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Mr Trick Does the Angel rewatch thingy

Carrie Hopewell

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Sineya
Well Angel needed to do something other than mope all the time.

Ugh. He did not mope all the time! The way he behaved in season 3 was completely not true to character. He's a stoic, emotional restrained person. Even when he's happiest (Buffy S2 for example), he's not a happy-go-lucky guy. Nor will he ever be. If they wanted to make his character less broody, their job was to find a way to do so in character and convincingly and if they wanted a non broody person, they should have based the spin off on someone else.

AAAAAND That's exactly what I say about all the plot issues in 'The Gift' and 'Chosen'. :p

Not true! :p

Good night, then. :)

I'm not going to bed yet. I should be going to bed, but now I'm reading fanfiction ;) But thanks!
 

Stoney

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But some of that has to be simply put down to the fact that its a TV show and that the writers of the show have decided that Harmony still has a role to play in future episodes. Maybe they could have come up with a more convicing excuse for her not to be killed, but that is part of it I think. Its similiar to how you know within reason that the lead character of television show is not going to be killed off because there would be no show next week without them.

I kinda like the circular nature of Harmony's character arc (or lack thereof), because harmony was always presented as "Cordelia, if she couldn't change". It's fascinating to me, the way Harmony always comes to the brink of growing as a person... And then regresses. I would honestly be disappointed if Harmony ever grew up and changed. I love her as a constant reminder of what Buffy and Cordelia used to be.

I wouldn't want an entire season of Harmony-centric episodes, but I really love her as a recurring character.

Sure I know that some characters have plot armour so that they can be used again and I like @Guy's point about how Harmony gives us a view of Cordelia unchanged. But the repetition in her story and the disregard for her actions by the group is just tedious for me. There is a chicken and egg uncertainty for me with Harmony. Do I dislike the character and not find her funny because her evil is shrugged off and this never changes, the same story plays out between her and whichever character they put her interacting with or do I not find those things funny and as dismissible as I'm supposed to because I don't like the character much? Who knows, either way it is the same end result. And as I said at the start, I know a lot of people don't feel the same and do think she is always fun to see. So that is great for them because they can feel pretty damn sure she'll be dragged back out again to repeat the story they enjoyed last time she appeared. ;D
 

Guy

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Sure I know that some characters have plot armour so that they can be used again and I like @Guy's point about how Harmony gives us a view of Cordelia unchanged. But the repetition in her story and the disregard for her actions by the group is just tedious for me. There is a chicken and egg uncertainty for me with Harmony. Do I dislike the character and not find her funny because her evil is shrugged off and this never changes, the same story plays out between her and whichever character they put her interacting with or do I not find those things funny and as dismissible as I'm supposed to because I don't like the character much? Who knows, either way it is the same end result. And as I said at the start, I know a lot of people don't feel the same and do think she is always fun to see. So that is great for them because they can feel pretty damn sure she'll be dragged back out again to repeat the story they enjoyed last time she appeared. ;D

Well... Maybe now that you've accepted that she's never going to change or go away, you might enjoy her a little more for what she is? Hopefully?
 

Mr Trick

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On the question of Cordy spareing Harmony? I can see it both ways. I can understand why she let her live and believe she would do so. But then overall I just think it may have been more progressive if she had dusted her. For one it would have been the harder choice for Cordelia and so would have been a bigger characterr moment for her. And there is something poetic about Harmony being killed by her once best friend. It would have been a logical conclusion to Harmony's arc on the show. Then again will see what I think about her in S5.;)
 

Mr Trick

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Dead End

Plot Rundown - Ever since losing his artificial hand at the hands;) of Angel, Lindsey has been feeling a void in his life. He misses being able to play guitar, but there is something more missing. At Wolfram and Hart he is competing with Lilah for a big promotion. Aiding Lindsey in this is the news from new Wolfram head that they are getting him a replacement hand. Though things go smoothly at first, something is not quite right with his replacement hand. Lindsey investigates leading him to cross paths with Angel who is investigating one of the Cordelia's visions. It turns out the old foes must work together in order to achieve their respected goals.

Highlights - The tension between Lindsey and Lilah is entertaining as always, and Romanov does a fine job at selling Lilah's paranoia. The little detail of Lindsey missing playing the guitar and then watching him rediscover it is actually touching to watch. It is part of what helps the character find his humanity. Speaking of which, Angel getting jealous of the affection Lindsey's performance at the Host's club draws is gold!:p Another highlight of course is, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL, KILL....:eek: As always the chemistry between DB and Kane is electric, and the scenes between them are always entertaining, and full of witty dialogue and in the end tragic and moving. I for one love the cheeky send off Angel gives his former foe:) Lindsey's evil hand scene when he exits the law firm is joy too, though touching Lilah on the butt was a tad sexist;)

Lowlights - The Fester Addams wannable running Wolfram and Hart in this episode is a poor Holland Manners substitute. Too many changes in persona damage the credibility of the Law Firm's threat in the early seasons. Cordy suffering because of her visions is a plot we just didn't need. It limits the character too much in this episode, and didn't engage me. Until we get to link involving Lindsey, the main investigation is a bit by the numbers. The interactions between Wes/Gunn/Angel/Cordy is too sitcomy. Unlike with the Scoobies on the other side, the writers of Angel at this point had not manged to consistently come up with engaging and crunchy dialogue for it leads.

Verdict - Not as strong as I remembered. It is of course Lindsey's episode and everything involving him pretty much hits the mark. His growth was credible, and we see the very best of Lindsey as a character and Christian Kane as an actor, and his love to hate him connection with Angel again makes for great viewing. On the other hand Cordy is sidelined by the cheap visions plot, Angel only gets interesting when he's on screen with Lindsey, Gunn and Wesley are reduced to cheap buddy comedy from the peanut gallery. Its very much an episode of two halves with just as much bad as good.

MVP - Lindsey. But Lilah does a great supporting job.

Episode Rating - 6/10

Questions for the Forum

1. Do you see Cordy's visions as a positive of negative for the character.

2. Would you have liked Lindsey to have stayed on the show longer. If so what direction would you have liked the character to take.

3. Who was your favourite boss at Wolfram and Hart.

 

Mr Trick

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40 Angel episodes down! Still more than 50 to be reviewed! As I get ready to return to these reviews you can find below my rankings and ratings so far. These might change a bit over time;)

1. Five by Five 10/10
2. Sanctuary 9/10
3. Hero 9/10
4. Reunion 8/10
5. Are You Now, or Have You Ever Been 8/10
6. Darla 8/10
7. Epiphany 8/10
8. In the Dark 8/10
9. The Shroud of Rahmon 8/10
10. Reprise 7.5/10
11. Dear Boy 7.5/10
12. Redefinition 7.5/10
13. City Of... 7.5/10
14. War Zone 7.5/10
15. Rm W/A Vu 7.5/10
16. Parting Gifts 7.5/10
17. I've Got you Under My Skin 7/10
18. Blind Date 7/10
19. Somnambulist 7/10
20. Disharmony 7/10
21. The Prodigal 7/10
22. To Shanshu in L.A. 6.5/10
23. Judgement 6.5/10
24. First Impressions 6.5/10
25. The Bachelor Party 6.5/10
26. I Will Remember You 6/10
27. The Ring 6/10
28. Dead End 6/10
29. The Trial 6/10
30. Happy Anniversary 6/10
31. Guise Will be Guise 6/10
32. Lonely Heart 6/10
33. Untouched 5/10
34. Blood Money 5/10
35. I Fall to Pieces 5/10
36. The Thin Dead Line 4/10
37. Sense & Sensitivity 4/10
38. Expecting 4/10
39. Eternity 3/10
40. She 2/10
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
Awesome! glad you're continuing the reviews!

Fuffy Baith

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40 Angel episodes down! Still more than 50 to be reviewed! As I get ready to return to these reviews you can find below my rankings and ratings so far. These might change a bit over time;)

1. Five by Five 10/10
2. Sanctuary 9/10
3. Hero 9/10
4. Reunion 8/10
5. Are You Now, or Have You Ever Been 8/10
6. Darla 8/10
7. Epiphany 8/10
8. In the Dark 8/10
9. The Shroud of Rahmon 8/10
10. Reprise 7.5/10
11. Dear Boy 7.5/10
12. Redefinition 7.5/10
13. City Of... 7.5/10
14. War Zone 7.5/10
15. Rm W/A Vu 7.5/10
16. Parting Gifts 7.5/10
17. I've Got you Under My Skin 7/10
18. Blind Date 7/10
19. Somnambulist 7/10
20. Disharmony 7/10
21. The Prodigal 7/10
22. To Shanshu in L.A. 6.5/10
23. Judgement 6.5/10
24. First Impressions 6.5/10
25. The Bachelor Party 6.5/10
26. I Will Remember You 6/10
27. The Ring 6/10
28. Dead End 6/10
29. The Trial 6/10
30. Happy Anniversary 6/10
31. Guise Will be Guise 6/10
32. Lonely Heart 6/10
33. Untouched 5/10
34. Blood Money 5/10
35. I Fall to Pieces 5/10
36. The Thin Dead Line 4/10
37. Sense & Sensitivity 4/10
38. Expecting 4/10
39. Eternity 3/10
40. She 2/10
The Shroud of Rahmon is way too high! lol. Happy Anniversary should be a bit lower as well. But other than That I think your ratings are pretty fair. I haven't seen all of Angel in a few years, but I've been listening to the Still Dead podcast, which reminds me that Angel has really good episodes, and really bad episodes. It's highs are high, but it's lows are really low. Whereas I think Buffy episodes are a bit more even overall. Can't wait to read your new reviews!
 

Mr Trick

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The Shroud of Rahmon is way too high! lol. Happy Anniversary should be a bit lower as well. But other than That I think your ratings are pretty fair. I haven't seen all of Angel in a few years, but I've been listening to the Still Dead podcast, which reminds me that Angel has really good episodes, and really bad episodes. It's highs are high, but it's lows are really low. Whereas I think Buffy episodes are a bit more even overall. Can't wait to read your new reviews!

No, no Shroud is a bloody gem I tell you! Its like Gingerbread for Buffy;) Happy Anniversary is 30 out of 40 that's pretty low:D I'll look out for that podcast. Thanks for the comments.
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
I would rather watch Gingerbread. But yea Gingerbread is the second lowest of season 3.

AnthonyCordova

modulating between criticism and reconstruction
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Sineya
No, no Shroud is a bloody gem I tell you! Its like Gingerbread for Buffy;) Happy Anniversary is 30 out of 40 that's pretty low:D I'll look out for that podcast. Thanks for the comments.

I personally think She is better than a 2 out of 10. Surely it's not the worst Angel episode. I also disagree with Fuffy: I tend to see Angel as more consistent than Buffy, yet the highs (e.g. The Body, Restless, The Gift) as much higher than anything on Angel and in a class of their own. Interesting rankings though!

(Also I agree that Shroud of Rahmon is an underrated minor gem)
 

Mr Trick

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I personally think She is better than a 2 out of 10. Surely it's not the worst Angel episode. I also disagree with Fuffy: I tend to see Angel as more consistent than Buffy, yet the highs (e.g. The Body, Restless, The Gift) as much higher than anything on Angel and in a class of their own. Interesting rankings though!

(Also I agree that Shroud of Rahmon is an underrated minor gem)

Can't agree on She I think its really boring and the story is just a really bad idea and doesn't fit the universe of Angel. Also I didn't think DB and the guest star had much chemistry. I agree with you on the contrast with Buffy. Buffy had more weaker episodes, but also had higher highs like you say.
 

Fuffy Baith

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I also disagree with Fuffy: I tend to see Angel as more consistent than Buffy, yet the highs (e.g. The Body, Restless, The Gift) as much higher than anything on Angel and in a class of their own. Interesting rankings though!
Oh no we disagree! lol. Well I think maybe we're both right. Angel has a lot of just middling episodes, but it also has some of the lowest between both shows, but a few of of the highest. Whereas I think Buffy has consistently better episodes, but also some of the worst.
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
We sometimes have contrary points of view ;)

Mr Trick

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@Fuffy Baith I know its off topic a bit but which is the episode you rank below GingerBread. I would actually put 3 or 4 below it. Deadman's Party, Beauty and Beasts and Revelations at least.
 
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I love Gingerbread! (both the episode and the baked good)
I quite like 'Shroud of Rahmon' because Angel acts a character -which is always great - and 'my teeth are sooo big. I. Am. Pleasant.'
She has to be pretty low ranking ... but - the dancing! the dancing!

I'm surprised you ranked 'Eternity' so low - I remember that as being one of the better season 1 eps (post Doyle - that is - though in fact, once he is gone, nothing will ever be good ever again.) Is that because you think the roofie making him perfectly happy is a cheat?
 

Mr Trick

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I love Gingerbread! (both the episode and the baked good)
I quite like 'Shroud of Rahmon' because Angel acts a character -which is always great - and 'my teeth are sooo big. I. Am. Pleasant.'
She has to be pretty low ranking ... but - the dancing! the dancing!

I'm surprised you ranked 'Eternity' so low - I remember that as being one of the better season 1 eps (post Doyle - that is - though in fact, once he is gone, nothing will ever be good ever again.) Is that because you think the roofie making him perfectly happy is a cheat?

Part of my love for Rahmon is how it riffs on film noir and old b-movies. Plus I like the twists in the plot.

Yeah that's pretty much why I don't like Eternity. It has some decent comedy and I like the link it makes to Hollywood. But for me was a wasted opportunity. Didn't like the one shot female either.
 

Fuffy Baith

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@Fuffy Baith I know its off topic a bit but which is the episode you rank below GingerBread. I would actually put 3 or 4 below it. Deadman's Party, Beauty and Beasts and Revelations at least.
I'd put Dead Man's Party. I like Revelations, and Beauty and the Beasts is a guilty pleasure of mine. I have a LOT of problems with it though. But I really enjoy Oz's story in that episode. As for Eternity, I find it to be boring until the last 10 minutes, but even the Angelus returning but only temporary thing doesn't really make any sense. I just mostly find it boring and bland, so it's a bad episode for those reasons. season 1 has a lot of bad episodes though.
 

Mr Trick

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Belonging

31139.jpg


Plot Rundown: The Host insists that the team investigate a Drokken demon that showed up unexpectedly at the Caritas club. Not only this but the Host is desperate for Angel and the gang to kill the demon. Meanwhile, Cordy has a vision of a girl in danger at a local library which is connected to the Drokken demon case. It turns out the case has more than a small link to the Host's past. Cordy has a nightmare shoot for a creepy advert and Gunn is called into action by his own gang to fight some vampires.

Highlights: A episode focusing on The Host/Lorne's past proved good growth for his character. I even liked the gag about why he decided not to use the Lorne name outside of his home dimension:D His character is given some much needed depth. Andy Hallett does a good job in selling Lorne's fear at his past catching up with him. Not to mention it never gets old hearing "Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan.":p That main mystery is nicely handled. And I know she's hardly in this episode, but hell yeah for the young Amy Acker making her debut as Winifred Burkle Aka "Fred":) She is going to become a major character for most of the rest of the show's run and its fair to say that most of us adore Fred:p

Lowlights: Outside of Lorne's plot there is too much going on. Things get a little messy and the other subplots don't link up too smoothly. Cordelia's acting scene is very painful and cringe worthy to watch. It damages her character a little that she doesn't stand up to the sleazy director. She should have been on Anglel's side. This is put at least partly put right later when Cordy returns to the Hotel dejected and admits that she was being demeaned. The impression I got was that she had finally come to her senses and told the director where to stick it!:D Also when you see the direction of Cordy in the coming episodes it payoffs even more. But it's still tough to watch it on its own without that context. Plus using the sleazy director gimmick was a bit cheap. Likewise I can see the link purpose of the Gunn subplot, but I just found it boring. We get more street kids stereotype. It feels tacked onto the main plot and isn't paid off as well as Cordy's plot. It felt flat. Once again there is too much goofy humor human (check out how goofy Angel has been since Disharmony). Plus the sitcom feel to the cold open dinner sequence is really corny. Three of the four lead characters (Angel, Gunn, Wesley) feel off in this one. I think the main reason for that is writer Shawn Ryan. He's one of the weaker writers on Angel (he also wrote the clunkers The Thin Dead Line and Blood Money). To be fair to Ryan he has gone on to have a credible career on television (maybe he was still raw here or maybe his style just didn't fit Angel?). On the other hand first time Angel director Turi Meyer has only 7 credits to his name with iffy results (he directed the Buffy episode "Smashed" and would direct two more Angel episodes "Offspring" and "Forgiving" more on him in future reviews then;)). The direction is just as much to blame as the writing if not more. The dimly lit fight scene shot within in a maze of palettes is a good example of this. Its looks horrible and the choice of setting and lighting makes it very hard to follow what is going.

1545094829963.jpeg

Verdict: A mess of an episode, with some poor character writing. It is at least partly saved because of the focus on Lorne and his background. Even so that is not enough to save it. It's very bland, but at least it sets up the more interesting Pylea trilogy of episodes which close out the season.

MVP: Lorne/The Host

Episode Rating: 5.5/10

Questions for the Buffy Boards

1. Would you have liked the Cordelia acting storyline to have continued post-this episode or were you happy it stopped here? (I guess besides Birthday next season).

2. With Lorne taking on a bigger role and Fred making her debut is the main cast of Angel starting to look a bit too crowded?

3. What are your thoughts on Lorne as a main cast member? Would you have preferred him to have remained a supporting character.

BTW I will review The Pylea arc all in one review and rank them as one episode. It's clearly a trilogy and will be hard for me to rate individual parts of it.

And now to the updated Angel episode list!

1. Five by Five 10/10
2. Sanctuary 9/10
3. Hero 9/10
4. Reunion 8/10
5. Are You Now, or Have You Ever Been 8/10
6. Darla 8/10
7. Epiphany 8/10
8. In the Dark 8/10
9. The Shroud of Rahmon 8/10
10. Reprise 7.5/10
11. Dear Boy 7.5/10
12. Redefinition 7.5/10
13. City Of... 7.5/10
14. War Zone 7.5/10
15. Rm W/A Vu 7.5/10
16. Parting Gifts 7.5/10
17. I've Got you Under My Skin 7/10
18. Blind Date 7/10
19. Somnambulist 7/10
20. Disharmony 7/10
21. The Prodigal 7/10
22. To Shanshu in L.A. 6.5/10
23. Judgement 6.5/10
24. First Impressions 6.5/10
25. The Bachelor Party 6.5/10
26. I Will Remember You 6/10
27. The Ring 6/10
28. Dead End 6/10
29. The Trial 6/10
30. Happy Anniversary 6/10
31. Guise Will be Guise 6/10
32. Lonely Heart 6/10
33. Belonging 5.5/10
34. Untouched 5/10
35. Blood Money 5/10
36. I Fall to Pieces 5/10
37. The Thin Dead Line 4/10
38. Sense & Sensitivity 4/10
39. Expecting 4/10
40. Eternity 3/10
41. She 2/10
 
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