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I think other character needed to be killed off in Chosen?.

DeadlyDuo

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The threat is spelled out clearly enough. When the number of evil beings exceeds the number of good beings, the First will become corporeal and will be able to enter into the soul of every person on Earth.
Except we got nowhere near that point. The threat of the First was oversold because we never got to see the reason why it was being hyped as such. We neve got to see it enter souls. All we saw was it trolling people. Maybe if we'd seen Caleb as a good guy at first then the First gets its claws into him and he turns evil, then maybe the audience gets a glimpse of why the First is supposedly this big terrible thing that is the worst thing that Buffy has ever faced. Show don't tell is a thing for a reason. If claims are being made about a character, then it has to be backed up with evidence. This is something the show seemed to struggle with towards the end of the series.
 

Btvs fan

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Except we got nowhere near that point. The threat of the First was oversold because we never got to see the reason why it was being hyped as such. We neve got to see it enter souls. All we saw was it trolling people. Maybe if we'd seen Caleb as a good guy at first then the First gets its claws into him and he turns evil, then maybe the audience gets a glimpse of why the First is supposedly this big terrible thing that is the worst thing that Buffy has ever faced. Show don't tell is a thing for a reason. If claims are being made about a character, then it has to be backed up with evidence. This is something the show seemed to struggle with towards the end of the series.
If the Firsts Uber Vampire Army overruns the Earth and everyone is dead anyway, who will care if the First turns people evil, hell who will still be alive for it to turn 🧐🤔

You know what would've been an interesting ending, which I'm sure Joss was never thinking off but if when Buffy is stabbed the First enters her and takes over. So its First/Buffy who gets up and kills the Uber Vamps (she doesn't need them anymore) and the smile at the end is the First knowing it/she has won and is Corporeal 😏
 

DeadlyDuo

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If the Firsts Uber Vampire Army overruns the Earth and everyone is dead anyway, who will care if the First turns people evil, hell who will still be alive for it to turn 🧐🤔

You know what would've been an interesting ending, which I'm sure Joss was never thinking off but if when Buffy is stabbed the First enters her and takes over. So its First/Buffy who gets up and kills the Uber Vamps (she doesn't need them anymore) and the smile at the end is the First knowing it/she has won and is Corporeal 😏
Bit of a downer ending. However, if that had happened during the middle of the season and possessed Buffy took them to the vineyard to be slaughtered and then the mutiny happened as a result of the First trying to divide and conquer then that would've been good. It could move from person to person. So it's in Buffy when she takes them to the vineyard, then it moves into Wood during the mutiny and Buffy has no clue why everyone is suddenly turning on her.
 

thrasherpix

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On my first watch, I actually did assume that the reason for the mind boggling stupidity, idiotic things said, and out of character moments was the First affecting them. (To an extent that was shown, like the cops going full on evil, for example, even making it hard for Willow to use magic on them as the First has a powerful magical influence of its own, though apparently an unconscious one. Also, the cult of kids that become Bringers, IIRC...) When Buffy got thrown out of her own house I actually backed it up to rewatch from before because it made no sense to me, and then shrugged, figuring magic was involved (Amy was still out there, probably serving the First who promised her power and revenge).

But nope. Just everyone involved with the show exhausted with Buffy and wanting it over with a few grand moments shoved in for closure (but not TOO much closure, had more cash to milk from that cow). Even the first viewing caused my suspension of disbelief to falter, though I convinced myself there'd be an explanation for it later, and even had my theories, but it never panned out. The second rewatch was just unbearable, and it was an act of will to watch it again for yet a third time with others seeing it for the first time. It has its moments, but overall...I still own the season but I wouldn't be surprised if I never watch it again.
 

slayer730

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Honestly, I think Dawn would have been ideal to kill. She had grown into a much likable character by that point so it would have been a shock that people probably felt and she had enough importance for it to have some pay off
 
one eyed chicklet
one eyed chicklet
Disagree, I would have still wanted it to end with Buffy smiling - I don't think that would happen with Dawn dead.

GreyWalker1958

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Andrew- He was just there. Plus if Joss was afraid of the "Kill Your Closet Gays bit, then maybe he and Marti shouldn't have killed off Tara at all (plus Jonathan who really was more kinder to Buffy while the WGAF brother of Tucker Welles kept shouting "Kill her!") Hell, even if he was at Wolfram and Hart as a receptionist instead of Harmony he'd still be just there.... Still baffled why making up the Immortal stuff to Angel & Spike was supposed to be funny when it only makes himself a right tit.

Kennedy- too much arrogance and the worst kind of brownnoser. She only loved Willow for being submissive while also for her god tier power. Her S10 appearance with Deepscan crew makes her all the more horrible to where it reaffirms why I feel she should've died instead of Amanda

Wood: He was never going to be at peace knowing he'd never avenge his mother (and Buffy prevented it) so him going out swinging would've been better for him than a minor text message cameo in S8's No Future.

Rona: Like, Wood, we don't really see her ever again and her being referenced repeatedly was a bit much as we never got to see her interactions with Simone leading to her pawning her off to Andrew in S8.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Andrew- He was just there. Plus if Joss was afraid of the "Kill Your Closet Gays bit, then maybe he and Marti shouldn't have killed off Tara at all (plus Jonathan who really was more kinder to Buffy while the WGAF brother of Tucker Welles kept shouting "Kill her!") Hell, even if he was at Wolfram and Hart as a receptionist instead of Harmony he'd still be just there.... Still baffled why making up the Immortal stuff to Angel & Spike was supposed to be funny when it only makes himself a right tit.

Kennedy- too much arrogance and the worst kind of brownnoser. She only loved Willow for being submissive while also for her god tier power. Her S10 appearance with Deepscan crew makes her all the more horrible to where it reaffirms why I feel she should've died instead of Amanda

Wood: He was never going to be at peace knowing he'd never avenge his mother (and Buffy prevented it) so him going out swinging would've been better for him than a minor text message cameo in S8's No Future.

Rona: Like, Wood, we don't really see her ever again and her being referenced repeatedly was a bit much as we never got to see her interactions with Simone leading to her pawning her off to Andrew in S8.
I completely agree. Kennedy should've been eaten by Gnarl, followed by Rona

I really dislike Wood (and the Boom comics make me dislike him even more).

The only scenes I like of Andrew in Season 7 is when he's interacting as with the First disguised as Warren and Jonathan. The bit about the microwave clock and the "Don't think about Babe" are amusing. However I completely agree that he was just there and the season wouldn't suffer from him not being there.
 

GreyWalker1958

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I completely agree. Kennedy should've been eaten by Gnarl, followed by Rona

I really dislike Wood (and the Boom comics make me dislike him even more).

The only scenes I like of Andrew in Season 7 is when he's interacting as with the First disguised as Warren and Jonathan. The bit about the microwave clock and the "Don't think about Babe" are amusing. However I completely agree that he was just there and the season wouldn't suffer from him not being there.
#Facts. A Principal who happens to be a self appointed hunter like one Charles Gunn could've worked better had they not tied him to the slayer Spike killed in '77.

As for the current Boom canon, I feel he's wayy to early (same w/ Anya, Gunn, Fred, and Lorne). Belliare and Mora should've least held him off til at least when they either introduced Faith or have him come in UC Sunnydale taking Riley's place as the rebound post-Angel.
 

DeadlyDuo

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#Facts. A Principal who happens to be a self appointed hunter like one Charles Gunn could've worked better had they not tied him to the slayer Spike killed in '77.
I didn't mind him being related to Nikki (the season 5 one was so much better than the season 7 one) but it would've worked better if Spike had still been soulless. As it stands, the audience is clearly meant to side with Spike because he has a soul so is "different" from how he was before. If Spike was soulless, then he is still the "same" guy that killed Nikki so Wood would have a bit more justification for trying to kill him. It muddies the water more and isn't so clear cut.

Also I dislike how he initially showed a romantic interest in Buffy but then switched to Faith and stabbed Buffy in the back just because she wouldn't let him kill Spike.

As for the current Boom canon, I feel he's wayy to early (same w/ Anya, Gunn, Fred, and Lorne). Belliare and Mora should've least held him off til at least when they either introduced Faith or have him come in UC Sunnydale taking Riley's place as the rebound post-Angel.
The artwork is awful after the first few issues. Xander looks like and old man, Willow has a tendency to look plain weird and slightly psychotic, Drusilla is drawn hideously when she's in vamp face and Wood was is a massive jerk. They don't even feel like they resemble the proper characters in any way.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Seven potentials survived the fight, plus six people we actually cared about. With Andrew, about 14 people surviving, most of them were shown to be in pretty bad shape. I assume most of the characters had a Studio hold on them at some point in production, while UPN and the WB figured out how they were interested in continuing the series. Like, even if UPN is marginally interested in a Dawn series, the Studio tells you Dawn must survive, and even if the Network hasn't said anything about it for half a year, you still can't kill Dawn, because you really want a Faith Series, and you want to have a Dawn backup in case negotiations fail during production and you want Dawn to absorb the sunk costs. So, actors who outright weren't interested in another series (Anya), or were already signed to existing Mutant Enemy productions (Spike) were the ones to die on-screen. Also, let's give Joss the benefit of the doubt here. Of course he would kill as many characters as he could. "Life is hopeless, and your choices mean squat" is kind of his mantra. Or something.
 

GreyWalker1958

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I didn't mind him being related to Nikki (the season 5 one was so much better than the season 7 one) but it would've worked better if Spike had still been soulless. As it stands, the audience is clearly meant to side with Spike because he has a soul so is "different" from how he was before. If Spike was soulless, then he is still the "same" guy that killed Nikki so Wood would have a bit more justification for trying to kill him. It muddies the water more and isn't so clear cut.
Come to think of it, it did feel like pint size rehash of Angel & Holtz (only replace Sanjan with Giles and a pregnant Darla for Buffy)

Also I dislike how he initially showed a romantic interest in Buffy but then switched to Faith and stabbed Buffy in the back just because she wouldn't let him kill Spike.
Only for Faith to ditch him a year and a half later.



The artwork is awful after the first few issues. Xander looks like and old man, Willow has a tendency to look plain weird and slightly psychotic, Drusilla is drawn hideously when she's in vamp face and Wood was is a massive jerk. They don't even feel like they resemble the proper characters in any way.
And Cordy as an eco warrior. Not sure how that wilk work as in fiction, there's a fine line between doing right and having things go the way of Samantha Jones* or Danny Phantom's Sam Manson.

*the Doctor Who 8th Doctor novel companion, not Kim Catrall 😄
 

DeadlyDuo

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Only for Faith to ditch him a year and a half later.
That's still a year and a half longer than she should've put up with him.

And Cordy as an eco warrior.
Cordy and Drusilla don't even feel remotely like their show counteparts, they're in name only. The worst aspect of the Boom comics, alongside the bastardisation of Drusilla is that the Scoobies don't even feel like friends. I really dislike Willow and I find it ridiculous that she goes from slagging off Xander one minute to refusing to leave his side the next.
 

GreyWalker1958

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That's still a year and a half longer than she should've put up with him.



Cordy and Drusilla don't even feel remotely like their show counteparts, they're in name only. The worst aspect of the Boom comics, alongside the bastardisation of Drusilla is that the Scoobies don't even feel like friends. I really dislike Willow and I find it ridiculous that she goes from slagging off Xander one minute to refusing to leave his side the next.
Not gonna lie, kinda wish OC (Original Canon) Willow was that way whenever Xander went on his 'Lets gang up on Buffy' warpath. Otherwise, I concur
 

VaderSpike24

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@one eyed chicklet Yup. In season two when it took the form of Jenny, she was touching and, if memory serves, caressing Angel. I think the other bloke might have touched him too. In S2 it was very corporeal.
Pretty sure that was a mistake. It was never meant to be corporeal (It touched Spike as Drusilla in Season 7 as well, but that was clearly another goof up). The goal of The First is to be corporeal for the 1st time by having evil overwhelm the good in the world.
 

nightshade

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Black Thorn
I've taken a bunch of posts out of this thread to keep this one on topic. It was an interesting discussion that needed it's own thread
 

DeepBlueJoy

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Two of the partners/exes of our core died in the last episode, who were major characters in their own right.

How was that NOT enough pain and loss? As TV shows go, it had a pretty downer message. Save the world, lose everything that matters. That ended up the opposite of the original message - Buffy the slayer who broke away from the tragic, always alone, no life tradition. By season seven, everyone adult has lost a partner, all have lost futures, and their homes, home town, even the graves of their dead. How much more do they need to lose to make it "more real"? They barely survived. Buffy was gravely wounded and she "got even more girls killed" (probably how she would feel).

The season as a whole sucked, but the end seemed pretty real and quite tragic enough to me.

Andrew- He was just there. Plus if Joss was afraid of the "Kill Your Closet Gays bit, then maybe he and Marti shouldn't have killed off Tara at all (plus Jonathan who really was more kinder to Buffy while the WGAF brother of Tucker Welles kept shouting "Kill her!") Hell, even if he was at Wolfram and Hart as a receptionist instead of Harmony he'd still be just there.... Still baffled why making up the Immortal stuff to Angel & Spike was supposed to be funny when it only makes himself a right tit.

Kennedy- too much arrogance and the worst kind of brownnoser. She only loved Willow for being submissive while also for her god tier power. Her S10 appearance with Deepscan crew makes her all the more horrible to where it reaffirms why I feel she should've died instead of Amanda

Wood: He was never going to be at peace knowing he'd never avenge his mother (and Buffy prevented it) so him going out swinging would've been better for him than a minor text message cameo in S8's No Future.

Rona: Like, Wood, we don't really see her ever again and her being referenced repeatedly was a bit much as we never got to see her interactions with Simone leading to her pawning her off to Andrew in S8.
So it's kill your gays and blacks then! Ok. No. Not OK.

Funny how often I see this in fanfic though. Instantly, the series becomes lily white and "nice and straight". Ugh! And those deaths are not to serve the narrative, but to get rid of those "we" don't like. (It *is* ok to have any characters die to serve the story, but not as cheap plot devices and not ALL of the blacks and gays) but here you list the ONLY blacks with major roles and the lesbian and whatever Andrew was (but unlikely to be straight). Other than Willow that is everyone not straight and white.

Not everyone hated those characters, btw.

Well, i dont like Kennedy. But i would have settled for her not being a love interest. And not dead.

I would have preferred Jonathan to Andrew, but he was needed comic relief.

I like Rona. Actually i liked her a lot more than Kennedy and she read as possibly lesbian. Maybe she could have been the gf! I wish she had been fleshed out more.

I really liked Wood until he was "Firsted" - he was smart and funny, fought like a slayer and was kind of hot. I liked that he and Buffy went on a date. I would not have hated them ending up happy ever after.

Frankly, he was right to HATE his mother's murderer, though *not* to try to kill him after his soul *and* during the apocalypse. His behavior actually made sense, however, because he lost his mum.

It would have served Spike right in a certain tragic ironic sense, had he lost Buffy to Wood - (he hurt both Buffy and Wood) and yes, i love my Spuffy, but that would have been interesting and messy, and we would really have wondered at Wood's motivations! Giles was simply a betrayer of his slayer. I really hated how season 7 was written, but endings are hard.

But killing Wood and Rona and Andrew and Kennedy? After losing Kendra, Tara and Jonathan?

No. Aren't we tired of all this death?
 
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