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Magic should not equal Drugs

Is Magic An Acceptable Allegory For Drugs?

  • Yes, it works as a metaphor

    Votes: 17 45.9%
  • No, it does not work as a metaphor

    Votes: 20 54.1%

  • Total voters
    37
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Is this something actually confirmed in the show, or just what fans have read into the subtext of his Ripper days?
Willow: Wait. Hey, listen. 'Once called, Eyghon can also take possession of the dead, but its demonic energy soon disintegrates the host, and it must jump to the nearest dead or unconscious person to continue living.'

Buffy: I still don't get what this has to do with Giles.

Willow: I don't know about Giles, but ancient sects used to induce possession for bacchanals and, and orgies.

*****

To paraphrase Tara: I am sure Giles summoned the demon of debauchery, because it helped him get really good at checkers.

Veering off topic: Considering the men-are-beasts message we often see in the Buffyverse: Jenny calls Giles a sexy fuddy daddy, which makes Giles all awkward. Then we learn that he wasn't always this cute and awkward old man, but that he used to be someone who really engaged his darker more sexual side. That's like classic Buffyverse subversion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

EarthLogic

Scooby
Joined
Sep 1, 2017
Messages
1,330
Location
London, UK
Black Thorn
Willow: Wait. Hey, listen. 'Once called, Eyghon can also take possession of the dead, but its demonic energy soon disintegrates the host, and it must jump to the nearest dead or unconscious person to continue living.'

Buffy: I still don't get what this has to do with Giles.

Willow: I don't know about Giles, but ancient sects used to induce possession for bacchanals and, and orgies.

*****

To paraphrase Tara: I am sure Giles summoned the demon of debauchery, because it helped him get really good at checkers.
Ok thanks. I couldn't remember if it was ever actually stated anywhere. Which episode is that Tara paraphrase from?
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,075
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
He was in Giles's sex orgy club.
I am not talking about his past, though we should not that Giles Ripper-days refers to a whole period of his life, where he had demon sex many times and presumably did many other questionable tings,
This is pure speculation. We know that Giles shirked his Watcher duty and went on to party and stuff with his friends. No sex-club orgy was ever mentioned.
We don't not know- nor is it ever mentioned- he if blatantly went around hurting people with his magic. We know of one spell that went wrong that got people killed. We know that this one event changed Giles from Ripper back into Mr. Stuffy shirt again.

And while his shame did put Jenny Calendar (and Buffy) in danger it was mostly his ignorance towards Eyghon being alive that led to all his friends dying. It's not like he knew the demon was still out there and was willingly ignoring it.

I know many people who are drug users, but only one who became a serious addict.
But most drugs are inherently addictive though, which makes them distinctive from things like shopping and sex, which are merely things that people can be addicted to.
That's an important distinction; magic is more like sex in that respect.

Sure, he can share his wisdom, but it is hypocritical to be so judgemental about it.
Giles has spent plenty of time cautioning Willow about her use of magic and about her moving to quickly and she happily ignored him. In S3 and 4 she simply works around him plenty of times or does magic on her own when she's not in the best mental place.
So maybe its about time he put a bit more steel into his voice and tells her that she's like a child wielding a toy sometimes, and that she never seems to be the one getting hurt.

Utilitarianism is a form of ethics. It is important to note that Willow's utilitarianism and lack of respect for received wisdom is often very useful to the group.
If Willow stuck to utilitarianism all the time- that would be one thing- but she doesn't; when she is hurting then that is all that matters and she'll do what she wants, damn the consequences.
This not only harms many people but also almost ends the world. So her mindset is ultimately incredibly harmful. I mean, at least she figures that out in S7 when Giles does the supportive, non-judgemental thing that you seem to want.
 

brittles

Scooby
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
56
Sineya
No it doesn't work. Because we are flat out told in S7 that magic is NOT an addiction.

Willow was addicted to magic in the same way everyone with power is. She wanted an easy road, fix whatever she thought needed fixing, to make herself feel better, to feel important and all that stuff. Willow was on a power trip, not a drug trip. There is a difference.

Right but the medium through which she feels and gains this sense of power and importance is through magic. She can't stop doing it which makes it an addiction in her case.
 
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