougher. You don't send a grunt alone behind enemy lines, you send the elites (and presumably there was only enough blood for one), essentially a champion of evil, a slayer of Slayers. Those at the end were just the common grunts that would've been bullied, commanded, and perhaps even eaten at times by the first one before he was brought to go after Buffy and the Potentials.
 

white avenger

white avenger
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I can see why the first one called would be so much tougher. You don't send a grunt alone behind enemy lines, you send the elites (and presumably there was only enough blood for one), essentially a champion of evil, a slayer of Slayers. Those at the end were just the common grunts that would've been bullied, commanded, and perhaps even eaten at times by the first one before he was brought to go after Buffy and the Potentials.
But even accepting the fact that the first ubervamp was the equivalent of Captain America's super soldier character, and the rest were pretty much cannon fodder, and even allowing that each ane every Potential immediately received the accumulated skill, experience, and power of every Slayer who had gone before them, twenty or so Slayers would have been overwhelmed by several thousand grunts, or even the relative few who managed to get up to the ledge where the main fighting took place. And let's not forget, the people outside the hellmouth were just ordinary humans, and very few of those, against what had to be at least several dozen Bringers, and they were only armed with swords and axes. Overall, it was just too few good guys trying to contain too many bad guys.
 

Taake

Prophet of the Lord
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Black Thorn
I can see why they wanted to wrap the show up without any major character deaths (beyond Anya, and again Spike comes back so it doesn't really count) because none of the characters (except Spike and Anya) had really 'wrapped up' their stories as it was.

When Wesley dies at the end of s5 Ats it is sad but there is a sense of finality to his story, it could've gone on, but you also feel a certain satisfaction with his character's journey and ultimate end. At this point, only Spike's and Anya's journeys had that potential.

Any of the core four or Dawn would probably had been an outrage to fans because none of those deaths would've been "earned" storywise. They could've done something different with Giles, and he could've died, but as his and Buffy's relationship is at an all time low at this point it would've been horrible to kill him before any proper reconciliation between the two. Willow coming back from the dark side and learning how to handle magic again, only to die, would also have been very unsatisfying. Buffy's died already. Faith has barely been around so her death wouldn't have been very impactful overall or significant to the overarching story of the season. Dawn dying would've been too crushing for Buffy and it would've made her whole character little more than a plot point as they had only just started to develop her character beyond "is Buffy's sister". I suppose Xander could've died but that would've left the viewers with a ton of questions about how Willow especially, but also Buffy, would be handling his death.

Basically, Anya and Spike were the only central characters who's deaths would be emotionally impactful for the viewers, but not utterly emotionally destructive to the other characters. We know they'll mourn, and we know they'll heal (and in Spike's case we knew he'd come back), but we're not left wondering how they could possibly go on or personally feel robbed of a sense of finality to the character's journeys. (Even if Spike had died, his journey would've had a remarkable and emotional end)
 

DeadlyDuo

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I think someone like Faith/Andrew/Wood/Rona/Kenndeny/VI/Cho-ann should been killed.
Yes to all except Chao-ahn and possibly Vi.

I liked Chao-ahn, her scenes with Giles were amusing and I think they missed a couple of opportunities on using her. One could've been her saying something to Spike with his response of "Sorry, love. I don't speak Chinese" which echoes what he said to the Chinese slayer he killed (and also puts a nice contrast between soulless Spike and Souled Spike). The other is to have Dawn teaching Chao-ahn English so she can communicate with others. It would play nicely with Xander's "you're extraordinary" speech because Dawn would be helping others even if she's not doing it slayer style.


Those at the end were just the common grunts that would've been bullied, commanded, and perhaps even eaten at times by the first one before he was brought to go after Buffy and the Potentials.
I always thought the Turok Han would prey on other demons that unfortunately crossed their paths especially vampires. Right there they could've shown how dangerous the first was by having the other "evil" beings in Sunnydale running scared o even allying with Buffy against the first. As it was, we got told how bad the first was supposed to be yet all we were shown was it basically trolling people.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
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Yes to all except Chao-ahn and possibly Vi.

I liked Chao-ahn, her scenes with Giles were amusing and I think they missed a couple of opportunities on using her. One could've been her saying something to Spike with his response of "Sorry, love. I don't speak Chinese" which echoes what he said to the Chinese slayer he killed (and also puts a nice contrast between soulless Spike and Souled Spike). The other is to have Dawn teaching Chao-ahn English so she can communicate with others. It would play nicely with Xander's "you're extraordinary" speech because Dawn would be helping others even if she's not doing it slayer style.




I always thought the Turok Han would prey on other demons that unfortunately crossed their paths especially vampires. Right there they could've shown how dangerous the first was by having the other "evil" beings in Sunnydale running scared o even allying with Buffy against the first. As it was, we got told how bad the first was supposed to be yet all we were shown was it basically trolling people.
The writers only seemed to realise that during S7, which is why I'm guessing why Caleb got brought in last minute, as somone for Buffy to fight. Besides simply giving NF because Firefly got cancelled I mean.
 

DeadlyDuo

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The writers only seemed to realise that during S7, which is why I'm guessing why Caleb got brought in last minute, as somone for Buffy to fight. Besides simply giving NF because Firefly got cancelled I mean.
They should've found a way to either make the first corporeal or have given Buffy a way to hurt it somehow and thus kill it. The First should've been the first evil being, not the personification of evil other wise you've got to ask "is there a First Good?"
 

Spanky

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Aug 12, 2008
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Black Thorn
@one eyed chicklet Yup. In season two when it took the form of Jenny, she was touching and, if memory serves, caressing Angel. I think the other bloke might have touched him too. In S2 it was very corporeal.
 
nightshade
nightshade
That was season 3, in amends

Dora

Scooby
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Andrew as well for me , evil to Buffy S6 , killed jonathan S7 no story , should have gone
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
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They should've found a way to either make the first corporeal or have given Buffy a way to hurt it somehow and thus kill it. The First should've been the first evil being, not the personification of evil other wise you've got to ask "is there a First Good?"
Tbh I was never impressed with the First back in Amends. An evil ghost crab 🦀 that Buffy ie the writer, was openly mocking in that 1 and done episode. Now in S7 its deadly serious and we as the audience are supposed to take it as a season threat :confused:

The episodes all followed a pattern in S7 too. They'd be sitting around in Buffys house (budget saving for the finale) the First would show up, make a threat then leave. Insert cast member,.. would then say this is the biggest most dangerous threat of all time rinse repeat for the next episode.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
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@one eyed chicklet Yup. In season two when it took the form of Jenny, she was touching and, if memory serves, caressing Angel. I think the other bloke might have touched him too. In S2 it was very corporeal.
Touching or not touching a shape shifting crab does not make a good series long villain imo
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
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No, I disagree. The First always came off as a major threat, like, maybe not today, but at some point in the Future. "First Evil" always smelled of expy-Satan, and his modus operandi, that of tempting Angel, of demonstrating his worthlessness, and requiring the first direct intervention of the mysterious Powers that Be into the story, rather than just being something for Buffy and friends to hit harder, always seemed like it had potential, well above the Ghost of Christmas Past. That the execution of Season 7... wasn't that great, doesn't diminish the original appearance, at least in my mind. There is a reason why Sauron never makes an appearance in The Lord of the Rings, well, aside from the last time he left his tower, he lost a fight to Zelda and her pet dog, but that's besides the point.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
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No, I disagree. The First always came off as a major threat, like, maybe not today, but at some point in the Future. "First Evil" always smelled of expy-Satan, and his modus operandi, that of tempting Angel, of demonstrating his worthlessness, and requiring the first direct intervention of the mysterious Powers that Be into the story, rather than just being something for Buffy and friends to hit harder, always seemed like it had potential, well above the Ghost of Christmas Past. That the execution of Season 7... wasn't that great, doesn't diminish the original appearance, at least in my mind. There is a reason why Sauron never makes an appearance in The Lord of the Rings, well, aside from the last time he left his tower, he lost a fight to Zelda and her pet dog, but that's besides the point.
But the difference is Lord of the Rings is literature and Buffy is TV. It's why Sauron is able to come across as a major threat because the audience imagination, when they are reading it can magnify it. Whereas in Return of the King the Movie without that luxury, he's more or less just an evil Lighthouse.

Same issues with the First. Buffy and Co can go around saying what an evil threat it is in hushed tones but because it's not shown it really falls flat. Even more so when it does stuff that is deliberately counter to it's plans but we have to accept it because the plot says so
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
Lol Evil lighthouse.

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
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Sineya
The threat is spelled out clearly enough. When the number of evil beings exceeds the number of good beings, the First will become corporeal and will be able to enter into the soul of every person on Earth. It is only diminished by the similarity with "Big Trouble in Little China" where the villain becomes corporeal then within minutes is killed.
 
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