• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Lindsey's Sexuality?

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
1,489
Age
38
Well, I don't know about Lindsay, but I can't speak for evil hand! Nope, evil hand is straight. As for Darla, come on. Neither she nor Drusilla were up for multiple partner stuff with Angelus. That's like, barely a two on the Kinsley scale. I would strongly question if she would even make out with a girl while drunk for the attention, let alone homosexual activity for pleasure.
 

MrCrazyFace

Slaypires Are Dope
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
5
Age
26
Location
Perth, Scotland
Spike is straight. I don't think Angel and Spike have ever had sex with each other because if that is supposed to be what defines "intimate" then Wesley and Gunn had absolutely nothing to worry about as they'd never slept with Angel therefore the wouldn't count as people Angel is "intimate" with.

My headcanon theory is that Angelus got really drunk, got into the wrong bed and mistook Spike for one of the girls and got really handsy before the mistake was realised. Angel and Spike never spoke of it again.
I could be wrong but on the commentary track for "Hole in the World" Joss Whedon mentioned that Spike and Angel did have sex during their souless days - it was not romantic and they didn't love each other, it was likely done just for the hell of it. If you count commentary tracks then Joss Whedon believes Angel & Spike have had sex.
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
7,052
Location
UK
I've always believed Angel and Spike have had sex. I also agree, Lindsey is straight, but I do think if Angel made a move, he wouldn't run the other way.
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,078
Location
Manchester
He was genderqueer and so was Darla. End of.
Not quite sure who "he" is but if we're talking about vampires then I'd tend to agree in theory irrespective of whether there's contextual evidence or not. Vampires are traditionally pleasure seeking, associated with instant gratification, the Id etc. so tend to escape conventional binary definitions. However, in the case of 'verse vampires, I'm not sure to what extent one needs to consider the impact of their previous "nature", "character" or inclinations. Let's say, the potential is there.

As far as Lindsay's concerned, I'm not sure. Certainly, on a spectrum running from homosocial, through homoerotic to homosexual, I'd position him towards homosexual but only in relation to Angel. As this says,
if Angel made a move, he wouldn't run the other way.
One could argue that his attraction to Darla is a displacement of his attraction to Angel, he's emulating Angel (he's "going there" because Angel's already "been there" sorta thing). However, it still falls short of actual homosexuality.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
8,085
Age
29
As for Darla, come on. Neither she nor Drusilla were up for multiple partner stuff with Angelus.
They had a threesome with the immortal but it's possible that he kind of releases a pheromone that gets women horny around him.

I could be wrong but on the commentary track for "Hole in the World" Joss Whedon mentioned that Spike and Angel did have sex during their souless days - it was not romantic and they didn't love each other, it was likely done just for the hell of it. If you count commentary tracks then Joss Whedon believes Angel & Spike have had sex.
Joss Whedon also had Sunnydale have docks in Season 2&3 where scenes actually took place, yet in Season 7 Sunnydale is completely landlocked so that it can fall into a crater. Whedon throws out continuity as it suits him eg Buffy had a hard time killing the first turok han yet come the finale, she and the potentials are slicing through them like butter. Also in the (supposedly) canon comics Buffy Season 8-12, he forgot that Warren was dead which is why the first was able to take his form.

When Lindsey bought Spike a drink, Spike outright said "you're not my type". Also Spike and Harmony had discussed having a threesome which Harmony would only do if it was "boy, boy, girl, or Charlize Theron" which obviously Spike didn't agree to. Spike was too wrapped up in Drusilla and despised Angelus for the way he would just take her away from him when it suited. If Spike and Angelus slept together once, then there needn't be an issue as they could've just had a threesome with Dru. Also like I said in my earlier post, if "intimate" is meant to constitute sex, then Wesley and Gunn had absolutely nothing to worry about as they'd never slept with Angel, therefore they weren't "intimate" with Angel.

Joss Whedon's word is not God. I go on what I'm SHOWN on screen, not by what I'm TOLD in a commentary track by a guy who ignores continuity if it makes (in his view) a better storyline. As far as I'm concerned, Spike and Angel have NEVER had sex with each other.
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
850
Location
East of Trouble
Straight metrosexual cowboy.

I love slash, but there is no real subtext there. If i did slash fanfic of him, i would have to manufacture all back story. Not so with Xander, Giles or Angel. Giles has electric chemistry with Ethan to the point i think they might actually kiss. Then there is the history of orgies with just one wonan.

Angel and Spike "except that one time" and a boat load of sexual tension and twistable intimate, bad boundary moments going back into Spike's earliest days.

By contrst, nothing in Lindsay reads anything but straight to me. Not hyper macho, but definitely straight. He resents, admires and even comes to respect Angel, but I don't see attraction. Ymmv.
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
6,689
Location
Canada
Sineya
I think once the writers saw the reaction to Willow and Tara from the LGBT community, they were quite happy to drop all sorts of hints that other characters might be gay. And why not? Advertisers were courting the LGBT community because for the most part they had no family ties and thus a lot more disposable income than straights who were tied down with spouses and urchins and mortgages. Money talks and producers listen.

I think the suggestion that Lindsey and possibly others like Spike and Angel could be bisexual was deliberate teasing by the writers - just think of how much conversation on this board was generated by the phrase "except for that one time". I don't see any justification for saying Lindsey might be gay from events in the show. Of course Lindsey and Angel would pay a lot of attention to each other - they were antagonists. And I could admire the work of another man without having any sexual thoughts - this show seems to believe that if I admire someone like, say, Einstein, that I am a closet gay who wants to have sex with him. Aside from the fact that he's dead, no, I would not want sex with him or any other man because I am straight.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,289
Age
48
I think once the writers saw the reaction to Willow and Tara from the LGBT community, they were quite happy to drop all sorts of hints that other characters might be gay. And why not? Advertisers were courting the LGBT community because for the most part they had no family ties and thus a lot more disposable income than straights who were tied down with spouses and urchins and mortgages. Money talks and producers listen.

I think the suggestion that Lindsey and possibly others like Spike and Angel could be bisexual was deliberate teasing by the writers - just think of how much conversation on this board was generated by the phrase "except for that one time". I don't see any justification for saying Lindsey might be gay from events in the show. Of course Lindsey and Angel would pay a lot of attention to each other - they were antagonists. And I could admire the work of another man without having any sexual thoughts - this show seems to believe that if I admire someone like, say, Einstein, that I am a closet gay who wants to have sex with him. Aside from the fact that he's dead, no, I would not want sex with him or any other man because I am straight.
That's fair enough but Lindsay's obsession with Angel is a bit Joker like at times and I can very easily see how some read that as Fo Yay.
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
6,689
Location
Canada
Sineya
I think Joss Whedon's LGBT support is as dubious as his feminist credentials. We have had a lot of discussion about feminism in the Whedonverse and generally it smacks of opportunism rather than feminism. His story about the little blonde girl who defies expectation and not only survives but actively demolishes the monsters was interpreted as feminist, but this was a case of Joss finding out which way the parade was going and cutting in front of it to say he was the leader.

His support for LGBT issues is much the same thing. After a very positive response from the fans, he made a point of making a lot of will they / won't they hints about couples like Fuffy and Spangel. He still went for the "kill your gays" trope with Tillow and as I recall, Larry Blaisdell doesn't survive the battle against the Mayor.
 

NileQT87

Billowy Coat, King of Pain
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
455
Age
33
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
The Hole in the World commentary outright contradicts the actual show. Not only the stuff about Lindsey not being Spike's type and Spike often making homophobic jokes, but Angelus.

Angelus had zero reason to lie in the cage when he said he doesn't swing that way to Wesley. This was the same Angelus who was enjoying embarrassing Angel by recounting him overhearing Fred and Gunn in the Hyperion, so he wasn't pulling punches regarding Angel's personal embarrassment. Angelus had no reason to lie about Angel's sexual orientation and it actually came up in the show.

Once again, Joss doesn't pay attention to his own canon when he thinks he can get brownie points with various groups. He has to retcon his own show frequently to insert this sort of thing and outright can't remember it on occasion (such as Warren being dead).
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
I completely agree.

vampmogs

Potential
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
412
Age
31
I'm gay and have slept with women despite not "swinging that way." Just saying.

I don't think anyone here is arguing against the fact that both Angel and Spike have a clear preference for women. But that doesn't necessarily mean they've never slept with a man, either.

Spike's homophobic insults don't really have to prove much. After all, we're talking about the same guy who makes fun of Angel's "nancy boy hair gel" despite the fact he regularly paints his finger nails, dyes his hair, wears a woman's coat, and must use a lot of hair gel himself to get his hair that slicked back. The characters aren't always self-aware.
 

vampmogs

Potential
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
412
Age
31
Spike's coat is not a woman's coat. It is a man's coat that was worn by a woman. There's a difference.
Does it bother you that I said he's wearing a woman's coat? As far as I'm aware, all we know is that the coat belonged to a woman before he took it. I have no way of knowing whether it was originally a man's coat but I do know for certain that it belonged to woman. To me it doesn't look particularly "masculine" and I never felt Nikki looked androgynous when wearing it. Therefore, IMO, it was a woman's coat, but I really couldn't care a less if people are insistent on it being a "man's" coat, either. Whatever works for you.
 
Last edited:

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
8,085
Age
29
Does it bother you that I said he's wearing a woman's coat? As far as I'm aware, all we know is that the coat belonged to a woman before he took it. I have no way of knowing whether it was originally a man's coat but I do know for certain that it belonged to woman. To me it doesn't look particularly "masculine" and I never felt Nikki looked androgynous when wearing it. Therefore, IMO, it was a woman's coat, but I really couldn't care a less if people are insistent on it being a "man's" coat, either. Whatever works for you.
Saying that Spike wears a woman's coat implies that he like's to dabble in cross dressing which is untrue. The coat is originally a man's coat. Spike was wearing it in Season 2 which was filmed before Season 5. They gave the coat to Nikki to give it an origin.
 

vampmogs

Potential
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
412
Age
31
Saying that Spike wears a woman's coat implies that he like's to dabble in cross dressing which is untrue.
Good lord 🤣 For a start, would it be a bad thing if he did? Spike could walk around in a leather mini skirt and fishnet stockings for all I care. Furthermore, I've known plenty of guys in my time who've occasionally wore women's clothing if they really like it (and vice versa). I had one friend who used to wear a pair of women's jeans because he loved skinny jeans and he found a "women's" pair he really liked (you couldn't even tell). He'd probably laugh if you labelled him a "cross dresser."

The coat is originally a man's coat. Spike was wearing it in Season 2 which was filmed before Season 5. They gave the coat to Nikki to give it an origin.
No, Spike was wearing a coat you ASSUMED to be a man's coat until you learned it's origin in Season 5. Sorry but the moment they retconned it as being Nikki's coat that's canon and that retrospectively is true for S2-S4 as well. Whether it was a "man" or "woman's" coat from whatever store the costume department bought it from is entirely irrelevant to me because that's not canon. In RL Buffy's house also has no ceiling and instead had a bunch of set lights, but in the show it does. In the show this was Nikki's coat first and there's no evidence one way or the other that she bought a man's coat. Therefore, since it belonged to her, and I don't think it looks identifiably masculine, I'm going with calling it a woman's coat, sorry.
 
Last edited:
Bluebird
Bluebird
Yeah i wear clothes of the opposite sex, which doesn't make me a cross dresser. Christ on an actual bike.

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
8,085
Age
29
Good lord 🤣 For a start, would it be a bad thing if he did? Spike could walk around in a leather mini skirt and fishnet stockings for all I care. Furthermore, I've known plenty of guys in my time who've occasionally wore women's clothing if they really like it (and vice versa). I had one friend who used to wear a pair of women's jeans because he loved skinny jeans and he found a "women's" pair he really liked (you couldn't even tell). He'd probably laugh if you labelled him a "cross dresser."

No, Spike was wearing a coat you ASSUMED to be a man's coat until you learned it's origin in Season 5. Sorry but the moment they retconned it as being Nikki's coat that's canon and that retrospectively is true for S2-S4 as well. Whether it was a "man" or "woman's" coat from whatever store the costume department bought it from is entirely irrelevant to me because that's not canon. In RL Buffy's house also has no ceiling and instead had a bunch of set lights, but in the show it does. In the show this was Nikki's coat first and there's no evidence one way or the other that she bought a man's coat. Therefore, since it belonged to her, and I don't think it looks identifiably masculine, I'm going with calling it a woman's coat, sorry.
Buffy's house was a set for practicality issues, in the first season it was an actual house. Spike's coat is a man's coat that was given to JM to wear from Season 2 onwards. It was given to the stuntwoman to wear for its origin story in FFL but it is still the same coat given to JM to wear in Season 2 therefore it is a man's coat worn by a woman, not a woman's coat worn by a man.

Also, if you want to go down the road of "what happens later in the series retroactively becomes canon for earlier in the series" then please do explain how Sunnydale can have docks in Season 2 and 3, yet be completely landlocked in Season 7.
 

vampmogs

Potential
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
412
Age
31
Buffy's house was a set for practicality issues, in the first season it was an actual house. Spike's coat is a man's coat that was given to JM to wear from Season 2 onwards. It was given to the stuntwoman to wear for its origin story in FFL but it is still the same coat given to JM to wear in Season 2 therefore it is a man's coat worn by a woman, not a woman's coat worn by a man.
Sorry;

1) Do you know specifically what store the costume department got the coat from and whether it was in fact labelled a man's coat? Or are you assuming the costume department bought a man's coat because JM's character was a man? Why couldn't it have been a woman's coat that the costume team really liked? Or a unisex coat?
2) There's no difference. If RL dictates what is or isn't true then Buffy's house has no roof, the walls wobble, Sunnydale cemetery is in fact the WB parking lot, and vampires don't turn to dust or, like, even exist. In-verse the coat was originally worn by a woman and you have no proof whatsoever Nikki was buying men's clothing. Ergo, I can think whatever I like, and I choose to think Spike was wearing a woman's coat :)

Also, if you want to go down the road of "what happens later in the series retroactively becomes canon for earlier in the series" then please do explain how Sunnydale can have docks in Season 2 and 3, yet be completely landlocked in Season 7.
What are you trying to say here though? So you're saying in canon that Spike's coat isn't Nikki's coat until it magically becomes Nikki's coat in S5 and then is Nikki's coat in the 1970's but then is not Nikki's coat through S2-S4 until it is from Fool For Love and beyond? Hamnoo? Obviously the flashbacks in Fool For Love inform and "fill in" details about Spike's past that retrospectively change how we look back on the entire series. So, yes, if Fool For Love tells us that it is in fact Nikki's coat, then that's now true of S2-S4 as well. You just didn't know it yet.
 
Last edited:

NileQT87

Billowy Coat, King of Pain
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
455
Age
33
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
The jacket is 100% a man's jacket purchase. They're actually tailored differently.

Nikki could very well have been wearing a man's coat. Maybe it was Li's, who was the father of Robin. But she was absolutely wearing a coat tailored for a man. It's really not a crazy concept that a woman wears a man's jacket, especially that of a lover. She may have bought it despite it being tailored for a masculine frame or was given it.

I can speak from experience that I often found myself wearing my 6'4" father's jackets (extra long sleeves) when I forgot to bring one. It's not unusual. My mother even had the sleeves shortened from one of my late father's jackets to wear around the house.

Buffy herself wore Angel's leather jacket for a big chunk of season 1, though it seems to have shrunk a lot of sizes to the point where the sleeves didn't have to be rolled up anymore (they're very rolled up when she first starts wearing it) and she's not swimming in it, which suggests she got it tailored (or more likely, the costume department bought two jackets with the first being DB's size and then another that was SMG's).
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom