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Lindsey's Death

Joan the Vampire Slayer

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I know we've discussed Lindsey's death a lot on here, but I'd like to hear some fresh opinions from the new members.

His death is a topic fans tend to feel pretty strongly about.

In one of the season 5 featurettes, Joss says that Lindsey's death was one of his favorite things they did on the show.

What do you think about this? Personally, I strongly disagree. Rather, it was one of my least favorite things about the season. Having Lorne kill Lindsey was one of the lowest things Angel ever did, imo.
 

Lyri

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In one of the season 5 featurettes, Joss says that Lindsey's death was one of his favorite things they did on the show.
Because he'd been trying to kill Lindsey since S2 and Christian always told him he wouldn't do the episode. They day they got cancelled, Chris was on set with DB and went to DB's trailer after the news broke to see if he was okay (DB is CK's best friend) he ran into Joss on the way and Chris asked Joss what he was going to do now. Joss' reply was 'Bleeping kill you.' LOL. (He told this, and many other Angel related stories, at The Vampire Ball convention in November)

It's no secret that I'm not a huge fan of the way Lindsey was killed. I knew he wouldn't make it out of the show alive, but I did think that he deserved better than to be shot by a lower member of the team. He was such a huge thorn in Angel's side for so long, I think they deserved to have that epic, all-out, last-man-standing-fight we were all so looking forward too.
 

Kean

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He was such a huge thorn in Angel's side for so long, I think they deserved to have that epic, all-out, last-man-standing-fight we were all so looking forward too.
He did basically get that fight in Your Welcome, though. The thing with Lindsey though (And I'm hiding from you and LM as I say this) is that Angel was the biggest thorn in his side, but Angel's enemies and battles were much bigger than Lindsey McDonald.

His death was much like what Lindsey was to Angel; an afterthought.
 
Taake
Taake
completely agree
S
SlayerFae
Nice wording on the whole thing. Lindsey definitely got his dues in You're Welcome
Taaroko
Taaroko
Awesomely put.

Username

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I don't feel that strongly about it, but I'm torned cos I think Lindsey being killed by someone like Lorne was awesome, Lindsey when he's dying says that Angel's the one who should kill him because he matters and by having Lorne do it, it kinda cheapens Lindsey's role, I thought that was awesome, but at the same time, Angel having Lorne do it was also really low, so idk, I'm just torned about it.
 

MRNewman

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First - Lorne doing it was awesome. Second - Lindsay's death was the final backhanded slap from Angel to Lindsay. With this action he said, "You're not even worth my time to kill you."

I liked it.
 
S
SlayerFae
I also TOTALLY agree with you too. Definitely Angel's last "this is what you mean to me" when Lindsey spent so much time and energy on hating him.
Spanish Flame
Spanish Flame
Completely. That's what is the end for me. Kuddos!

Kean

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Because he'd been trying to kill Lindsey since S2 and Christian always told him he wouldn't do the episode. They day they got cancelled, Chris was on set with DB and went to DB's trailer after the news broke to see if he was okay (DB is CK's best friend) he ran into Joss on the way and Chris asked Joss what he was going to do now. Joss' reply was 'Bleeping kill you.' LOL. (He told this, and many other Angel related stories, at The Vampire Ball convention in November)
Just re-reading this and it is cracking me up. He literally refused to be fired! Love it.
 

Lyri

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Just re-reading this and it is cracking me up. He literally refused to be fired! Love it.
Yep, approximately four other characters died because Joss wanted Lindsey killed, the episodes were written that way, and Christian just said 'Nope, not doing it.' So the writers had to re-write the episodes and kill someone else instead.

The ones he can remember that were supposed to be him were Lilah, Gavin and Linwood. He says there was another one, but he couldn't remember.

I guess this is a weird topic for me, because I've been there when both Chris and Andy (RIP) were talking about this scene and how much they hated doing it. In November, Chris was really moved when he started talking about it, and telling us how painful and upsetting the whole scene was for Andy to shoot, which in turn upset him. I guess I have too much real life knowledge of the events surrounding it now to have an unbiased opinion.

Chris and Andy hated it, therefor, I hate it. Sorry, lol.
 
Spanish Flame
Spanish Flame
I never liked the way it happened but knowing this fact makes me feel awful for Christian and late Andy.

TheVoid68

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I believe that when Angel assassinated a human being who was perfectly capable of redemption was when he stopped being a true hero. When did "help the helpless" turn into "shoot the unarmed and unsuspecting"? If Angel had killed Lindsey during the fight in You're Welcome, I would've been fine with it, but at that moment, Lindsey was helping him. The idea that Lindsey possibly may or may not betray Angel at some indeterminate time in the future is not sufficient justification for murdering a human being in cold blood.

The fact that he forced his non-violent, pacifist friend to carry out the murder for him is just the icing on a very unsavoury cake.

I think that Lindsey being killed, not by Angel, but by a flunky as an afterthought is a very resonant theme, and would be a deliciously ironic end to his character - but the fact that Angel executed such a morally heinous act so clinically leaves a horrible taste in my mouth, and I cannot help but hate that scene for what it shows Angel to be. The Angel at the latter end of S5 is not the Angel I knew and loved.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I agree a million times with this post.

The Unspoken

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Because he'd been trying to kill Lindsey since S2 and Christian always told him he wouldn't do the episode. They day they got cancelled, Chris was on set with DB and went to DB's trailer after the news broke to see if he was okay (DB is CK's best friend) he ran into Joss on the way and Chris asked Joss what he was going to do now. Joss' reply was 'Bleeping kill you.' LOL. (He told this, and many other Angel related stories, at The Vampire Ball convention in November)

It's no secret that I'm not a huge fan of the way Lindsey was killed. I knew he wouldn't make it out of the show alive, but I did think that he deserved better than to be shot by a lower member of the team. He was such a huge thorn in Angel's side for so long, I think they deserved to have that epic, all-out, last-man-standing-fight we were all so looking forward too.
That's funny...and odd. Couldn't he get sued for breach of contract?
 
S
SlayerFae
I think that really comes down to Joss realizing each time that he really did love Lindsey's charater, and Christian in general, so he never argued with Christian said "No"
crazysoulless
crazysoulless
Kim Rhodes did the same thing on Supernatural and not only did it work but Jody is part of a SPN spinoff.

Lyri

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That's funny...and odd. Couldn't he get sued for breach of contract?
Nope, 'cause he wasn't under contract. He was a recurring cast member who could refuse work if he wanted...just like all the bit parters on the shows. (Lindsey, Lilah, Groo, Kendra, Darla, Dru, Gwen and so forth)
 
T
The Unspoken
That reminds me of Charisma signing a contract only to find out later she was going to die, lol.

brinkster130

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Sineya
He did basically get that fight in Your Welcome, though. The thing with Lindsey though (And I'm hiding from you and LM as I say this) is that Angel was the biggest thorn in his side, but Angel's enemies and battles were much bigger than Lindsey McDonald.

His death was much like what Lindsey was to Angel; an afterthought.
Good point, I always felt the same.

First - Lorne doing it was awesome. Second - Lindsay's death was the final backhanded slap from Angel to Lindsay. With this action he said, "You're not even worth my time to kill you."

I liked it.
I agree. I always expected Lindsay to be killed; but I never thought it would have been Lorne pulling the trigger. That twist really surprised me.
 

LadyLavinia

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Lindsay's death reminded me of Nina Myers' death on "24". Not only was it chickens**t, it was an ugly act of murder, disguised as something morally right. The whole thing reeked of hypocrisy. Not only did it lower my opinion of Lorne, but my opinion of Angel hit the abyss after this. And he has not paid the consequences of Lindsay's death. In fact, this reminds me that Angel rarely pays the consequences of his deeds - including the ones he had committed with a soul.
 
C
citiegal17
Great Point!
S
soulunsung
I agree with everything said about Angel, except what was said about Lorne because I truly do love Lorne no matter what and I think that was the final straw that truly broke him and he was just as much a victim of Angel's deeds as well as Lindsey.

VisionGirl

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I haven't watched that much of Angel yet so am rather shocked to hear that Lorne killed him, of all people.

Comments on this post
Joan the Vampire Slayer agrees: Oops, gotta watch out for spoilers!
If someone doesn't want to know what happens in a particular season, why are they reading that forum?! I'm sorry but that bugs the hell out of me.
 
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GrrArghx
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HisMrs

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In one of the season 5 featurettes, Joss says that Lindsey's death was one of his favorite things they did on the show.
Whoa, did he really say that??? Wow, yet another reason to hate Joss Whedon. Bluh. :(

Lindsey's death left a bad taste in my mouth. I thought it was unnecessary and a very horrible way to do it. If anyone was going to kill Lindsey, it should have been Angel,
not Lorne. I could totally understand why he said that after he did that, he was out. I would have wanted out, too.
I understand why Angel felt Lindsey was too much of a threat to be left alone, but I don't agree that he needed to be killed.
 
S
soulunsung
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Taake

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Black Thorn
In one of the season 5 featurettes, Joss says that Lindsey's death was one of his favorite things they did on the show.
I'm with him there actually. I like Lindsey a lot but his death was brilliant. Firstly I didn't see it coming, secondly having Lorne do it... again sheer brilliance.
Plus the show was over anyway so it wasn't as if one would see more of Lindsey either way and frankly speaking from Angel's point of view Lindsey was a loose end that needed to be dealt with. Lets face it Linds was never gonna be a White Hat... he's into the power and would have continued on that path until whatever end he'd have met.

And from a storyteller's point of view writing something that's going to affect people, get them talking, is really quite something. It's a powerful scene, I can certainly see why Joss would like it.
 
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GrrArghx
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LondonDude

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I was really shocked that Lorne killed Lindsay because Lorne is not really a violent person or a killer. But I think Angel made the right decision because Lindsay only cares about power which means he will probably betray Angel and the team. So Angel couldn't take the risk of having Lindsay alive.
 

Lyri

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I was really shocked that Lorne killed Lindsay because Lorne is not really a violent person or a killer. But I think Angel made the right decision because Lindsay only cares about power which means he will probably betray Angel and the team. So Angel couldn't take the risk of having Lindsay alive.
He MIGHT betray them. Just like Spike and Angel MIGHT lose their souls, or Gunn MIGHT become a vampire (wait...uh...) or Illryria MIGHT kill the whole world in a bloody shower of evil. It's all just MIGHT.

Angel had no proof that Lindsey would do anything like that. Lindsey was working with him, wanting to actually help Angel get rid of the Senior Partners, he was on the right side at the end, and for Angel to ask Lorne, the only passivitist in the group, to kill him in what is essentially cold blood is just too much for me to take.

If Angel felt that Lindsey was such a danger to the world, he should have killed the man himself.
 
S
soulunsung
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LondonDude

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He MIGHT betray them. Just like Spike and Angel MIGHT lose their souls, or Gunn MIGHT become a vampire (wait...uh...) or Illryria MIGHT kill the whole world in a bloody shower of evil. It's all just MIGHT.

Angel had no proof that Lindsey would do anything like that. Lindsey was working with him, wanting to actually help Angel get rid of the Senior Partners, he was on the right side at the end, and for Angel to ask Lorne, the only passivitist in the group, to kill him in what is essentially cold blood is just too much for me to take.

If Angel felt that Lindsey was such a danger to the world, he should have killed the man himself.
Lindsay is a ambiguous character. Lindsay would choose power over good. For example in the episode Blind Lindsay had the chance to walk away from Wolfram and Hart but he stayed because he had a promotion. Also when Lindsay left in the episode "Dead Zone" Angel warned him to not come back to L.A. But Lindsay clearly didn't listen.

When he came back, he planned to kill Angel just because Angel was the CEO Of Wolfram and Hart and so that he can be in Circle of the Black Thorn. Angel knew that Lindsay could betray him in the near future, so he had Lorne to kill him because Lindsay didn't expect to be killed by one of Angel's "flunkies"
 
S
soulunsung
That still doesn't make what Angel did right, though.

Lyri

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Like Soulunsung says, it doesn't make what Angel did right, though.

If you look at everything with those eyes, then, really, Angel, Spike, Willow, Faith, Illryria, Connor and Andrew should have been killed a long, LONG time ago.

I've said in this thread before that I'm biased when it comes to this scene, because I know, for a fact, how much Chris and Andy hated shooting it, but no one will ever convince me that Angel did the right thing here because it was a selfish move on Angel's part.
 
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