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I thought Fred died...

fauxindigo

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When and how did Fred come back into the picture? Sorry I'm not caught up on Seasons 10 & 11 but I remember Wesley saying in AtS S5 hat Freds soul was destroyed; not only did Illyria take over Fred's body but destroyed her soul. How could Fred come back if her soul-her very essence- didn't exist anymore? Was Wesley simply not correct about what happened to Fred?
 

Fool for Buffy

I'm just being a big nerd again
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Sineya
Comics is magic.
Haha unfortunately this kinda sums it up. There's hardly an explanation that makes sense, but I'll give you what they tried to say. Basically after a new seed of magic is planted in the deeper well, the laws of magic "reset" allowing for Fred and Illyria to coexist in the same body, which has Fred's restored in tact soul for reasons unbeknownst to us. They cannot exist without each other or seperate. I don't like it, but I'm living with it nonetheless.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Nothing about the consumption of Fred's soul made much sense to begin with. It's the Soul, being Immortal and Indestructible is pretty much what the soul is. Making it some sort of advanced possession, like Illyria is holding it, must hold it to keep the body, and cannot be forced to release it as long as she lives, and Wes in his grief misunderstood the situation is a possible answer. But changing the rules of magic? Really?
 

white avenger

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I read somewhere that Joss had planned to bring Fred back in a televised Season 6, actually dividing Fred and Illyria into two separate characters, giving Amy an actual double role, so the plan to bring her back has been there all this time.

As for the fact that Fred was supposed to have been destroyed completely, body and soul, when Illyria took possession of her body, most likely the writers have either forgotten, or hope that the fans have.
 

Priceless

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Because Fred has a soul I think it's inevitable that at some point (if the comics continue) that she and Illyria will separate. If they continue with the Angel/Illyria 'thing' (whatever it is) I think it will be necessary to separate the two
 

fauxindigo

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Thanks!
Now what is up with Angel and Illyria?! I'm happy Buffy is ending up with Spike but really Angel? I guess he's already been with slayer, vampires, werewolf and who knows what else over the years, why not a demon??
 

white avenger

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Thanks!
Now what is up with Angel and Illyria?! I'm happy Buffy is ending up with Spike but really Angel? I guess he's already been with slayer, vampires,
werewolf and who knows what else over the years, why not a demon??
Technically, Illyria is a hellgod, not a demon. I'm not sure just what the difference is, other than she is, apparently, a supreme being from a different dimension/reality, like Glory and, possibly, the First Evil. Obviously, Illyria and Glory were far more powerful than any demon or Slayer, though, once Illyria's powers were diminished during Season 5, that might no longer apply to her. Irregardless, there is a definite distinction made between common demons and hellgods in the Buffyverse.
 

nmcil12

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Because Fred has a soul I think it's inevitable that at some point (if the comics continue) that she and Illyria will separate. If they continue with the Angel/Illyria 'thing' (whatever it is) I think it will be necessary to separate the two
I wish they would take this path and just be done with it - to me it's total nonsense that Fred has any kind of control and power over Illyria - I don't like at all that Fred was return plus, don't know about the rest you but I have found the return of Fred not particularly interesting. Perhaps the absolute separation of Fred and Illyria would make a difference.

Regarding Illyria - I was under the impression that Illyria was one of the Original Life Forces here in this dimension - what has changed with this status. This was how she, I thought, was described in the series. These God like life forms existed here.

However, way back in BS8 the "Origins" premise was introduced where this planet was created as a prison maybe this is what explains Illyria and The Old Ones. Wish this "Origins" premise had not been dropped.
 
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Priceless

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I wish they would take this path and just be done with it - to me it's total nonsense that Fred has any kind of control and power over Illyria - I don't like at all that Fred was return plus, don't know about the rest you but I have found the return of Fred not particularly interesting. Perhaps the absolute separation of Fred and Illyria would make a difference.
I don't find Fred/Illyria very intersting either and I wish she hadn't been bought back. I'm hoping the last two issues of the season help make sense of it all.
 

spikenbuffy

"Why can't I stay"
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I don't believe this, the fact that Fred should have come back in ATS after her death in AHITW is bullshit, it's a retcon like others said. When does Joss Whedon revealed that he was going to bring back Fred, 2004 when ATS was cancelled or when he decided to make comics in I don't know 2007-2008 ?
If he was going to bring back Fred originally when he thought it would have a ATS S6 in 2004, well okay I don't know maybe originally he wanted to have a triangle Illyria, Fred & Wesley planned IF he would have a S6 of ATS in 2004. I heard I don't know if it's true that Smile Time was when he knew that Angel wouldn't have a S6 and that S5 was the last season of ATS maybe before he knew that he would have made Fred come back after her death. But when he knew that ATS S5 wasn't going to be renewed and made the episodes AHITW and Shells with the soul is destroyed thing then NO WAY that Fred was going to be alive after AHITW & Shells, those two episodes makes it clear for me that Fred is DEAD and isn't going to come back, the way the last scene with Fred in Shells saying goodbye to her parents in Texas and leaving for LA is a SHE' S GONE and she's not going to come back to life. Plus Wesley is dead in the end of ATS.
 

AndrewCrossett

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Sineya
The people who told Angel & Co. that Fred's soul was destroyed had a vested interest in them not trying to get her back. They lied, because they're evil.

If I had the power to reverse one single plot point in the history of the Buffy/Angelverse, the destruction of Fred's soul would have been it. So I for one am glad they did it.

You could get a whole story arc out of Fred and Illyria learning to come to terms with being in the same body.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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I'm sure Joss had plans to bring Fred back. I have faith, it would matter, too. But frankly, there are no fantasy writters these days, just science fiction writters who failed science.
 

thrasherpix

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I'd see Fred growing a clone or other body for Illyria (with her penchant for weird science in a world of the weird) which Illyria would happily take as it doesn't stink with essence of soul.

That is, that's how I'd see Fred dealing with it and Illyria going along with it. I don't expect any kind of sense or continuity with the comics which very quickly marked themselves as AU (Alternate Universe, like the Wishverse) to me.
 
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