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Most overrated episode of Angel?

Discussion in 'Sunnydale Cemetery' started by Bluebird, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    I don't meant to rag on Angel, since I prefer it to Buffy. But there's a lot of discussion of Buffy episodes that are seen in high regard, Tabula Rasa for instance, that I didn't care for so much. It was another episode to me. Not terrible, but it didn't stand out.

    To me, an AtS episode like Waiting in the Wings is overrated. I understand artistically why it's liked but really there's not a massive amount of substance. I think it served its purpose by building up to the last scene of the episode with Fred and Wes and Wesley's heartbreak.

    It also doesn't help matters that the only reason they had a ballet episode was because Amy Acker could do ballet. Quite the flimsy excuse especially when Amy's scene was then cut.
     
  2. thetopher

    thetopher Member of the Church Of Faith

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    Sineya
    I agree, I've watched it, its a fun little outing but it isn't Joss-gold or anything.
    It does mark the last time the whole gang will be together and happy for a good long while though.


    I guess in general Angel as a series is seen as too underrated for me. It often seems unfavourably compared to Buffy when in really it does some things a hell of a lot better.
    But I take your point, some of the episodes are maybe kinda over-sold.

    The Shroud Of Rhamon- I watched this recently and I was surprised by how bad it was. Disjointed and somewhat nonsensical, I didn't really rate it that much.

    Belonging- A flat start to the Pylea arc that starts well with some really good characterisation and then turns into a one-note monster hunt. Meh.

    That Old Gang Of Mine- A lot of people rate this highly but I don't. Gunn seems so out of character and I can't stand Geo. Urgh.

    Birthday- A big one for me. I've never liked Cordy's alternate reality life or thought it realistic. Also it leads to the 'glow-ey demon powers' plot Made worse when you realise its all basically a trick by Skip to screw over Cordy's character.

    Destiny- I, to not put too finer point on it, hate this episode for its clumsy reconning, 'Shanshu' logic fails, and two pathetic man-children fighting over a girl (whether that girl is Drusilla or Buffy).
     
    Bluebird: The end of Birthday when Cordy is floating is silly too. Her 'powers' are never really explained.
    AnthonyCordova: +1 destiny; +1 cordy character assassination and inscrutible super power
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  3. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    Oh definitely. I think it is an underrated show overall. Angel's best episodes are some of the best TV I've seen.
     
  4. The Bronze

    The Bronze Rogue Demon Hunter

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    Black Thorn
    I think Angel is usually correctly rated. A fine show and great spin off that adds to the original but doesn't quite match it. I'm much worse at remembering the episode names for Angel but I do agree about Waiting in the Wings. It was all about the dreadful relationships that blighted Season 3.
     
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  5. Buffy Summers

    Buffy Summers Yataro Staff Member

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    Sineya
    Another vote for Waiting in the Wings lol
     
  6. Iwearthecheese

    Iwearthecheese Scooby

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    Fredless, Waiting In The Wings, Couplet- basically a lot of S3 which is my least favourite season of Angel.
     
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  7. vellavu

    vellavu Scooby

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    Black Thorn
    In The Dark: It's basically Where The Wild Things Are in Angel. The only good part is the start and the ending (just like the fact that the only good part of WTWTA is Giles and Anya/Spike). We have a prolonged torture exhibition the same as the prolonged Briley sex exhibition. What fun!

    I Will Remember You:
    Bangel dragged on through the whole Buffy S3, and they already broke up a trillion times. Now again? Pfft. It's a 5/10 episode while many websites rate it at 8/10 or more.

    Hero: It's a lesser copy of Wild At Heart. Doyle's demon relatives are Veruca. They came from nowhere just to give him an exit. It's a 7/10 episode while many websites rate it at 9/10 or more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
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  8. nightshade

    nightshade Watcher Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Smile Time.

    Got to agree with Waiting in the Wings and Destiny too
     
    Taake: Smile Time! Blasphemy! :P
    Anyanka Bunny Killer: Smile Time is WAY better when you're drunk. Trust me.
  9. Bluebird

    Bluebird two by two, hands of blue

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    Black Thorn
    As much as I enjoy Doyle having the heroic death and passing the visions to Cordy, the Scourge was the most lazy nazi reference I've ever seen. Tim Minear sometimes seems to forget what a metaphor is.
     
  10. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    But isn't the problem more that so many b-movies have pulled out the Nazi-demon metaphor than by 1999 it may seem dated to some. To me it worked very well, and was a logical place to go. I love that episode because of the mix of light and dark, and because Doyle's heroics at the end mean more when you consider what leads up to it.

     
  11. Monkey Pants

    Monkey Pants Bored Now

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    Black Thorn
    Definitely agree with I Will Remember You. I actually kind of hate that episode. All the fighting in the beginning is uncomfortable, and then I was just over them being together romantically. I'm usually not a fan of when Buffy or Angel go to each others' shows. Other characters, yes, but they are always OOC in my opinion.
     
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  12. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    I have mixed feelings on IWRY. But it does seem to be one which is talked of a lot as a landmark episode and I just don't see it in those terms. To me Buffy and Angel at that point had already had good closure and so it felt an un-wanted episode.
     
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  13. Root

    Root God-King of the Primordium

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    Black Thorn
    I also vote for Waiting in the Wings. I like the episode a lot because it's a unique scenario for AI to be in, but I don't hold it in as much of a high regard as some other fans do.
     
  14. Iwearthecheese

    Iwearthecheese Scooby

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    Ones that stand out imo:

    IWRY- shallow wish-y stuff really. Pure fluff. The Buffy/Cordy stuff is the most entertaining part.

    Disharmony- This character just didn't fit into Angel's world, and it showed. Can#'t think as to why Cordelia didn't shoot her.

    The Darla Pregnancy arc tended to drag and the return of teenage Conner felt like 2 episodes stretched out to 3.

    Not Fade Away- It's just not a proper ending. It felt like an 'f-you' to both the fans and the studio. 'You won't give me another season? Wel then I ain't finishing this one.' It made most of S5 feel like a big fat raspberry to me ('You're Welcome' is one of my favourite Angel episodes EVARRR!! though).
     
  15. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Disagree with both of those. I think it was a good idea to re-address the Cordy-Harmony relationship, and it was a good way to add to the character. As a one off I think it was fine. Not sure they should have bought Harmony back for season five though.

    Thought NFA was a great season finale. I don't mind them not wraping things up. It left things open for the viewer which is never a bad thing for me. It also sends the message than the battle is never truly over for Angel, or those fighting evil for that matter.
     
  16. Iwearthecheese

    Iwearthecheese Scooby

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    The Harmony/Cordy one is disappointing because nothing between them is resolved. By S5 Cordy is out of the picture when Harmony is around (never did figure out why)

    The 'NFA'- I get it but I just think its badly paced and over-rated. The Wes/Illyria stuff is fine, as is Angel/Connor but it felt like half an episode plot-wise. 'All hat and no cattle' as they say.
     
  17. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Yeah that could have made it worth while having Harmony back, but I do think disharmony is a good episode.

    You maybe right on NFA. Only seen it once and was really blown away, but my thoughts might change on the re-watch.
     
  18. Taake

    Taake Bella Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Another vote for Birthday. It was 'meh' all around, just another dramatic twist to make Cordy less Cordy in the end, and it made very little sense. Angel would've gone bonkers without Cordy? Oh please... *mutters*


    Agree.
     
  19. Fuffy Baith

    Fuffy Baith 2017 (and 2016) Cutest BB member

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    Sineya
    Yea I'd say Waiting in the Wings and Birthday also. I don't know Angel the show as well. I didn't really care for War Zone, Blind Date or To Sanshu in L.A. though. Might have to revisit them.
     
  20. AnthonyCordova

    AnthonyCordova Apocalypse Engine

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    Sineya
    i've got no real problems with birthday or i will remember you. not fade away was epic, and at the time, they did not know that this was their last episode (so i can't hold the incomplete status of the ending against it). And to be fair, i don't read or hear much about episodes being hyped up as much on AtS as some episodes were for BtVS, so it feels like a stretch to call an Angel episode overrated, per se.

    i will say i think an episode like You're welcome is highly rated partly because it appeals to the soap-quality of the show, and most fans i would say are highly invested in that type of thing, whereas for me the shipper/soap stuff is the unwanted distraction. an episode like BtVS amends works perfectly for me, but many of the shipper-centric or soapy/relationship important episodes pander to the baser appetites of fans...more than i prefer. But in the case of You're Welcome I think it is executed well, and i like the episode, so i can't say it is overrated for me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016