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Lindsey's Sexuality?

DrusillaRox

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Linsey's Sexuality

Can I say that? Any way, I saw on a thread someone saying that lindsey's gay....And I kindof agree!

Thoughts?: erm :
 

Lindsey McDonald

Spirit Boy
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And, yes, as expected, I look like a crazy Swede. Well fine. I'll just not be helpful next time. :silly:

Anyway, back on topic. I have 2 new converts! Yeah!
 
Lyri
Lyri
lol, sorry!! :D
Washburne
Washburne
Ok, then they make you look crazy they say sorry and then they do it to me. Nothing! :'(
E
Edmund Blackadder
Thats the problem with science, once its proven its hard to disprove!

SpikesAngel

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Lindsey did have an obession with Angel but that doesn't mean he's gay. Your points really make sense but I just never saw them that way.

Let's just look at Spike and Angel. Wasn't that basically the same? They were rivals. Hated each other. Fought all the time. Dru just couldn't get enough of Angel (In Lindsey's case it's Darla). Spike always wanted to kill him and so on. Isn't their relationship quite similar to Lindseys and Angels?

And who thinks Spike's gay? Well, maybe some people. But all in all they just don't seem like that. And in my opinion neither do Lindsey and Angel.
 

Uncle Rory

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The first thing I learned after my first arguement on this site was that you can interpret this show as you like but nothing is absolute. That's the purpose of the "Subtext" to get you to think along these lines, let you come up with your own opinion or in general just create tension.

Even the characters in the shows misinterpret the subtext. I think in "Storyteller" Andrew comments on the enormous SEXUAL TENSION between Spike and Principal Wood. He was wrong and as such we should all realize that our opinions are just that - Opinions which may or may not be accurate.

The idea that Lindsay has deep seated sexual desire in his sub-consience would be valid except of one small detail - HE'S A CHARACTER IN A TV SHOW, NOT A REAL PERSON AND THEREFORE HAS NO REAL IDENTITY NOR A SUBCONSCIENCE.

The issue here which Edmund made and I back up is that it is not called "READING the SUBTEXT" (an absolute - see first paragraph - and who are these people doing the "CALLING or NAMING" anyway?) It is called "INTERPRETING the SUBTEXT" and there is no wrong or right.

In the end, if all you have is INNUENDO and that is the basis for your opinion isn't that about the same as PREJUDICE? You are judging a person based on EVERYTHING except for the reality. Hope that's not how we live our life in the real world. Example - the size matters comment by Lindsay in "You're Welcome." So any Man who makes double-entendre jokes with another male about the size of his endowment must harbour some hidden Homosexuallity? WOW. Sounds like wishful thinking on someone's part. NEWSFLASH Straight guys joke about this stuff all the time. I would wonder about the sexuallity of a guy who DOESN'T feel secure enough to joke about it.

Uncle Rory

Just one last thing I forgot to add. Every detail in the Wilkipedia quote can be passed off as Jokes, coincidence or comments to be taken literally. Example; the verb to screw could be interpreted as sexual or as having an Evil intention to mess someone over. Overall I would have no problem with Lindsey being attracted to Angel or his being Gay, bi, Asexual, bisexual, or whatever. Obviously the writers that speculated on Lindsay's sexuallity did so to stir up controversy and it seems to have worked.

Maybe I'm just naive but please fill me in. Is Homosexuallity like communism in that you want everyone around you to be the same as you, kind of like Cuba trying to infiltrate Nicaragua. I accept that Willow is gay, no prob. Seems that around here ANY possible situation that has the remotest Same sex coloring makes the character Gay. Buffy has a girl / girl thing, she's gay. Lindsey jokes about the size of his sword, he's gay. I've never seen anybody trying to push a straight Willow opinion on anyone. Impossible? Nothing is impossible. Labels, Labels, Labels. Wishful thinking maybe? Project much?

Uncle Rory
 
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I once read an article that suggested gay men have larger 'appendages' because they have a higher hormone level running through their body.

What does this have to do with Lindsey?

Well, Joss called him 'The Tiny Texan' ergo Lindsey is straight!
 
R
Randy Giles
hahahahaha!
L
Lindsey McDonald
Lol, I conceed to your watertight argument. You even have science on your side and everything!

Lindsey McDonald

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The first thing I learned after my first arguement on this site was that you can interpret this show as you like but nothing is absolute. That's the purpose of the "Subtext" to get you to think along these lines, let you come up with your own opinion or in general just create tension.

Even the characters in the shows misinterpret the subtext. I think in "Storyteller" Andrew comments on the enormous SEXUAL TENSION between Spike and Principal Wood. He was wrong and as such we should all realize that our opinions are just that - Opinions which may or may not be accurate.
Fair enough - unless it's directly addressed in the show or by the writers it's all just opinion. But since when was discussing our opinions on aspects of a TV show a bad thing? That's the main reason most members would have had for joining these boards. As I've said, it's not definitive, and likely never will be.

The idea that Lindsay has deep seated sexual desire in his sub-consience would be valid except of one small detail - HE'S A CHARACTER IN A TV SHOW, NOT A REAL PERSON AND THEREFORE HAS NO REAL IDENTITY NOR A SUBCONSCIENCE.
First, it's Lindsey. Pet Peeve, especially since the name change. Secondly, it's simply ridiculous to say that writers cannot write a character with subconcious motivation. Such a character would never be able to support a sustained presence in a show, and would get very boring, very fast. Sure, he's not real. Neither's his concious motivation, dialogue, actions, etc. ad nauseam. You seem happy enough to consider those valid sources for argument.

The issue here which Edmund made and I back up is that it is not called "READING the SUBTEXT" (an absolute - see first paragraph - and who are these people doing the "CALLING or NAMING" anyway?) It is called "INTERPRETING the SUBTEXT" and there is no wrong or right.
I think I agree with you here. By its very nature, interpretation cannot be definitive.

In the end, if all you have is INNUENDO and that is the basis for your opinion isn't that about the same as PREJUDICE? You are judging a person based on EVERYTHING except for the reality. Hope that's not how we live our life in the real world. Example - the size matters comment by Lindsay in "You're Welcome." So any Man who makes double-entendre jokes with another male about the size of his endowment must harbour some hidden Homosexuallity? WOW. Sounds like wishful thinking on someone's part. NEWSFLASH Straight guys joke about this stuff all the time. I would wonder about the sexuallity of a guy who DOESN'T feel secure enough to joke about it.

Uncle Rory
As I've said before (multiple times), no one incedent or gay joke is nearly enough to judge a character on. However, a sustained and consistent series of such innuendo (which, unlike in the real world is generally written to serve some sort of purpose, even if said purpose is as vague as to build his character) is plenty enough to form an opinion on. We saw the start of this with Xander - Joss' intention was to potentially have him come out.

And anyway, my point on that "size matters" joke wasn't anything to do with the alpha male sparring. It related to the visual image of Lindsey's "dagger" growing in size when Angel showed up.

Just one last thing I forgot to add. Every detail in the Wilkipedia quote can be passed off as Jokes, coincidence or comments to be taken literally. Example; the verb to screw could be interpreted as sexual or as having an Evil intention to mess someone over. Overall I would have no problem with Lindsey being attracted to Angel or his being Gay, bi, Asexual, bisexual, or whatever. Obviously the writers that speculated on Lindsay's sexuallity did so to stir up controversy and it seems to have worked.
Interpretation. As you said, it's indefinate. That's the point. If these things couldn't be interpreted as nothing more than throwaway jokes, or pure struggles for dominance there would be no discussion. It would be definate.

Also, I don't like your assertion that voicing an interpretation that a character is gay is inherently intended to be controversial. Wikipedia is (supposed to be) an unbiased and complete encyclopaedia. So long as what the contributors said was backed up with a reasonable amount of evidence - which they have provided, there is no reason why it shouldn't be a perfectly valid submission to make.

Maybe I'm just naive but please fill me in. Is Homosexuallity like communism in that you want everyone around you to be the same as you, kind of like Cuba trying to infiltrate Nicaragua. I accept that Willow is gay, no prob. Seems that around here ANY possible situation that has the remotest Same sex coloring makes the character Gay. Buffy has a girl / girl thing, she's gay. Lindsey jokes about the size of his sword, he's gay. I've never seen anybody trying to push a straight Willow opinion on anyone. Impossible? Nothing is impossible. Labels, Labels, Labels. Wishful thinking maybe? Project much?

Uncle Rory
Yes. Homosexuals are trying to take over the world. It's all so clear now. Let's not mention the fact that people are generally assumed to be straight unless they exhibit extreme camp/butch tendencies, and so it's necessary for a character to actually establish gayness.

It's you who are pushing labels here. In most of the discussions I've seen on these boards on the topic, it's been a general consensus that there are a) technical terms, b) personal identifications and c) true positions on a sexual spectrum. None of these three need match. A woman who is sexually attracted to both men and women is bi-sexual, she can concurrently identify as being gay, and her true sexuality can move between the two.

Hey, that one sounds familiar.

Arguing that Willow is straight is directly in opposition to established canon. Arguing that Buffy is straight is directly in opposition to established canon. As such, these examples are worthless when dealing with a situation where the character's sexuality can only be established through interpretation. You cannot definitively prove that Lindsey is not bi-sexual. It's simply impossible. As is proving definitively that he is. It's in a situation like this that interpretation has to play a part, and if you don't like one interpretation, that's fine. I just happen not to like a different one from you. Denying that the other exists, however, is pointless.
 
U
Uncle Rory
I never stated it was
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
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Lol. I'd say Lindsey is straight, but i have noticed all the subtext throughout the show about him and Angel. Its quite funny. Did you notice what Lindseys last word before he died was? It was 'Angel' :)
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Yep. Just as Buffy's last word was "Spike."
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Funny moment: in either power play or NFA, Lindsey says something like 'im here if you want me' and Angel says 'i want you Lindsey'. It was hilarious. I love Lindsey. His luscious hair, his rippling pecs, his firm buttocks. Har de har.
 

Joan the Vampire Slayer

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Well, fine, perhaps "subtext" isn't the correct word, but if you are trying to say that character motivation and dialouge cannot be interpreted in different ways, then that's just ridiculous. If that's the case, what the hell are we all doing here?
Well, this is the first time I've stumbed upon this thread and must say I'm immensely enjoying reading everyone's responses to this topic. I'm seeing a bit of er, defensive comments from some, which is interesting to me. To those people;does it threaten you that Lindsey might have sexual feelings for Angel? Why?

In response to Lindsey's above comment:

I completely agree. I've said this before and I'll say it again; when it comes to a text (film, lit, whatever) everyone's interpretation is valid. That's what art is about. We all see what we want to see in things. That's what gives us meaning, what makes us care about the text and the characters. Why else do we keep talking about these shows? Because we all see something different. Joss left things ambiguous so we could all individually create our own meaning of the text, based on our own experiences, worldview, and preferences.

My opinion? It's difficult to ignore the hints Joss puts in to suggest that Lindsey might have a "thing" for Angel. Whether or not it was just intended to be an inside joke or if it's sopposed to be taken seriously is debatable.
 
B
BillyidolwannaB
Wha? Buffys last word was spike?
W
Wishing Oceans
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Well, this is the first time I've stumbed upon this thread and must say I'm immensely enjoying reading everyone's responses to this topic. I'm seeing a bit of er, defensive comments from some, which is interesting to me. To those people;does it threaten you that Lindsey might have sexual feelings for Angel? Why?
Why does it have to have a reason outside of the fact there isn't any real information to corroborate this.

We see Lindsey love one woman and be, at least, sexually attracted to another.

There is a chemistry between Angel and Lindsey, but that doesn't mean he wants Angel up his chuffer!

They are enemies, Lindsey sees himself as Angels equal, Angel really doesn't, but that doesn't mean either of them want to sleep with the other.

Why would it 'threaten' people when there isn't anything clear, just people reading between the lines and simply adding their own interpretation.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I wasn't referring to you, it just seemed like a few people were offended.

Joan the Vampire Slayer

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Maybe I'm just naive but please fill me in. Is Homosexuallity like communism in that you want everyone around you to be the same as you, kind of like Cuba trying to infiltrate Nicaragua. I accept that Willow is gay, no prob. Seems that around here ANY possible situation that has the remotest Same sex coloring makes the character Gay. Buffy has a girl / girl thing, she's gay. Lindsey jokes about the size of his sword, he's gay. I've never seen anybody trying to push a straight Willow opinion on anyone. Impossible? Nothing is impossible. Labels, Labels, Labels. Wishful thinking maybe? Project much?

Uncle Rory
First off, writing in caps is QUITE JARRING. Sort of irritates me, if ya know what I mean. :) Try italics if you want to emphasize a point (just my opinion).

Well, in terms of your question about homosexuality being like communism, I'm not sure really how to answer that. I hope you're joking! I don't identify as gay, so I can't really say if gay people prefer gay characters. But I'd say it's just human nature for people to enjoy characters they can identify with. Or else, why would we keep watching?

Plus, I could be wrong, but I don't think the issue here is if Lindsey is gay - I don't think anyone thinks that defiantly, since obviously, his heterosexual relationships prove otherwise. I think that the debate is about is if Lindsey harbors feelings for Angel. This does not nessesarily make him gay. And as palabravampires brilliantly pointed out, sex and violence are closely linked, so it's really hard to say what the intention is with these two, are how they are "intended" to be read.

This reminds me so much of the on-going Did Buffy Love Spike debate that raging on still in full blast. When the show ended, in the commentary for Chosen, Joss said he wanted to leave to the audience to deside if they slept together on that night. So basically he said that whatever you want to have happened did. However you saw it, however you wanted it, that's what it was. I see this same issue with this topic.
 
L
Lindsey McDonald
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