• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Male jealousy in the Buffyverse

Alittlegrim

Stuck In The Middle
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
198
Likes
179
Age
38
Location
thetechteatime.blogspot.ca
#41
That's a fair point about being blind-sided. At first I thought he was being a bit homophobic considering how angry and rough he got with her. Though I think now that it wasn't because Willow was with a girl or even that she was with someone else at all so much as he had no idea. He did say "we talked all night and she didn't say anything like that."
 
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
16,877
Likes
7,015
Black Thorn
#42
@thrasherpix Dude, it was only one season. The rate they were going it would be everywhere in subsequent seasons. It took time for BtVS and AtS to really build up the jealousy angles. As much as there was in the first season of Firefly it would have been worse in the long run.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Fair enough. And I wasn't happy to see old patterns recurring in Heart of Gold (which I did not think matched the characters) which was probably a sign it just needed more time before jealous-fest.

Alittlegrim

Stuck In The Middle
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
198
Likes
179
Age
38
Location
thetechteatime.blogspot.ca
#43
I can excuse Oz for freaking out. He probably believed Willow had forgiven him and was about to take him back, and then he has to discover on his own that Willow has found someone else. He asks Tara to run, which was probably the best he could do.
That's true. It was the negative feeling of surprise and jealousy that brought on the change but I don't think he meant to hurt her. It is made fairly clearly that he is not really himself when he becomes the wolf. I don't think he would have done that if he stayed human. He would have been understandably angry but I don't think he would have attacked her.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
5,330
Likes
4,404
Age
27
#44
There is this paradox about Spike. He wants women who are strong, assertive and independent, but he expects eternal devotion and monogamy.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive of each other. In fact, I'd say it's perfectly reasonable to want a partner to be faithful to you even if they are a "strong, assertive and independent" woman.

IThe reason Spike hates Angelus is that Angelus slept with Drusilla without loving her, which, in Spike's eyes, made him unworthy of her.
I agree. I also think there was a much darker undercurrent to Dru/Angelus that Spike knew about which wasn't explored in depth eg Angelus "trained" Drusilla to respond to him in that way. Dru NEVER ditched Spike for Angelus, she was sleeping with BOTH men. If you notice though, whenever Dru shows affection for Spike, Angelus is the one always intercepting and pulling her away from Spike.

Riley totally went postal on Buffy. Multiple times. I mean, how can you even compare? He was so oppressive at one point it led to Buffy having to backpedal all the time and not even feel like she could be herself without apologising for her past, and for her exes, etc.
I completely agree. I even made a thread on this topic. Riley was showing a lot of red flag behaviour towards Buffy in Season 5 and was too focussed on wanting Buffy to "need" him. He says that word a lot in regards to Buffy.

I tend to agree - funny in places but often tedious. I found this:

"Later in the evening, Fury was asked to please stop writing Spike as being stupid in all his episodes. Fury was confused, and said when did he write Spike as stupid. He was told that someone says he's stupid in every episode. He again asked for examples. The puppet ep was mentioned -- he pointed out he didn't write that one. :) He then added that "Spike isn't stupid. Angel calls him stupid, but that's just because he's jealous of him." Spoiler Slayer: ATS: David Fury Comments

I'm not sure I agree with it in its entirety but I think if Fury's right it's probably because we get Angel's POV more so than Spike's.
I don't think Spike is stupid, but his competency level did go down once Spuffy became a thing in Season 5. A lot of Spike's plans in Season 2 were only thwarted because of outside interference and the fact the couldn't win because he was a villain eg:

School Hard- Spike nearly kills Buffy but is stopped by Joyce hitting him with an axe which catches him by surprise. (He did kill the annoying one though and take over his turf- Vampire hierarchy)

Halloween- Nearly kills Buffy but is thwarted by Giles breaking Ethan's spell and returning everyone to normal which catches him by surprise.

Lie to me- Would've succeeded with killing everyone in the vampire club if Drusilla hadn't been taken hostage by Buffy (which is the sole plot device reason that Drusilla was there since she didn't partake in the feeding frenzy).

What's my line Parts 1&2- Successfully captures Angel and performs the ritual to restore Drusilla to health. It literally only goes wrong because Willy brings Buffy to the church, had that not happened then Angel would be dead because he only had "5 minutes" left.

Spike obviously stayed out of conflict with Buffy whilst he was wheelchair bound but he "wins" and gets Dru out of town when he's fighting on Buffy's side.

Come Season 5, the only plan of Spike's that is almost successful is when he nearly gets the chip removed, which coincidentally is BEFORE he "realised" he had feelings for Buffy.

Xander is the biggest Briley shipper out there. Lol.
Given Riley's Season 5 behaviour, that is not a good reflection on Xander.

Except when he nearly kills Tara.
New Moon Rising was the only time Oz was mildly interesting in my opinion. Every other time, he was just....there. With the exception of the Oz centrics, you can normally take him out of an episode and the episode would not change.
 

WillowFromBuffy

Extra flamy candles!
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
3,692
Likes
6,738
#45
I couldn't disagree more, @DeadlyDuo Spike is a much more powerful and dangerous character from Fool For Love to Seeing Red than he ever was in S2.

You say that it wasn't Spike's fault that these plans failed. Well, most of them weren't his plans to begin with.
School Hard- Spike nearly kills Buffy but is stopped by Joyce hitting him with an axe which catches him by surprise. (He did kill the annoying one though and take over his turf- Vampire hierarchy)
His plan is basically: Go in with a bunch of guys and smash the gaff up.
Halloween- Nearly kills Buffy but is thwarted by Giles breaking Ethan's spell and returning everyone to normal which catches him by surprise.
Spike was not involved in Ethan's ploy, so he can't take credit for Buffy being in a vulnerable condition.
Lie to me- Would've succeeded with killing everyone in the vampire club if Drusilla hadn't been taken hostage by Buffy (which is the sole plot device reason that Drusilla was there since she didn't partake in the feeding frenzy).
He had no involvement in creating this trap. Why did he bring a weak Drusilla to kill Buffy anyway?
What's my line Parts 1&2- Successfully captures Angel and performs the ritual to restore Drusilla to health. It literally only goes wrong because Willy brings Buffy to the church, had that not happened then Angel would be dead because he only had "5 minutes" left.
Kendra and Willy captured Angel. Spike got him delivered on a platter.
Spike obviously stayed out of conflict with Buffy whilst he was wheelchair bound but he "wins" and gets Dru out of town when he's fighting on Buffy's side.
This was actually clever. I mean, it would hardly take a genius to come up with this plan, but well done, Spike.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
5,330
Likes
4,404
Age
27
#46
I couldn't disagree more, @DeadlyDuo Spike is a much more powerful and dangerous character from Fool For Love to Seeing Red than he ever was in S2.
I disagree. Spike might've been in closer contact with the scoobies in Season 5 onwards, but he was never going to harm them because it wouldn't benefit him to do so. Spike in Seasons 2- The initiative in Season 4 was a much more dangerous threat to the scoobies. He would've killed Willow if his chip hadn't fired. Spike almost kills Buffy several times in Season 2, from Season 5 onwards he gets beaten up a lot by Buffy.

His plan is basically: Go in with a bunch of guys and smash the gaff up.
The original plan was to attack the slayer on the night of St Vigeous when the vampires were at there strongest (which the scoobies were preparing for). Spike attacked on the Thursday because he "couldn't wait" therefore giving him the element of surprise. Had Joyce not hit him with axe, he would've killed Buffy. Joyce caught him by surprise as he later complains to Drusilla "A slayer with family and friends, that sure as hell wasn't in the brochure."

Spike was not involved in Ethan's ploy, so he can't take credit for Buffy being in a vulnerable condition.
Spike was going to stay in on Halloween and it's Dru who told him that something would make the slayer weak and Spike took advantage of that. He hunted Buffy down and was so close to killing her, had Giles not broken Ethan's spell at that exact moment, Buffy would be dead.

He had no involvement in creating this trap. Why did he bring a weak Drusilla to kill Buffy anyway?
Drusilla's purpose in that scene was literally as a plot device for Buffy to use against Spike. Had she not been there, what would Buffy have done? She'd be massively outnumbered and there would be multiple victims that she couldn't save. By having Drusilla present, the writers gave Buffy leverage to use over Spike which halts all the attacks, frees all the kids and gets Buffy out of a situation that would've probably led to her death since she wouldn't have her friends to back her up.

Kendra and Willy captured Angel. Spike got him delivered on a platter.
And everything was going smoothly until Willy turned up at the church with Buffy. Had that not happened, the ritual would've been completed and Angel would be dead since he only had "5 minutes" left when Buffy showed up.

This was actually clever. I mean, it would hardly take a genius to come up with this plan, but well done, Spike.
It was a great risk on Spike's part as Buffy could've staked him on sight, but he still successfully negotiated a get out of jail free card for him and Dru. Buffy wanted to kill Dru so Spike played the odds and used Dru as the dealbreaker: his help in return for Dru's safety otherwise no deal. Buffy wouldn't have been able to take all 3 vampires on, she would've struggled taking both Angelus and Dru on (she struggled too long with the minion vamp which gave Angelus time to pull the sword from Acathla). By keeping Drusilla out of the fray, Spike saved Buffy's life and he definitely saved Giles life in Passion by keeping Drusilla out of the fight.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
5,330
Likes
4,404
Age
27
#48
Wasn't sure where to put this so I'm adding it here. In Season 3, the mayor asks Angel why it couldn't work out between him and Faith and Angel replies something along the lines of "What can I say, I like 'em sane" in regards to romantic relationships with women.

It's very likely that Angelus feels the same way in regards to women. We know that Angelus drove Dru insane for fun but also he slept with her. Now it's clear Angelus doesn't love Dru and he does it just to wind Spike up. Maybe that's why Spike allied himself with Buffy because it was all about Dru. Spike loves Dru so it must've hurt like hell to see her be used like she was so shamelessly by Angelus.

Perhaps Spike's actions in Becoming weren't so selfishly motivated by jealousy as they appeared? Yes he wanted Dru for himself again, but he also didn't want her to continue being used by Angelus. His alliance with Buffy wasn't just about ensuring Dru's safety but also about getting her out of an unpleasant situation.
 
Top Bottom