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Jeez Buff over Identify much

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#22
I thought the episode was clear that James triggered the pain in Buffy's soul over Angel. Of course that's going to color how she perceives it (not by some objective standard, she doesn't even seem to care that innocents will die just so James can continue to be punished, because once again she can't think rationally when it's a matter close to her heart).

As for the philosophical question of if James deserved redemption, I consider it irrelevant, personally, especially as Buffy approached it from the perspective of her own tortured soul than from any objective (or religious) standard.
 

Zenseem

Evil, skanky and kinda gay
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Black Thorn
#23
If Buffy hadn't projected herself onto James I wouldn't have though he deserved to be redeemed, but is it really our place to say who is worthy or not of redemption? My point is that every single person has their own moral perspective, thus saying someone is beyond redemption is related to your own moral beliefs.

Through the course of history a lot a people have done a shit-ton of questionable decisions that ended up with catastrophes and they are to blame, but most people that are given power or even love can go batshit when they don't have control over it anymore. As long as there are human being, there will be someone who couldn't keep their shit together and someone thing they are superior for not going through that same path again, but you know what: they're the same, one just happened to freak out a little more.



Another thing I'd like to point out is how hypocrit Buffy can be sometimes. She stated that James didn't deserve forgiveness but fought with anyone who tried to blame Spike for things he had actually done and that were a gazillion times worse just because they were frenemies with benefits. I know Buffy thought James didn't deserve to be forgiven because she felt like she didn't deserve it either, but still... pretty contradictory to me.
 
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#24
Another thing I'd like to point out is how hypocrit Buffy can be sometimes. She stated that James didn't deserve forgiveness but fought with anyone who tried to blame Spike for things he had actually done and that were a gazillion times worse just because they were frenemies with benefits. I know Buffy thought James didn't deserve to be forgiven because she felt like she didn't deserve it either, but still... pretty contradictory to me.
Yes, but this was before s7. You know before everyone got a brain transplant and threw their morals out the window.
 
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#25
Episode : I only have eyes for you.

Love this episode by the way.. But can we go a little more in depth about why buffy felt James didn't deserve forgiveness. Was it that she felt angel didn't deserve to be forgiven or was she blaming herself for what happened to angel
I think Buffy was angry at herself for what happened with Angel and because she could see similarities between herself and James, she projected all her anger at herself onto him.

Therefore I think suicide is unforgivable.
I disagree. Suicide is an act of desperation, when it feels like there is no other way out of a situation. It does not come from rational thought because it completely overrides the natural instinct of survival. Suicide/attempted suicide is a cry for help, it is the last resort to escape a situation that feels inescapable. Unfortunately sometimes that desperately needed help comes far too late. Asking for help is never as easy as it seems it should be and in many ways therein lies the trap. If someone feels they can't ask for help then they continue to suffer in silence, and that is when rationality goes out of the window and desperation begins to cloud judgement.

The saying "carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders" isn't some made up bullshit, when you have a problem you can't tell anybody about, you do literally feel the weight of it. "A problem shared is a problem halved" is another saying that's true, you do feel as if "a weight has been lifted" when you tell someone what's wrong.

People self-harm because they feel it gives them control when they're caught in a situation where they feel they have no control. It's unhealthy and harmful, but logic comes second to desperation. Nobody just wakes up one day and decides to kill themselves, to reach those kind of thoughts takes an extended period of time, it may appear sudden to the outside world because there has been no sign of it but it has been coming for a while. Judging someone for feeling suicidal or attempting suicide and calling it "unforgivable" and "a sin" does absolutely nothing to help the situation. In times like that, people need compassion and someone to talk to, to help lift that weight off their shoulders.

A moment of despair can kill, words of compassion can save a life.
 
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
This is so important.

SlayerFest

Wiley Dairy Gnome
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Black Thorn
#26
Episode : I only have eyes for you.

Love this episode by the way.. But can we go a little more in depth about why buffy felt James didn't deserve forgiveness. Was it that she felt angel didn't deserve to be forgiven or was she blaming herself for what happened to angel
It was personal for her...with the Angel/Angelus situation. I do feel like she kind of felt like she killed him in a way. Or she identified too closely with James' pain and it made her kind of disgusted with herself...plus she was struggling with the fact that she'd most likely have to kill Angelus soon.
 
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