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If you were Buffy, would you had staked Angelus?

Discussion in 'Season 2' started by Joshua, May 27, 2013.

  1. Joshua

    Joshua Huge Spuffy Fan!

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    Ok throughout the later part of season 2, Buffy has been looking for ways to restore Angel's soul but after all Angelus' has done

    killing a classmate
    killing Jenny Calendar
    torturing Giles
    taunting Buffy and her Mom
    taunting the scooby gang
    etc.

    would you had just staked him then and there forget about restoring his soul
     
  2. HisMrs

    HisMrs The Walking BED

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    Sineya
    Absolutely. After Angelus killed Jenny, Buffy should have staked him. Of course it would have been hard and horrible, but it was something that needed to be done at that point.

    However!!!!! I'm soooo glad she didn't. If Buffy had staked Angel, we would never have gotten the beautiful Bangel moments in Season 3, and we wouldn't have gotten the spinoff show. So I'm very glad Buffy did not stake Angelus. :)
     
    white avenger: No comment about the Bangel moments, but a Faith spinoff could have worked just as well, with almost the same story line as Angel's series.
    thetopher: *sigh* ^ Faith spinoff. Yep, that could've been really something
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  3. EVIL UU

    EVIL UU Scooby

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    Personally, I'd stake Angel in "Welcome to the Hellmouth". He's a vampire, I'm a vampire slayer, do the maths.
     
    EffieT1: lol
    Ethan Reigns: It would have made life simpler.
    NightLady: your argument is flawless :)
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  4. Robb Stark

    Robb Stark King in the North

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    Sineya
    Well, as a point of interest (and with the wonderful benefit of hindsight), if Buffy had staked Angelus then Angel never would have been around for his own series which means that the world would have ended once or twice. So with that in mind alone, then no, she shouldn't have.

    However, as Buffy couldn't possibly have known that ahead of time, it's a tough question. Would I have done it? Being totally honest, I probably wouldn't have. I know that isn't the "right" answer, but it's an honest one. Buffy actually doesn't spend a tremendous amount of time searching for a way to restore Angel's soul in S2. She doesn't even discover the possibility of it until pretty late in the game. Prior to that she only has one, maybe two, real shots to stake Angelus and obviously hesitates long enough for him to escape.

    I just don't know if I'd be able to end someone I felt that strongly about, that I loved that much, even if it was just a shell of them, as long as the possibility remained that the real them could return. I think that would be excruciatingly hard.
     
    Blaze: Summed up everything I wanted to say. Love is not logical.
  5. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    Given what Angelus was capable of, and how he had set up a personal vendetta against Buffy and her friends, plus, of course, that little ending the world stunt, I don't see how Buffy would have been able to avoid dusting Angelus. Even beyond her duty, there was simple self defense, and the defense of her closest friends and family. The mystery is, why did she wait so long in doing it in the actual story line? Sure, Joss wrote it that way, but realistically, every life that Angelus took, every evil scheme that Angelus pulled off after the showdown in the mall, when she had him beaten, but just couldn't go through with it, was indirectly her responsibility, something that, as far as I can recall was never addressed, either then or in later seasons.

    It might be said that Buffy was holding onto the hope that Angel could somehow be restored, but if so, that hope was killing people, people who she could, SHOULD, have been saving. Even Angel himself, if he could have had any say in the matter, would have urged her to do it, and do it as quickly as possible, thereby keeping Angelus' evil to a minimum.
     
    NightLady: this!
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  6. Wild At Heart

    Wild At Heart the moon lights his way

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    I think she really should've done it at the end of Innocence. But how could she? I don't think I could do it either, especially not that quickly. But I would know that someone was going to get killed if I didn't but I would hope that somehow I could keep that from happening which I'm sure she did too. It's easy to say what someone should do, it's hard to be them & actually have to make the decision.
     
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  7. SlayerPrincess

    SlayerPrincess Potential

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    I mean like its easy to sit here and say oh yea I would have staked him. But think about it, if that was your man or your girl you might hesitate when it comes down to it too. I know I probley would.
     
  8. Cheese Slices

    Cheese Slices Puppy Rescuer

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    Well, to be honest, I wouldn't have fallen in love with him in the first place, so...
    Now, to answer the question, I think I would have killed him, since I tend to prioritize reason over emotions. That being said, I totally get why Buffy couldn't , and find it hard to lay any blame on her.
     
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  9. white avenger

    white avenger white avenger

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    Probably a major factor in Buffy's inability to stake Angelus had to do with her age and relative inexperience with being the Slayer. By Season 7, given the same circumstances, I think that she would find it just as difficult to do, but by that time she would have been strong enough to do her duty.
     
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  10. Robb Stark

    Robb Stark King in the North

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    Sineya
    That's an interesting comment. On the one hand, yes, Buffy is a very different and darker person by S7. She makes it very clear to Giles that if presented with the same situation at the end of S5, she would have acted differently and killed Dawn. However, Spike under control of The First starts killing and attacking people. Buffy is smart enough to recognize the circumstances, that what's happening isn't Spike's fault and that there's a solution there. By this point with Angel, with Willow having restored his soul twice now, if he'd lost his soul I think Buffy would have set out to bring it back, not kill him.
     
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  11. Himiko

    Himiko Potential

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    I like to think that I would have killed him at the end of Innocence, when I had the chance. As Buffy should have done- she had the opportunity, she knows he is evil, and that he will kill given the chance. As, indeed, he does- Theresa (did I get the name right?), Jenny, all the nameless, faceless people that he and Drusilla kill on their hunts, etc.

    Buffy made the wrong choice in not staking Angel, I don't think any of us would argue that. But it's very easy to see why she made the choice. She isn't a killing machine, certainly not at this point, she is a girl with a duty forced upon her, that she tries to fulfill, but often struggles with. Her choices at this time of the series aren't always the noblest (though she tends to get there in the end- fighting the Master at the end of S1, killing Angel at the end of S2, etc.), but they are very human, and understandable because of it. Buffy couldn't bring herself to kill Angelus at the first chance, even though she knows that she should. By the end of the season she has reached the stage where she is willing and able to kill Angelus, even to kill Angel, who she loves, to prevent the end of the world.

    So, whilst I would like to say that I would kill Angel, I also admit that we are all human. And if it were the person I had loved - in some way, at least- it might well make me hesitate.
     
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  12. LadyDevil

    LadyDevil Townie

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    I mean it is so easy to say " I would kill him because he is so bad..." When you are infatuated it is hard to listen to your brain. She can't because she was in love.
     
  13. slayer6

    slayer6 Potential

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    I personally don't know. I think Buffy knew that she should stake Angelus but she simply could not bring herself to do it. She obviously had strong feelings for him and shared an extremely intimate night with him taking her virginity. That was bound to leave its mark on her even with it turning out the way that it did. I think that Buffy was also able to look further into the situation knowing that this was not Angel and that had to make it even harder. I think Buffy still had hope that Angel would somehow return and things would go back to normal. And then when it came down to him or the world she took care of it. As it turns out it all worked out for the best so she did the right thing in my opinion.
     
  14. Mostly Filler

    Mostly Filler Townie

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    Obviously in some ways it would've sorted things out a lot earlier had Buffy been able to, but that ignores a lot of other factors@

    - Without Angelus being all over Dru, Spike no longer has a catalyst that causes him to turn and work with Buffy, leaving those two free to wreak havoc...and we know Drusilla also wanted the world destroyed.

    - Buffy is still in love with Angel, and something like that doesn't go away quickly. The emotional turmoil she'd have gone through every time she fought Angelus meant she probably wasn't mentally strong enough to do it until Becoming, because at that point it was sacrifice Angel or the entire Earth. It's easy to say you'd do that from behind a keyboard, but how many of you could kill a loved one without some turmoil if they were a threat to mankind

    - Once they realise Angelus can be re-souled, i'd argue that's the most sensible option they have. Angel has proven an incredibly valuable ally multiple times pre-Surprise, someone with experience and knowledge of the demon world, as well as the best fighter in the gang bar Buffy. Given we see in Season 3 how difficult the Scoobies find hunting and slaying without an experienced hand you have to say Angel is absolutely missed, especially when the group is also sans Buffy.

    So overall, there'd be a host of new problems from Spike and Dru even with Angelus gone, we know now how traumatic slaying Angel would be for Buffy, and the Scoobies would lose a vital ally. So no, I think re-ensouling him was the right decision.
     
  15. Kean

    Kean Professional Bangel

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    Sineya
    I don't think Buffy was physically capable of killing Angelus before Becoming. She paid for the hesitancy (many other people in many other ways) by having to do something far worse: send Angel to Hell.

    In Innocence Buffy tries to find some part of Angel in Angelus. She had to learn that he was gone. Angelus almost had to prove to her that Angel was dead and gone to her. That sounds pretty shitty when people were dying but she hadn't given up hope on saving him until that very last episode. Someone else could have tried to kill him, but Buffy, being who she is, couldn't have done it.
     
  16. Robb Stark

    Robb Stark King in the North

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    Sineya
    I just know for me, that if I were in a similar situation to Buffy in S2, I don't think I'd be able to stake the girl I was in love without, at the very least, exploring every possible angle of trying to get her her soul back. I just don't think I could.

    That's also important to remember when reflecting on Buffy during that period. No one knew what in the hell had happened. It's hardly a character flaw of Buffy's to try everything within her power to restore Angel's soul.
     
    Kean:
  17. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    It's really easy for me to say that I would stake him... now whether I'd do it or not if I was in the situation, that's the hard part.

    Once faced with the situation, I'm really not sure if I could kill the person I love. Surely I'd try to do everything I can to save them if I thought it was do-able, so it's a really tough one.
     
  18. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    Nope, couldn't do it- 17 yr old me couldn't anyway- not if I'd really loved them.

    If you really, truly loved somebody then you'd do whatever you could to save them, surely?
    Even if the cost is very high.
    Buffy hesitates, people lose their lives, and in the end she has to pay for that by condemning the person she loves to a eternity of torment. That's pretty harsh.:(
     
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  19. Ann

    Ann Nee chatwuann Bangelite

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    No. I would not be able to look at the face of the man I love and drive that stake home. Buffy couldn't either until there was no other choice and she had to do it to deactivate Acathla. At that point it was sacrificing him and their love to deactivate Acathla and save the world. All hope was gone at that point or so Buffy thought. If Buffy was supposed to stake Angel it would have happened that way it didn't so she was not supposed to. We all know the writer and producers of the show and Joss had other plans for the character and actor.
     
  20. SiegePerilous02

    SiegePerilous02 Potential

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    Intellectually, I would know that I should. Like other people have said, it's easy to say that from an outside perspective, but not so easy in practice. It was wrong for Buffy to spare him in "Innocence" (though he probably wished he was dead after that kick lol) but I can understand why she found it so difficult.
     
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