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Lindsey's Sexuality?

palabravampiress

Bidet of Evil
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
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Interesting theory.

I don't see a whole lot of support for it, but I do think it is an interesting theory.

I think that rather than being evidence of Lindsey's or Angel's alleged bisexuality or homosexuality, any double entendre that you see between the two can be fairly interpreted as existing to highlight a struggle for dominance in the relationship. Sex and dominance are closely linked and, in American culture, sexual references and metaphors often indicate dominance.

The verb "to screw" is a perfect example. It has several meanings. One of those meanings is, indeed, sexual in nature, but it also carries with it serious connotations of masculine dominance. From the Oxford English Dictionary, CD-Rom version 3.1, Copyright 2004: coarse slang. a. intr. To copulate, have sexual intercourse (with a person). b. trans. Usu. of a man: to copulate with, have sexual intercourse with (someone). The word is also commonly used to indicate the action of somehow forcing or besting someone else, usually by dishonest means. Again, I refer to the OED: To put compulsion upon, to constrain, oppress. a. To oppress (a person, esp. a tenant) with exactions; also to screw down, to screw out of, to deprive of or dispossess of by extortion. d. slang (chiefly N. Amer.). To defraud (a person, esp. of money), to cheat; to deceive, to "˜rook'; freq. as pa. pple. in to be (or get) screwed. The word itself contains meanings that are related to sex and dominance.

Taken in the context of the Angel/Lindsey relationship, which places Lindsey and Angel on opposite sides of good and evil as well as (eventually) in direct competition for the same position (not to mention the hand thing), it is very easy to interpret the "You want to screw him" comment as well as Lindsey's lust for Darla (Angel's mate) as expressions of a frustrated quest for dominance and power over the man who had beaten him and taken his hand.

This is just my opinion. It is in no way fact. To me, though, the sexual undertones of the Angel/Lindsey relationship are very clearly attributable to issues of male dominance rather than to issues of genuine sexual attraction.
 
I
Imberan
[No message]

GATEGOD

Anyanka
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I was looking for some info about Lindsey and was reading through his Wikipedia page and found this funny, just wondering what you all though of it. I had never thought of it before.


Source
lol no, He wasn't 'gay' They just love crack jokes and banter. Lindsey never seemed gay, he and Darla seemed pretty friendly to me. Him and Angel, not so much, but there conversations were hilarious!!
 

Jules

Bite Me
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Black Thorn
They do say there's a fine line between love and hate ;)

Personally, I never thought of Lindsey as gay. It just doesn't seem to fit his character.
 

GATEGOD

Anyanka
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They do say there's a fine line between love and hate ;)

Personally, I never thought of Lindsey as gay. It just doesn't seem to fit his character.
It doesn't at all. It's more hate and joke than it is Love and flirting. ::huh1:: I never even thought that he was gay ... Never crossed my mind.. ever
 

FaithyFivebyFive

Love's bitcah
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I think some of those quotes and subtext were to be funny, if the amount of gay quote/references to do with Xander were to be taken literally, we'd be questioning his sexuality too.
 

BepperGirl

Gaby, girl with the list
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Lindsey/Angel was always one of my fave slash ships on Angel, but generally it's all in good fun. Seeing beneath the text.

On the Wikipedia subject, I would say that it is not always a reliable source of information. I certainly use it on occasion, but academically, in college, you are taught not to use it as a reference when you are doing a paper.
 
B
Blondie Bear
TOTALLY. Sorry, I'm teaching English and I have to deal with this ALL THE TIME.

white avenger

white avenger
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The whole hetero/bi/gay thing has been just about beaten to death by Joss and his minions. The most obvious was Willow and Tara, later Kennedy; then came the speculation about Ripper and Ethan; and lord only knows how often the Buffy/Faith undertones have been mentioned. There was Spike and Angel "just that one time," and Xander's "Okay, that's it. I'm goin' gay! C'mon, Will, gay me up," accompanied by the enthralled expression on Andrew's face (and let's not forget Andrew's interest in Spike. Just hero worship, or...). Oh, and that little exchange between Willow and Fred, I'm seeing someone."Now Buffy's "experimenting."

So, what's so unbelievable about Lindsey harboring a secret yen for Angel?
 
S
Spikesangel11
I love Willow and Fred's exchange hahaha, I had to rewind it because I wasn't sure I'd heard what she'd said correctly :P
T

T.I.P

Guest
To me, it didnt seem like Lindsey had any sort of gayfeeling towards Angel, i actually cant think of one instance to suggest Lindsey is gay/bi.
Just like i dont see anything to suggest Ethen/Giles or Spike/Angel would have been Gay/Bi either.
But The rivalry between Lindsey and Angel in seasons 1 & 2 was one of the best, possibly the best, on Ats.
 

Lindsey McDonald

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The whole hetero/bi/gay thing has been just about beaten to death by Joss and his minions. The most obvious was Willow and Tara, later Kennedy; then came the speculation about Ripper and Ethan; and lord only knows how often the Buffy/Faith undertones have been mentioned. There was Spike and Angel "just that one time," and Xander's "Okay, that's it. I'm goin' gay! C'mon, Will, gay me up," accompanied by the enthralled expression on Andrew's face (and let's not forget Andrew's interest in Spike. Just hero worship, or...). Oh, and that little exchange between Willow and Fred, I'm seeing someone."Now Buffy's "experimenting."

So, what's so unbelievable about Lindsey harboring a secret yen for Angel?
But......wasn't it you who said that it was just a jealous admiration thing in that other topic? Or am I getting confused? Actually, that's probably more likely!

To me, it didnt seem like Lindsey had any sort of gayfeeling towards Angel, i actually cant think of one instance to suggest Lindsey is gay/bi.
Just like i dont see anything to suggest Ethen/Giles or Spike/Angel would have been Gay/Bi either.
But The rivalry between Lindsey and Angel in seasons 1 & 2 was one of the best, possibly the best, on Ats.
You can't think of one instance? I can think of many.

1. His fascination with Darla and his relationship with Eve. Both had been with Angel.

2. Darla's first comment about whether he has a boyfriend, then her remark that he doesn't want to screw her, but Angel. Interesting pun.

3. Lindsey's obsessive jealously and obsession with Angel. The only other obsessions we see in the 'verse have a (usually twisted) romantic element to them, e.g., Angelus for Buffy, Darla for Angel, early Spike for Buffy.

4. Lindsey's private hell being a happy family with a wife in suburbia. (He did say that it wasn't getting his heart ripped out that was the worst part).

5.Lindsey's line in Not Fade Away "This is not about coveting your neighbour's ass..." The most widely known section of that commandment is "You shall not covet your neighbour's wife". Freudian slip?

6. His last word is "Angel".

7. General body language throughout. Lindsey is always over-eager to impress Angel physically. Lots of standing with arms wide and facing Angel directly. On it's own, I'd say it's just an alpha male thing, but with the rest of this stuff I'm not so sure.

Now, yes, it is most definately all subtext. Nothing explicit or definative. But it does all add up. On their own each point is shakey at best (especially number 4). But as a part of the big picture...

Now I'm not saying that he knows about it or understands it. I'm not saying he goes home at night and writes Angel little love poems. He goes home at night and plots on how to kill him. But I can really see this twisted and perverted desire driving his obsession.

And I mean that the desire itself has been twisted and perverted, not that it is by definition. Just in case that was unclear.
[br][/br]
Edit:
[br][/br]
I forgot about the whole Eve thing. Firstly, sexuality isn't always as clear cut as Lindsey likes Eve, ergo, Lindsey can never like a guy. I'd have thought people who watched Buffy would have realised that. Secondly, I always got the impression that he was only using Eve. Not Fade Away certainly seems to contradict that (an aspect of that episode I dissagree with majorly for reasons completely outwith Lindsey's sexuality and relating to lazy writing), but the inclusion of the line that says Lindsey is glad that Angel never got his "mitts on" Eve doesn't completely rule anything out. Cause he did. And I'm pretty sure Lindsey would have known it. But that delves into the realms of speculation and sheer fan-wankery, so I'll leave it and stick to the subtexty goodness.
 
D
DrusillaRox
hehe. I was going through the posts just WAITING for you to show up
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Great post Lindsey.
T

T.I.P

Guest
Dont know about that Five by Five, id go through each point you made, but they are all sheer speculation.
To say Lindsey was into Angel has no basis at all.
Yeah, he was into Darla and Eve, well, they're sexy, what straight guy wouldnt be.
And Linsey always obsessing/impressing Angel is just down to their rivalry.
Its not because he fancies him.
 

Lindsey McDonald

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Dont know about that Five by Five, id go through each point you made, but they are all sheer speculation.
To say Lindsey was into Angel has no basis at all.
Yeah, he was into Darla and Eve, well, they're sexy, what straight guy wouldnt be.
And Linsey always obsessing/impressing Angel is just down to their rivalry.
Its not because he fancies him.
Don't get me wrong, Larla is one of my favourite ships. However, to say there is no basis to the idea is willful ignorance. You may not interpret the subtext that way, and that's fine, but there is sufficiant evidence there to call it subtext. I even said in my post that, yes, you could go through each individual example and they wouldn't hold up, but that's not really the point. It's the fact that the idea was brought up consistently throughout the show in varying degrees of subtlety. You may not see it that way, but you have to admit it can be interpreted that way.

It's just like whether it was the PTB that brought the snow in Amends, The First that brought back Angel, The PTB that let Angel save Kate, The First that manifested as Joyce or Darla, and hopefully some other examples that don't involve The First or The PTB that I can't think of at half one in the morning. It's all subtext, in varying degrees: it can be effectively argued multiple ways. But it's silly to insist that one of these ways is completely impossible without irrefutable evidence.
 
T

T.I.P

Guest
Its not completely impossible and of course can be interpreted that way, but why? first, for some unknown reason people start speculating about Giles/Ethen, Spike/Angel, Xander and now Lindsey and Angel. Whats next?
To suggest Lindsey was into Angel is like saying Joyce was into Spike or Oz was secretly into Xander just coz it cant be disproved.
 

Lindsey McDonald

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Its not completely impossible and of course can be interpreted that way, but why? first, for some unknown reason people start speculating about Giles/Ethen, Spike/Angel, Xander and now Lindsey and Angel. Whats next?
To suggest Lindsey was into Angel is like saying Joyce was into Spike or Oz was secretly into Xander just coz it cant be disproved.
Firstly, I never saw any kind of evidence for Ethan/Giles at all, but I may be missing something. I can't say I was exactly looking for it.... So I really don't agree with that one. Spike and Angel did get intimate "that one time," so we do know they did something back in their hedonistic vampire days. That one was presented through direct dialogue, and so can't be argued against. With Xander, the ambiguity is there somewhat. Especially early on. However, Joss has said that that's cause he hadn't decided whether he wanted to make Xander or Willow gay, so that's pretty much been settled.

The Oz and Xander one though is just ridiculous. The difference is that there is evidence to sugest Lindsey had feelings for Angel, and there is evidence to suggest that it was all rivalry. In your example there is no evidence to suggest that Oz liked Xander, so it cannot realisticaly be interpreted that way. Interpretation relies on taking the facts that we are given and trying to come up with what they mean. Lindsey, in the strict confines of the writing, direction and acting in the show, can reasonably be assumed to have feelings for Angel. The same cannot be said about your example. That's the difference.

Edit: Oh, and Joyce was totally into Spike! ;)
 
T

T.I.P

Guest
4. Lindsey's private hell being a happy family with a wife in suburbia. (He did say that it wasn't getting his heart ripped out that was the worst part).

5.Lindsey's line in Not Fade Away "This is not about coveting your neighbour's ass..."

6. His last word is "Angel".

7. General body language throughout. Lindsey is always over-eager to impress Angel physically. Lots of standing with arms wide and facing Angel directly. On it's own, I'd say it's just an alpha male thing, but with the rest of this stuff I'm not so sure.
.
Im changing my mind a bit here, i was being stobborn before but now i see. I'll have to go watch s5 now. These points do make sense.

Point No.5. I cant remember that bit but that sounds like it wouldve been funny. Point 7, to me, also sounds very funny, :lmao:

Also, dont know what this ha to do with anything but why did Dru and Darla spare Lindsey and Lilahs lives?
 

Lindsey McDonald

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Im changing my mind a bit here, i was being stobborn before but now i see. I'll have to go watch s5 now. These points do make sense.

Point No.5. I cant remember that bit but that sounds like it wouldve been funny. Point 7, to me, also sounds very funny, :lmao:

Also, dont know what this ha to do with anything but why did Dru and Darla spare Lindsey and Lilahs lives?
O.O I'm actually managing to convince someone! Wow.... I thought I was mad.

Seriously, when you watch Lindsey with all this in mind, it's hilarious. All the getting up in Angel's face and squaring up to him just screams "LOVE ME!!!!!!". Then there's the complete randomness of Lindsey stripping off for their fight in You're Welcome.

And about the last bit? It's cause they're hawt.
 

MSchett

Teeth,Claws,Breakup Sex..
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Also, dont know what this ha to do with anything but why did Dru and Darla spare Lindsey and Lilahs lives?
Dru and Darla wanted to leave a link to Wolfram and Hart open
I got the impression they left Lilah alive on accident since she was beaten to hell and Lindsey was in fine shape...
 
T

T.I.P

Guest
More Lindsey qoutes: to Angel: ''Just when i think ive got you ALL figured out, lover, you show up in a suit''
 
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