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Lorne's silent anguish.

Old Master 3.0

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In "Not Fade Away", right before Lorne shoots Lindsey, he says "I've heard you sing." Could that have had a deeper meaning?

Lindsey used to sing at Caritas....singing since LONG before he lost his hand.

Also in a late Season five eppie, Lorne is sitting in a bar talking about how sick he is of telling people what they want to hear instead of the truth, and also about his drinking problem.

The thing I am asking is....has Lorne always known that Lindsay would die by his hand?

It certainly would explain his drinking problem. Lorne is such a hater of violence, and the idea of him as a cold-blooded murderer could well have driven him to the bottle.

It could also explain his increasing withdrawal from the gang. Over the course of the season, Lorne disappears for long periods with strange excuses. Now, a lot of people simply have attributed that to the writers finding it difficult to give Lorne a more expanded role for the season....but it could also be that since Lindsey's reappearance, Lorne had known that the time to kill him was rapidly approaching.

Did Lorne know, right back from his first appearance on ANGEL, that he was going to be Lindsey's killer?




.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Wow, what a great point!!! I'll have to give it some thought and return to this.
Tome
Tome
VEryyyyyyyyyyy interestiiiing :D

Beer_Nut

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Definitely a good question. I think you are on to something here. The "I've heard you sing" line definitely seems to point that way. I think he might have known that he would eventually kill Lindsey.

The only other explanation is that, having heard Lindsey sing, he knew that he would remain "evil" and would do horrible things later if Lorne didn't kill him.

It really could go either way. I don't really think that his absence from the show was to do with this though. I tend to think they had a hard time placing him in the scheme of things at W&H. Especially since they really fulfilled his role with W&H in the episode near the beginning of S.5 with the party (sorry, can't remember the name). His character just didn't fit with the stories that were set for the season, especially since Spike's arrival there were too many elements for the writers to incorporate.

But back to the origianl point, you definitely got my attention and I wonder what everyone else's opinions are.
 

Jacklyn

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That is a very interesting opinion. It is true that this could be the meaning of Lorne's absence. But I have to think that, while it may explain Lorne's strange behavior, I do think that he was not in the show very much simply because they weren't sure where to go with his character. But that is a VERY interesting way of looking at it.
 

Spikesgurl235

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Very interesting view of the matter. I always thought the drinking was because of Fred's death, or at least that was the implied meaning, but an underlying point could have been the Lindsey thing. I'm sure he wasn't seen in the season partly because the writers didn't know what to do with him, and because he never really "fit in" with the whole W&H crowd, and it never settled right with him.
There is a big possibility that Lorne did know that Lindsey would die at his hands. That would explain many of Lorne's actions, especially throughout this season. I'll definitley have to think about this one for a while.
 

Mulder22

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Very interesting theory. The "I've heard you sing" line still gives me chills when I watch it. I think that Lorne knew Lindsey would never fully change and would always be out for himself. For that reason he was too much of a risk to join the Fang Gang. Angel knew this as did Lorne. I do like your theory though, it is interesting and may indeed be right.
 
W
WickedWillow2
Exactly. Everyone knew the kind of guy Lindsey really was. He could not be trusted, no matter what.

LadyLavinia

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Mulder22 said:
Very interesting theory. The "I've heard you sing" line still gives me chills when I watch it. I think that Lorne knew Lindsey would never fully change and would always be out for himself. For that reason he was too much of a risk to join the Fang Gang. Angel knew this as did Lorne. I do like your theory though, it is interesting and may indeed be right.

Why do people think it was okay for Lorne to murder Lindsey because the latter might be a threat in the future? What is this? Sounds like fans are desperately trying to find an excuse to deal with a favorite character's bad behavior. And it doesn't wash with me. Lorne had committed murder. He had done wrong. I don't care if Lindsey might have been a future threat. He wasn't an immediate threat at the time. There is NO EXCUSE for what Lorne . . . and Angel had done. I wish people would stop making excuses and realize that they are responsible for the cold-blooded murder of Lindsey McDonald, and in the end, proved to be no better than what Lindsey used to be . . . or could be in the future.
 

ProphecyGirl

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I've never actually understood Lorne's power though. I thought it simply shown an immediate path. Did he ever see something that far ahead? I guess he somewhat has (the Las Vegas days) but these people seemingly were about to go on the path to their brilliant futures.
 

Mulder22

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LadyLavinia said:
Why do people think it was okay for Lorne to murder Lindsey because the latter might be a threat in the future? What is this? Sounds like fans are desperately trying to find an excuse to deal with a favorite character's bad behavior. And it doesn't wash with me. Lorne had committed murder. He had done wrong. I don't care if Lindsey might have been a future threat. He wasn't an immediate threat at the time. There is NO EXCUSE for what Lorne . . . and Angel had done. I wish people would stop making excuses and realize that they are responsible for the cold-blooded murder of Lindsey McDonald, and in the end, proved to be no better than what Lindsey used to be . . . or could be in the future.

I wasn't trying to say what Lorne and Angel did was right. I was just saying that I think that is what their excuse or reason for doing it was. I agree with you that it was cold-blooded murder. If Angel wanted to kill everyone who MIGHT pose a future threat then the first person he should kill should be himself. If he loses his soul he is one of the biggest threats ever.
 

Lindseyiswicked

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yeah, pretty much everyone on his team has been a threat. Him, and Illyria are the first that come to mind. Illyria is still powerful and not really a good guy so...
 

palabravampiress

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Yes, I didn't understand why they had Lorne kill Lindsey, either. That was never really explained, and it really did bother me. If Lindsey wasn't a mole working for the senior partners or the black thorn or someone, then what reason was there to kill him? Was it just because he was a witness to the anti-black thorn plot? Also, Angel killed Droggyn to get in with the Black Thorn. So that's one conspiracy to commit murder charge and one actual murder charge that we could lay at his door, plus one murder charge for Lorne. I don't have a problem with the Droggyn thing, though. It's unfortunate, but he was a necessary casualty of war. I see that a lot like I see Giles' killing of Ben so that Glory couldn't re-emerge and renew her apocalypse plan. Lindsey's death? I'm not so clear on how I feel about that one.
 

WickedWillow2

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I was ok with Lorne killing Lindsey, but it was like..WOW. You didn't expect it like that. I never liked the guy so it was ok with me. Something about Lorne though is what made it feel worse. I think because he is such a geniunely wonderful guy/demon that you feel his pain.
 

Faiths Angel

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I'll agree with everyone that it was definitely unexpected to see Lorne kill Lindsey. But perhaps but Lorne's comment of "I've heard you sing" means something else...

Now, it's been a while since I've seen AS5, but at the end, Lindsey wanted to fight alongside Team Angel and help save the day, right? What if Lorne's comment meant that what he'd seen in Lindsey's future wasn't bad. What if Lindsey was to become a powerful ally? And that's the reason he was so sad about having to kill Lindsey, because he'd seen what could have been with his future, and the only reason he killed him was because it was an order from Angel?
 

LorneyTunes

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I am going to start crying , Poor Lorne knowing what Lindsey could do , saying hes the problem , and poor Lindsey getting shot by Lorne ! Shame putting Lorne in that situation , making him take a life :(
 

Frketson

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I'll agree with everyone that it was definitely unexpected to see Lorne kill Lindsey. But perhaps but Lorne's comment of "I've heard you sing" means something else...

Now, it's been a while since I've seen AS5, but at the end, Lindsey wanted to fight alongside Team Angel and help save the day, right? What if Lorne's comment meant that what he'd seen in Lindsey's future wasn't bad. What if Lindsey was to become a powerful ally? And that's the reason he was so sad about having to kill Lindsey, because he'd seen what could have been with his future, and the only reason he killed him was because it was an order from Angel?
i believe that if angel did see some good in lindseys future he would have spoken up. I think linsey probably would help them for now and turn his back on them later and thats what Lorne saw.

I felt sorry for both linsey and Lorne, Lindsey for dying haha and Lorne for actually having to kill someone in cold blood.
 

SpikesAngel

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That death really hit me. On the one hand I love Lindsey and I was so shocked that he had to die.

On the other hand there was Lorne. I felt so sorry for him... I knew he didn't really want to. It must've been really hard for him.
I never understood why Angel wanted HIM to do that.

The fact that Lindsey died is worse for me, though. Everybody I like in Angel dies... And he was kind of my favorite :sad24:

As for your theory: I always thought that Lorne saw that Lindsey would turn his back on them again but I actually like this theory much more and I think I'm going to believe in this one from now on.
 

Lindsey McDonald

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I'll agree with everyone that it was definitely unexpected to see Lorne kill Lindsey. But perhaps but Lorne's comment of "I've heard you sing" means something else...

Now, it's been a while since I've seen AS5, but at the end, Lindsey wanted to fight alongside Team Angel and help save the day, right? What if Lorne's comment meant that what he'd seen in Lindsey's future wasn't bad. What if Lindsey was to become a powerful ally? And that's the reason he was so sad about having to kill Lindsey, because he'd seen what could have been with his future, and the only reason he killed him was because it was an order from Angel?
I love OM's theory. It maintains a certain intricacy, whilst actually being quite plausable that the writers intended it.

This is the one that I think was probably the case though. If not that Lorne saw Lindsey would be good, that he saw he could be. Lorne would hate snuffing that out.
 

Old Master 3.0

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I am resurrecting this long-dead and dusty old thread, as I am quite interested in seeing the opinions on this subject from this newer generation of BBer. :: tu ::
 

HisMrs

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Wow, great thread idea...
I have never really thought about if Lorne knew he was going to kill Lindsey or not, but I always knew there was something more to the softspoken "I've heard you sing" in "Not Fade Away".
I think your theory is very plausible... And if that was the writers' intent, then it's very sad.
 

Tome

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Great theory, Walternate!

That makes you wonder if Lorne already knew that Angel would ask him, and by so, knew that he would end up being close with Angel, from the beginning.
 
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