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Less Joss Involvement

nightshade

I don't understand your definition of good news
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Black Thorn
Would you have preferred it if Joss was less involved in Buffy and Angel? The start of Angel he wasn't around much, and the end of Buffy he wasn't around much, did you prefer that or should he have been there throughout both shows?
 

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
If his name is on it, I am watching it. I consider the whedonverse to include other whedons but often refer to the lot as the Jossverse.

In my opinion Firefly was the best of the lot - so how much was he involved in that?
 

Taake

Raise your hand if... EW
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Less for Angel, more for Buffy.

I still think Joss is better than most, but it felt like David Greenwalt had more genuine passion and interest for Angel. I’m sure Joss cared, but he felt more engaged with characters like Fred and Faith, rather than Angel, Wes or Gunn.

I get that he felt a bit done with Buffy after s5, Kripke similarly drew back from Supernatural after five seasons, and when you think about it, five years is a long time to spend on a story. But I do think Buffy suffered from his abscence, he wasn’t gone entirely of course, but there was a definite shift once his involvement lessened.

(Joss s5: We’re giving Buffy a sister!
Joss s6: Byeeeee, you deal with that now!
Writers: Oh, rats. Buffy has a sister now. What can we do with her? Oh let’s just have her cry in a corner somewhere. Michelle T is cute enough for people to like her even if she’s pointless and treated like a child despite being pretty much the same age as Buffy was in s1. Personality and agency? She needs none of that. Just let her pout and sulk until the final episode)
 

Ethan Reigns

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He should have been involved more in the planning so he wouldn't have been needed as much in the execution.

There should have been a series bible that at least showed an agreed map of Sunnydale and not the place with docks for getting rid of pieces of Acathla being shown later as having a forest at the beginning of Season 6 shown later as the place with an airport capable of landing a DC-10 when Giles left then shown at the end as a landlocked desert town with no airport. Similarly, characters should be well-defined so the writers do not write OOC episodes (which was a worse problem on Angel).

Then he would have had the time to rewrite idiotic scenes like Riley stabbing Spike with a plastic stake. One of the best quotes I ever heard about managing a project was from the CEO of Northrop Aviation:

"Most programs that failed didn't fail because they rose up against the lions of adversity and were defeated in battle. Most programs failed when they were eaten by ducks."
 

Dora

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I think by the end of S5 he had told his Buffy Story , similarly with, Angel although I believe he had nowhere near the input on Angel had he had with Buffy
He had issues with SMG and allowed MN to much input in S6 with her sick sex and dark depression,
Firefly was his baby when it was cancelled i get the impression he did not care about the other two very much as I have said I think he had told his Buffy Story..... from the gift on, Buffy I think has mostly been a cash cow for him
 

Cohen

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I would agree that Buffy suffered from Joss’ lack of involvement. While he penned the musical in season 6, the rest was largely up to MN. And the quality definitely suffered. Every other season has a cohesive story. This one was floundered and didn’t quite know what story to tell other than “adulting sucks”. Season 7 seemed planned-ish, until the end which seemed like a rushed wrap up. There seemed to be a trajectory, and I really think had there been an 8th season, it would have been a more complete story. But Joss had definitely stepped out by that point.

I don’t think Joss’ involvement helped or hurt Angel. There were great moments in season 5, even though half the season felt lost. There were great moments in season 4, despite Joss’ issues with Charisma and the ick-factor that was Cordy/Conner. I would agree Greenwalt seemed to have a better idea of who Angel was, and that helped the first two seasons become so epic. Most of the season 3 story was okay, minus the love triangles but I think that was more Joss than Greenwalt, so I guess his involvement DID hurt Angel.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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As an Showrunner, no, I think the seasons he did are heads and shoulders above 6 & 7. As a Creative Consultant/Bungie Boss who was still trying to be involved but didn't have the time to do so and kept Season 7 and most seasons of Angel in some sort of creative stasis? Yes, I think if he was less involved in the seasons he wasn't supposed to be involved in, the writters would have had to find their own creative voice instead of trying to implement Joss's.
 

WillowFromBuffy

Buffering...
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May 11, 2019
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I think it was good to have Joss oversee Buffy. And it is not as though he left it all to some nobody. Marti helped him build the franchise since S2, and he was deeply involved in the two later seasons.

The problem with AtS was that there were too many cooks, and then all three cooks got bored at the same time and left the kitchen.
 
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