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More guns?

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
Should the scoobies have used more guns? Would that make it more or less realistic? If so, What kind of guns would they carry?
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
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Guns are noisy (getting the cops out there) and don't seem to do much good anyway. Shoot a vampire and he's angry. Fire a wooden bolt through one in the right way (or even a friggin pencil!) and he's dust, no muss, no fuss, no cops all over the place. Despite how tradition bound demons (including vampires) are, notable exceptions aside, it would seem to beg for an arms race as well (and Buffy was so damn lucky the Order of Taraka apparently didn't let snipers into their organization...).

Guns have other risks, including friendly fire....in some cases accidentally shooting someone you can't even see.

Buffy lost a stake to a vampire once or twice, what if it was a gun?

Contrary to popular belief, the law actually frowns mightily on kids carrying guns, even in "gun friendly" states, especially for "self-defense." (And even if there are no bodies or anything like that, using a gun in self-defense a lot would itself inspire a lot of suspicion at best from...well, everyone.) This is especially true in California.

If the Potentials weren't on the scene, then I'd say season 7 (when the town is abandoned) would be a good time for a shotgun, though more against evil humans taking advantage of the sitch (but they'd probably be useful against Bringers...but hope the cops aren't still around, especially with them feeling the Hellmouth vibes). And now I am curious if a few blasts from a shotgun could indeed wear Caleb down (in video game terms, shortening his life bar so the Slayers don't have to fight as hard). Heh, Caleb laughing at the Potentials only for Buffy to yell, "Fire!" (Even then those flame throwers like in s3 would be better, I'm sure, especially if there's a lot of alcohol around.)

Now tasers! Those are like magic in the Buffyverse, and even the Initiative essentially used souped up tasers. So is chloroform (for Slayers anyway, though that one was as cringe-worthy as Willow taking a vampire out with a pencil).


Now that I think about it...didn't Riley use friggin grenades in s5? Holy crap! :eek:
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
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It would make sense, especially for the characters without superpowers. Which is why Wesley took them up, I guess. However, it's not the Story Joss wanted to tell. Now, there is a Urban Fantasy book series called "Monster Hunter International" by a Larry Correia where the characters love guns like Thanos loves Sandman's Death. The first book in the series is a free ebook, and I think it's a good substitute for Buffy, with guns and better world building. But I agree, I get Joss's aversion, but it's still a plot hole.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Should the scoobies have used more guns? Would that make it more or less realistic? If so, What kind of guns would they carry?
I think Joss was very anti-gun hence why you have Buffy making a comment "these things, never useful" and why Warren used a gun to kill Tara and shoot Buffy. To have the scoobies toting guns about would normalise carrying a gun and take away a little of the awfulness of Tara's death. As @thrasherpix points out, most guns aren't much use against demons or vampires and are more likely to escalate a situation than solve it. The rocket launcher against the Judge was only of use because it separated the Judges body parts and destroyed them so he couldn't be reassembled, a normal gun wouldn't have been much use.
 
Joined
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Black Thorn
Guns are noisy, and in a small town it probably won't go unnoticed - especially as it isn't supernatural so it's something they are more likely to pay attention to. Also, without the proper training they are going to be risky, especially since a lot of times it includes someone in danger who could be at risk by a stray bullet. We also need to consider the guns getting into the wrong hands, so they would have to be kept at Giles' house, there is no way keeping a weapon capable of mass killings in a library of a high school would ever go well, but if they are at Giles' they are too far away. Although, keeping them in the basement at the Magic Box would probably be adequate. As well as this, as people have already said, they aren't much use against a lot of demons, and they could potentially lose them to a vamp, making the risk of bringing a gun really not worth it.
 

DeadlyDuo

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But they are against humans; I don't know why only Darla and Warren were the only ones to ever try to shoot Buffy.
Don't forget Spike who planned to shoot Buffy but changed his mind.

Also it would be unrealistic for Buffy to be shot at 144 times (once per episode) and survive all of them. Plot armour can only believably extend so far.

Overall though, I think the smart demons try to avoid the slayer whilst the non-sentient ones don't know how to work guns and just prefer their natural weapons.

Vampires generally also try to avoid the slayer and they don't need guns to capture their prey. If anything, carrying a gun gives their prey a chance to defend themselves should they get a hold of it. Being shot won't kill a vampire but it would hurt and slow them down, vampires want their prey defenceless.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
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In MHI, Hunters use hollow tip bullets filled with silver pellets designed to explode upon impact. Vampires can't regenerate around silver. Of course, you can pull a RoboCop on them, and just fire enough lead bullets until there is nothing left to regenerate.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
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I can just hear the Sunnydale PD.

"Sure are a lot of fireworks being set off tonight."

"Yeah, but better than the gangs taking PCP. I think I'll let it slide."

"Me, too. Say what happened to your nightstick?"

"Little accident with my saw in my basement. Little too sharp, I know, but not going to replace it over some trivial damage."

"Say, uh, could you have another accident with your saw on MY nightstick?"

"Sure, we'll just have to head back to my place, but let's go AROUND where the fireworks are going off. Don't want to have to give any tickets to any gangs on PCP there."

"That reminds me, have the fake, er, completely legite fireworks stand the papers keep asking about been put in place yet? Are they actually going to sell fireworks?"

"Quick in the car. The gangs on PCP and people shooting off fireworks are headed this way!"
 

telperion66

Potential
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I don't know if they should have used more guns, I guess it was just stronger from a narrative point of view that they did not.

But as for your question, it is both beautiful and hilarious! x
 

white avenger

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In MHI, Hunters use hollow tip bullets filled with silver pellets designed to explode upon impact.
Unfortunately, in the Buffyverse, unlike the Blade or Monster Hunter International universes. silver apparently doesn't effect a vampire, though I recall some werewolf hunter who used them coming to Sunnydale. I wouldn't have been surprised if the Initiative had some sort of specialized ammunition, though we never saw anything of the nature on the show, unless, possibly, in the episode where Angel comes back to Sunnydale and he and Riley have their little smackdown. At the end, Riley threatened Angel with his handgun, though he certainly would have known that regular ammunition wouldn't effect Angel. In order to be any sort of threat, it would have had to be loaded with some sort of special ammunition. Incendiary, perhaps? Fire will kill, or at least injure, most demons or vampires.

As far as why very few guns were used on the show, no doubt the network at least, and probably Joss as well, would have objected to having Buffy and her friends using firearms, since for most of the run of the show, it would have been illegal for them to posses, let alone carry them. (Of course, as far as that goes, teenagers running around swinging swords and battle axes, or even large knives, or shooting crossbows, would have thrown the police into apoplectic shock as well.)

This discussion brings to mind a book that I read many years ago about a vampire hunter. Someone asked him at one point if he used silver bullets to kill vampires, to which he replied, "No, everyone knows that silver won't hurt a vampire." "Well," the other asked, "has anyone ever actually tried it?" Maybe the Watchers and Slayers never actually tried. That would be truly ironic.
 

Spanky

Scooby
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Black Thorn
At the end, Riley threatened Angel with his handgun, though he certainly would have known that regular ammunition wouldn't effect Angel. In order to be any sort of threat, it would have had to be loaded with some sort of special ammunition.
I doubt he needed special ammunition; standard, everyday hollow point bullets would do a ton of damage to him and Angel was kinda a wimp sometimes when it came to things like that.
 
NileQT87
NileQT87
The guy who gets his torso riddled with bullets (and still jumps off a balcony with someone in his arms), gets a 2x4 rammed through his stomach, a rebar through his shoulder, jumps off a pier on fire and takes faceplants out of skyscrapers is a wimp?

white avenger

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standard, everyday hollow point bullets
It didn't occur to me at first that Riley wouldn't be actually counting on killing Angel with his gun. Possibly he was only hoping to injure Angel sufficiently to allow him time to improvise some sort of wooden stake, 15 rounds of 9 mm would certainly sting, and if he picked his target properly, might blind him, pretty much ending the fight then and there, since we've seen that vampires in the Buffyverse regenerate from massive wounds slowly, if at all. That's assuming that he managed to get off that many rounds before Buffy stopped him in a very painful way. Might have made for an interesting scene.

On that thought, since this thread is about firearms, I've always wondered if a full load of buckshot at close range might not have pretty much decapitated a vampire, in effect dusting it. That, also, might have made for an interesting scene, and also explained why Wes on more than one occasion used a shotgun.
 
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More guns would have taken the fun out of things. The first 2 minutes of each episode shows Buffy blowing away all the bad guys and then spending the rest of the episode cleaning her gun? Na. Guns sets a tone, that tone wasn't Buffy.
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
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Sineya
There was an episode of True Blood where a man killed a vampire with a shotgun shell loaded with an oak bullet. But I concur with @Thieving gypsy, guns don't make for good drama. In the same sense, Buffy could have used a flamethrower in "Chosen" but that would have been less suspenseful than what we got.
 

white avenger

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More guns would have taken the fun out of things.
guns don't make for good drama.
I don't know so much about "fun," but, under the right circumstances, guns can definitely make for good drama. Look at the first scene in the original "Blade" movie, when Snipes steps into the room full of vampires and starts shooting. And it's not just senseless slaughter, mowing down a bunch of cowering victims. He uses blades, some sort of edged boomerang and martial arts, It's an actual fight, in quarters close enough that the vampires are actually within striking distance. It's one man against dozens, and the outcome actually is in question.

Obviously, a scene like that wouldn't work on Buffy's show, because her fights are almost exclusively one-on-one. That's the main objection that I have always had about the final fight in Season 7 There were just too many ubervamps and Bringers to make something like that work properly without Spike's amulet, and depending on a deus ex machina like that is just plain lazy writing. Having the graduating class in Season 3 holding off a gang of the Mayor's minions while Buffy blew up the school, with him in it, was a stretch, but possible. The battle in the Hellmouth should have been a scene out of "Blade 4," if it had ever been made.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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If a character solved problems in the most logical way, you wouldn't have a tv show.
 

Spanky

Scooby
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Black Thorn
@NileQT87 How many of those events happened on Buffy? From my recollection they happened on his show where he was portrayed as the hero. On Buffy he was always second or third fiddle and not presented as the superhero he would later be shown as. So yeah, he would go running away and hide if getting shot with multiple rounds.
 
B
Btvs fan
Angelus used a gun in Ats S4
NileQT87
NileQT87
1x07 says the opposite of what you claimed. Got shot by Darla and then put an arrow through her back when she least expected it. He was also jumping two stories upwards and throwing his voice around the Bronze like the Master in the same scene.

Btvs fan

Scooby
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If a character solved problems in the most logical way, you wouldn't have a tv show.
Angelus used a gun in in Ats S4 and forces Faith to confess she doesn't want to die.
Wesley uses a gun all the time in S4 and S5
 
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