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Is it possible Cordelia would have taken the Wolfram & Hart offer?

Cohen

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The original season 4 plan is one of the biggest mysteries we'll never know and theres so many questions about it. If Cordelia did go evil as planned then what would be her motivation to do that? Also what would the end of that season look like if they had that supposed sword battle scene between Angel and Cordelia? Would Angel have really killed her? The fate of Cordelia after season 4 always seemed like they were moving toward shifting the show drastically especially with her character.
I don’t think she would have “birthed” jasmine. I think jasmine WOULD be her. The beginnings of the season were still putting her as Jasmine. Which is why she came back with Amnesia, and she was awoken as Jasmine. I think the difference would have been that she wouldn’t have been pregnant. Instead she was going to battle Angel. I also think she would have been doing more work to dismantle the Angel Investigations crew. You’re right though, this would have all played out in a way that would have completely turned her character away from how we knew her to be. Maybe she would have began the apocalypse and season 5 would have originally shown the post-apocalypse, like the original plan for 6?
 

slayer730

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I don’t think she would have “birthed” jasmine. I think jasmine WOULD be her. The beginnings of the season were still putting her as Jasmine. Which is why she came back with Amnesia, and she was awoken as Jasmine. I think the difference would have been that she wouldn’t have been pregnant. Instead she was going to battle Angel. I also think she would have been doing more work to dismantle the Angel Investigations crew. You’re right though, this would have all played out in a way that would have completely turned her character away from how we knew her to be. Maybe she would have began the apocalypse and season 5 would have originally shown the post-apocalypse, like the original plan for 6?
You're saying Cordelia would be possessed or come back with amnesia and then awaken with a complete personality change where she would act as this holy figure trying to spread world peace? If its the latter, I think a lot of people would still question why that drastic change would take place.
 

Cohen

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You're saying Cordelia would be possessed or come back with amnesia and then awaken with a complete personality change where she would act as this holy figure trying to spread world peace? If its the latter, I think a lot of people would still question why that drastic change would take place.
No, possessed by Jasmine, her shell used, very similar to how the vampire took over Angel’s shell when he was turned. But of course this wouldn’t be revealed until late Season 4, where Angel tries to do a few different things to save “Cordelia”. But it ends with a sword fight. Maybe even Cordy is “killed” but HP Cordy comes back to Angel.
 

slayer730

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No, possessed by Jasmine, her shell used, very similar to how the vampire took over Angel’s shell when he was turned. But of course this wouldn’t be revealed until late Season 4, where Angel tries to do a few different things to save “Cordelia”. But it ends with a sword fight. Maybe even Cordy is “killed” but HP Cordy comes back to Angel.
So essentially events would play out as normal, just without the Connor sex/pregnancy and possessed Cordelia's motivation would more than likely be doing a bunch of things that appeared evil or morally grey to the audience in order to create a vessel thats strong enough to bring upon Jasmine's true form.
 

GreyWalker1958

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I think she would...but she wouldn't be her normal self. She'd be traumatized, and betrayed by the Powers. In fact, if she was still having visions, she might make it part of the deal that her connection be severed. Given everything she'd been through even before Jasmine, I can see why.

To make it work story-wise, I'd have to see her cold after all that she'd been put through, and questioning her role in the greater scheme of things, if it matters, and if Wolfram & Hart really are the lesser evil (or at least honest when it comes to their ethics with their employees, unlike the Higher Powers). She'd work through it by the end, but without the visions she'd be as convinced of how corrupt Angel had gotten as well (and might be interesting to hear her comment to the others on the difference between Corrupt Angel mad with power vs Angelus the demonic artist of terror and pain).

Though I have a hard time seeing her in the final battle...and I'd absolutely despised it beyond my ability to express if Angel made HER the sacrifice to the Black Thorn instead. Perhaps she'd retain some "quasi-demon" aspects from her time as Vision Girl that would allow her to use powerful magic (and she showed she could use a sword)...and perhaps she'd die, giving the same smile of relief that Buffy did in The Gift, or maybe she'd live and finally, for the first time in that season, have her old spark back with sword in hand (that's actually kinda awesome to me) when Angel says, "Let's Go to work."


Now if Cordy was instead still gung ho to do good, perhaps more determined than ever (though after what she'd been through I just don't see it), she'd do it as an infiltrator, like a spy for the Higher Powers. However, the Senior Partners would surely have ways to subvert or hinder any such visions. Hell, they'd (or more specifically, those they called in, I guess as a consultant) did so twice already, both times really extreme. She might also have horrific visions of Gunn in Hell. And how would her visions affect the matter of Illyria?

Frankly, I prefer the former.
Plus Vamp!Gunn would've done to her what we saw him do to Betta George much to Angel's horror and disarray
 

GreyWalker1958

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I would have liked to see Joss’ original plan for season 4. Pregnant Cordy/baby daddy Conner was horrible and disgusting. The whole situation was poorly handled. I was fine with the evil Cordy storyline but without the Cordy/Conner sex and pregnancy. That said, had she survived the ordeal, I still think Cordy would have a tough time being coaxed by W&H. They literally put her through hell for the better part of 4 years. Let’s not forget it was W&H behind her vision coma in the season 1 finale, Angel’s spiral in season 2, and her vision hell in season 3. These aren’t small happenings in her life. Each of these affected her deeply. Like another post mentioned, Cordy was very much the heart of the group. I don’t think she would have been as easily swayed as some have claimed here. She wasn’t a saint, but she wasn’t an idiot either.
In a way, how S4 played our was Joss' own private Avengers (Volume 1) #200*.


*See Linkara's AT4W episode on that comic and hoo boy did that one immediately remind me of that arc. For a Marvel buff, Joss should've realized this while rage writing
 

Btvs fan

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The original season 4 plan is one of the biggest mysteries we'll never know and theres so many questions about it. If Cordelia did go evil as planned then what would be her motivation to do that? Also what would the end of that season look like if they had that supposed sword battle scene between Angel and Cordelia? Would Angel have really killed her? The fate of Cordelia after season 4 always seemed like they were moving toward shifting the show drastically especially with her character.
It's not a mystery they've said it. It was going to be a Becoming style ending with Angel forced to fight Evil Cordy and sacrifice her.

This will be a real unpopular opinion but I'm kind of glad that didn't happen. Charisma was awful as evil Cordy and her character had kind of peaked and was pretty stale by then. The show seemed to work better without her imo.

Tbh once Greenwalt left in S3 it seemed lkke6 the writing was on the wall for Cordelia and Charisma. I'm also glad that Joss lied to her to get her back for Your Welcome. Otherwise she might not have come back if she knew she was going to be killed off
 

DagonSphere

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I think the changes made to Angel's S4 storyline were the following ones:
- Cordelia paired off with Connor to lighten Charisma's workload and make her schedule more flexible (away from David, who is in every scene, and not in as many group scenes)
- The evil pregnancy
- The entire Jasmine plot

Other than that it would probably have played out similarly, with Cordy returning with some sort of amnesia and then becoming the big bad, with us only realising halfway through the season that she is possessed. And then cut to swords fight at the end, where Angel has to sacrifice her. I personally think that plot would not have been better, I am not sure if I would want to see Cordelia and Angel fight, I would have preferred to see Cordelia become more of a hero and kick more evil butts in light of her becoming a demon in season three. The original ending also seems to suggest that it was always the plan to reduce Charisma's presence on the show and cut her out. Tim Minear once said in this podcast interview that making Cordelia a higher being was the worst thing they did; and that the "evil thing" kind of worked, yet that the "amnesia" and "coma"-plots were indicative that something about the character was not working anymore.

Tbh once Greenwalt left in S3 it seemed lkke6 the writing was on the wall for Cordelia and Charisma. I'm also glad that Joss lied to her to get her back for Your Welcome. Otherwise she might not have come back if she knew she was going to be killed off
I think Joss did not lie to her, I just think they had not broken the episode yet when they made her the offer and once they went into the writer's room and kept thinking about where they would leave her, they came up with killing her off.

I must say, I'm grateful to Charisma that she returned to the show even though things went so sour; and she has said many times that she did it only for the fans. Ironically, You're Welcome is also one of her favorite episodes, along with "Birthday".
 

xii22loop

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The original season 4 plan is one of the biggest mysteries we'll never know and theres so many questions about it. If Cordelia did go evil as planned then what would be her motivation to do that? Also what would the end of that season look like if they had that supposed sword battle scene between Angel and Cordelia? Would Angel have really killed her? The fate of Cordelia after season 4 always seemed like they were moving toward shifting the show drastically especially with her character.
I have wondered the same question when thinking of all these things. Would Angel have killed her? Or whatever would have happened to her would it have still led to them joining Wolfram & hart?
 
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If Cordy had got in the limo, then she wouldn't have any choice about whether or not to take them up on their offer - because Angel makes the choice for them all when he has Connor changed. I actually find them all going in the first place to be ooc, so - whilst I think it would be ooc for Cordy to go and see what was on offer, she would have done because the rest of them did - that was pure plot device.

As she was the person with the visions and therefore essentially Angel's liaison with the PTB, then perhaps she could have become his liaison with The Senior Partners - with the bonus extra of no Eve. Plus she could have been the head of the psychics department. Lorne tends to do that stuff - and it fits his character - but it has nothing to do with the entertainment department. Whereas Cordy could have been in charge of mystic, seers and connections to the great beyond - which includes liaising.

Angel only got a s5 on the promise of including Spike, so I think it's fair to say Spike would have been there. Maybe they would have rewritten his story line so that it was Cordelia who brought him back - not to mess with Angel, but because she thought they needed another champion for the cause, and here was one trapped in an artefact the company owned. Or she could have released him by accident - like a genie in a bottle. When Spike tries to leave the city he always pops back to the law firm, it wouldn't be too hard to write that the locket itself materialised back inside Wolfram and Hart once it had been used.

They would maybe have to cut the Lindsey story line from a time perspective, if they were including Cordy but honestly ... apart from the fun of having Lindsey back, it's not ever really well defined what he's doing there his motivations are just 'I don't like Angel, I wanna be the boss of Wolfram and Hart' and undoes his leaving in s2. In retrospect it feels fitting he was there because he he was there right at the beginning and was there right at the end ... but they didn't know s5 was going to be the last season at the time. They brought him because they wanted to bring him in, not because it was thematically resonant for the last season or anything - so with Cordelia in the mix, they might have changed that up.
 

slayer730

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If Cordy had got in the limo, then she wouldn't have any choice about whether or not to take them up on their offer - because Angel makes the choice for them all when he has Connor changed. I actually find them all going in the first place to be ooc, so - whilst I think it would be ooc for Cordy to go and see what was on offer, she would have done because the rest of them did - that was pure plot device.

As she was the person with the visions and therefore essentially Angel's liaison with the PTB, then perhaps she could have become his liaison with The Senior Partners - with the bonus extra of no Eve. Plus she could have been the head of the psychics department. Lorne tends to do that stuff - and it fits his character - but it has nothing to do with the entertainment department. Whereas Cordy could have been in charge of mystic, seers and connections to the great beyond - which includes liaising.

Angel only got a s5 on the promise of including Spike, so I think it's fair to say Spike would have been there. Maybe they would have rewritten his story line so that it was Cordelia who brought him back - not to mess with Angel, but because she thought they needed another champion for the cause, and here was one trapped in an artefact the company owned. Or she could have released him by accident - like a genie in a bottle. When Spike tries to leave the city he always pops back to the law firm, it wouldn't be too hard to write that the locket itself materialised back inside Wolfram and Hart once it had been used.

They would maybe have to cut the Lindsey story line from a time perspective, if they were including Cordy but honestly ... apart from the fun of having Lindsey back, it's not ever really well defined what he's doing there his motivations are just 'I don't like Angel, I wanna be the boss of Wolfram and Hart' and undoes his leaving in s2. In retrospect it feels fitting he was there because he he was there right at the beginning and was there right at the end ... but they didn't know s5 was going to be the last season at the time. They brought him because they wanted to bring him in, not because it was thematically resonant for the last season or anything - so with Cordelia in the mix, they might have changed that up.
Reflecting on it I dont think it was that much out of character given the circumstances of the season. TPTB ( or a singular power Jasmine rather) had hijacked one of their friends bodies and put them in a coma and caused the apocalypse. It was essentially a situation going with the devil they didn't know because the ones they did betrayed their trust pretty bad. I wish that point would have been emphasized a bit more by Lilah in addition to how she sold it to them.

The Lindsey story line was a bit confusing and upon further rewatches I don't really get why he came back other than for shock value. With that being said I think they could have came up with something else as an antagonist. maybe utilize that space for introducing the circle of the black thorn earlier and making them a little more prominent. Is there any other character other than Lindsey that could come back as a good twist to make Angel doubt himself though?
 

garfan

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she definitely would not have taken the offer

I swear by the end the Buffyverse was running on fumes. All they had was was killing off popular characters and betrayal arcs which was terrible for them because the new characters they were creating were not catching on at all with fans
 
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