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Is Buffy Safe?

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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I wasn't quite sure where to put this thread, if it's in the wrong area please move it to where it should be.

Two things have happened today:

1. Two British shows from the noughties (Little Britain and Come Fly With Me) have been removed from streaming services due to being classed as "racist".
2. Christopher Columbus statues are being torn down by BLM protesters.

What's this got to do with Buffy you may ask? Pangs.

In Pangs, we have this exchange.


E4 (television channel in the UK) is currently doing a rerun of all Buffy episodes and eventually they will get to Pangs.

In the current age of "this is racist, that is racist, and if you disagree, you're racist!", is Buffy about to come under fire for the Pangs episode where the Scooby gang (white people) have to kill a native american spirit? Either the episode would have to be skipped (meaning that Spike would suddenly appear with the scoobies with no explanation) or they air it and the show will come under fire especially for Spike's attitude (though Spike's response may also be used as a response by people fed up with the BLM movement) as a "reflection of the systemic racism" supposedly affecting the world. Add in the fact that Buffy isn't a "diverse" show because the main cast are all white, is Buffy going to be next on the BLM hit list?
 

Angel6

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To be honest I don’t think anything that’s not actively progressive is safe. The JK Rowling trans controversies, the CrossFit controversy. I feel that a small minority are creating somewhat of a witch hunt mentality and I honestly think anything can happen.
 

Spanky

Scooby
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Black Thorn
Gone with the Wind is gone too. As is the staple reality show Cops. (I didn't even know they were making new episodes of that)
 
emspace
emspace
I know, I went to binge watch it on Pluto TV, and was bummed. It was such a train wreck.

Spanky

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I don't see how Pangs could be offensive when the characters themselves argue over how to treat the native Americans.
Because it's furthering negative stereotypes and turning their genocide into nothing more than a joke.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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Because it's furthering negative stereotypes and turning their genocide into nothing more than a joke.
Honestly, I don't see it that way. Most stereotypes have a basis in fact; whether they're considered negative or not depends upon the person.

There were Indian curses upon those who stole their land and decimated their people. I think Pangs did a good job in presenting this, and having Hus (the spirit warrior) exact vengeance was interesting. Plus, the discussion that Buffy, Willow, and Giles had regarding Thanksgiving was thoughtful. But Spike was the one who simply told it like it was. Their differing views on this topic were fun to listen to.

Anyway, I think Pangs was more about Angel creeping around. And Xander's "funny syphilis." 😂

 

Angel6

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If it just came down to Pangs you would think they could just take that episode down, or edit it.
 

TriBel

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Spike : You won. All right? You came in and you killed them and you took their land. That's what conquering nations do. It's what caesar did, and he's not going around saying, "I came, I conquered, I felt really bad about it." The history of the world isn't people making friends. You had better weapons, and you massacred them. End of story.
Buffy : Well, I think the spaniards actually did a lot of-- Not that I don't like spaniards.
Spike : Listen to you. How you gonna fight anyone with that attitude?
Willow : We don't wanna fight anyone.
Buffy : I just wanna have thanksgiving.
Spike : Heh heh. Yeah...Good luck.
Willow : If we could talk to him--
Spike : You exterminated his race. What could you possibly say that would make him feel better? It's kill or be killed here. Take your bloody pick.
Xander : Maybe it's the syphilis talking, but... Some of that made sense.

I don't see what's wrong with Spike's speech. It's hardly celebrating colonialism. It's pragmatic. It's speaking truth to power.
"You won. All right? You came in and you killed them and you took their land." True
"The history of the world isn't people making friends". Sounds rather Marxist to me (at least Materialism as opposed to Idealism).
"You had better weapons, and you massacred them". True.
"End of story". Actually - that's a lie. History and story have the same root word. The story of physical oppression will be replaced by ideological oppression. Fukuyama suggested "history" ended in the 90s. I think it's probably been kick-started.
"You exterminated his race. What could you possibly say that would make him feel better?" Which is kinda where we are at the moment.

As Xander says: "Some of that made sense". What sense you get from it depends on which side of the fence you're standing. It cleverly lays bare the grounds of both sides. However, if you're not careful it aligns you with eugenicists because you're taking a "might is right/survival of the fittest" stance. "That's what conquering nations do. It's what Caesar did...How you gonna fight anyone with that attitude?" Is society progressive? Do we live in a state of nature or culture? Darwin's theories are equally applicable to left and right but, personally, I prefer Huxley's argument to Galton's/Spencer's. For me Spike is saying is "stop making excuses". "Stop dressing it up in rhetoric...own it". I'd listen to Spike speak at a BLM protest. But I can also get the opposite from it.

Yeah...I think BtVS is probably safe. Get rid of shows/films/books etc. that aren't diverse and you'll rid the Western world of about 95% of its cultural production (I made that figure up).

Blackface is different. There's a long history of blackface being used to oppress and stereotype African Americans so I can see why they're being cautious about Little Britain. There's nothing positive to be said about blackface. It isn't used to empower a character (as the device of whiteface often does). Edit: Netflix have just pulled League of Gentlemen and The Mighty Boosh because of blackface.
Unsure how much to believe from Whedon honestly.
Same here but the last of the anti-miscegenation laws weren't repealed until the late 1960s (I think as a result of Loving v Virginia) so I can understand the reluctance.

Syphilis - the jury seems to be out on whether Europeans took the disease with them OR brought it back from America. I think this is interesting in itself because it kinda mirrors the contradiction in Spike's argument. So - joke or no joke, it's making a point.
 
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Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
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Sineya
Third thing that has happened recently: GWTW was removed from HBO Max for being "racist"...
I watched it a few years ago and even wrote on a "rate the last film you watched" thread a small review, it's not racist and it's well made, but it's also very long (4 hours).

Buffy was created by Joss Whedon, a liberal anti-Trump atheist.
The Buffyverse has an LGBT couple, a strong female lead, lots of anti-religion talk and Angel also has a black main character, I don't think that it's going to be in any danger anytime soon.

In fact, I think that watching Buffy and Angel would be very beneficial for them :)
 

Taake

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I’ve watched a few reactions and from what I can tell viewers don’t really mind Spike’s speech as much as the general portrayal of Native Americans and the tone of the plot. If Buffy is ”safe”, I don’t know, but it may be that younger audiences have come to expect something more or different from the way these things see handled and find the tone of Pangs uncomfortable/poor, even if they enjoy parts of it as a whole. The general tone of the episode shows that Buffy is of a different time and that though Pangs isn’t the worst piece of TV ever, it certainly isn’t the best and definitely could’ve been better in many ways.

I think what saves it is the discussions in the episode.
 
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
I agree.

Angel6

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God I didn’t realise the Boosh had been pulled too. Now that is mad. Those two are two of the most liberal people/creators you could wish to meet.
 

Taake

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God I didn’t realise the Boosh had been pulled too. Now that is mad. Those two are two of the most liberal people/creators you could wish to meet.
But liberal creator does not = liberal show?. Since it is a collaboration with lots of people and networks. And liberal people aren’t beyond mistakes (I remember when JossWhedon got into trouble for waxing poetically about the word nubile on Twitter, among other things)
 

Angel6

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But liberal creator does not = liberal show?. Since it is a collaboration with lots of people and networks. And liberal people aren’t beyond mistakes (I remember when JossWhedon got into trouble for waxing poetically about the word nubile on Twitter, among other things)
I’m very familiar with the show, there is absolutely nothing any sane person would deem as offensive in there. It’s delightful.
 

Spanky

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I’m very familiar with the show, there is absolutely nothing any sane person would deem as offensive in there. It’s delightful.
So if people find parts of it offensive they are insane?
 
Angel6
Angel6
Classic you.
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